Ukraine UKRAINE 2023 - Tvorchi - Heart of Steel

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[Mainshow]

GURL Who is following Jamala's new songs in the non-Russian speaker world? Loboda even got honored in Drag Race, I hear Maruv's songs everywhere in Istanbul.

You don´t hear MARUV or Jamala or Max Barskih or Loboda or anyone else from Ukraine in Central Europe.
KAZKA had a minor hit which ended up being part of a Polish BRAVO compilation.

That said, JAMALA is the one who keeps on being part of interviews, singing "1944" on TV + people remember her.

Not a single non-Eurovision-gay person in Central or Western Europe can name any of Maruv´s songs or will recognise her.
That´s my point. Jamala is known - one of the most famous figures of Ukraine (in the music industry) like it or not.

 

[Mainshow]

+ hardkiss just gave 2 huge concerts in Turkey, despite losing to Jamala in the same year

+ Tina Karol, Max Barskih, Lobodoa toured Germany

+ JINJER played huge festivals

Still, a regular German person will not remember a hardcore metal band from Ukraine or Tina Karol whose concerts might have been sold out (probably due to diaspora) whilst a regular German citizen of German ethnicity still remembers "1944"/Jamala.

 

[hijirio]

You don´t hear MARUV or Jamala or Max Barskih or Loboda or anyone else from Ukraine in Central Europe.
KAZKA had a minor hit which ended up being part of a Polish BRAVO compilation.

That said, JAMALA is the one who keeps on being part of interviews, singing "1944" on TV + people remember her.

Not a single non-Eurovision-gay person in Central or Western Europe can name any of Maruv´s songs or will recognise her.
That´s my point. Jamala is known - one of the most famous figures of Ukraine (in the music industry) like it or not.

KAZKA's hit was also aired in Turkish music channels all over, it was very popular.
Maybe Maruv and Loboda don't appeal to Central Europe, but they are very popular here from my perspective.

 

[Mainshow]

KAZKA's hit was also aired in Turkish music channels all over, it was very popular.
Maybe Maruv and Loboda don't appeal to Central Europe, but they are very popular here from my perspective.

Maybe because of Russians?

I also heard their songs in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Cyprus.

But again radio success /=/ success =/= popularity =/= success at Eurovision =/= quality

It´s like all the Turkish singers who are "successful" in Germany because their music got played at kebab restaurants and they play concerts in almost each and every German town and you still have the "occassional" hits which happen every other year (like Tarkan, Mustafa Sandal)

 

[hijirio]

Maybe because of Russians?

I also heard their songs in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Cyprus.

It´s like all the Turkish singers who are "successful" in Germany because their music got played at kebab restaurants and they play concerts in almost each and every German town

Not really, I'm talking about long before Russians arrived. I was surprised to find out that some of my friends knew Ding Dong, Novy Rim by Loboda and I heard Drunk Groove, For You, Black Water in the radio a few years back.

 

[hijirio]

Novy Rim was even impersonated by a Turkish drag queen in a show I attended.

 

[Mainshow]

Not really, I'm talking about long before Russians arrived. I was surprised to find out that some of my friends knew Ding Dong, Novy Rim by Loboda and I heard Drunk Groove, For You, Black Water in the radio a few years back.

That´s great!

But it´s really different here - we don´t hear anything from anyone who lives beyond Austria - not even the major hits from Romania (which still get played in Poland, for example).

I didn´t even want to spend so much time defending Jamala. I don´t even really like her that much. I only listen to "two songs" and deleted the rest of her discography.

I just think that she is as good and/or as useless as any other Eurovision juror - at least, she´s still "known and popular" to the rest of Europe and can contribute to follow-up singles to offer her record studio to contestants.

Other acts might be as qualified (that´s why 2 other singers also won the voting) but we should just accept the fact that from the given choises, she was the 2nd most popular one - and it´s not like only Eurovision fans from Ukraine took part in it and that´s enough "proof" that she´s still liked/known/popular in Ukraine + she had a few minor hits on Ukrainian radio past-1944.

 

[A-lister]

My point from the get go was that the jury should consist of members who have commercial success thus they can contribute to the selected candidate's career in the post-ESC period. (You can disagree, but this was my personal opinion that I am entitled to share freely) So, her not making music for international success is not in any way contradicting my point, if anything, is solidifying it. I also am not denying this, her music seems to be high-art and limited to certain audience, but I think the juror should be someone who can guide and help build career of the winner.

And for the millionth time almost no Eurovision acts, winners or no winners, have "international commercial success". Måneskin is literally the only one that I can think of right off my head right now coming out of the past decades, so having that as a criteria seems strange.

But if it's the only criteria you care about, then sure she shouldn't be there, frankly the jury should be empty then as no Ukrainian artist would qualify. You see how silly this would be?

Hence I talked about domestic success, which you claimed she doesn't have either? That is just untrue.

But you saying she is not aiming commercial success (thereby acknowledging her lack of this) then pointing out that Ukrainians are not using Spotify, it's not really adding up

You used Spotify streams as an argument, just saying it's not a very strong one to measure in this case as most Ukrainian acts will show low in that, even those who are successful (domestically speaking), so you need to add in other factors as well and yes, Jamala is one of their biggest domestic names if you do that.

 

[A-lister]

Not really, I'm talking about long before Russians arrived. I was surprised to find out that some of my friends knew Ding Dong, Novy Rim by Loboda and I heard Drunk Groove, For You, Black Water in the radio a few years back.

There's a big Ukrainian and russian diaspora in Turkey, especially in Istanbul, long before the war.

Like @Mainshow rightly mentioned, having concerts for diaspora groups doesn't equal international success. If that's the case then all these Balkan divas would be known by the general public in Austria and Germany, and they're not. Ask a random German (who doesn't have Balkan roots) if they ever heard of Ceca or Jelena Karleusa? Of course not.

 

[A-lister]

Anyways to close this pseudo debate, I highly doubt @hijirio cares so much about all the nobodies in other national selections' juries, yet here we are again trashing all what Ukraine is doing. Same procedure every year with some forum members in here.

Where are all the critics in other threads? You know all these selections where the juries are even unknown, let alone any inclusion of the public? Exactly, silence, debate non existing... I rest my case

 

[AlekS]

The largest mass voting in ESC history here has concluded and we love Jamala enough to make her a juror. Jamala has toured Europe this year, she performed in Istanbul, Antalya, Tbilisi. She performed at Glastonbury. She took part in Polish Dancing With the Stars. Global Citizen fest in New York. She performed online at a festival in Seoul. Currently she's touring Poland. At the opening of the largest stadium in Lithuania in October:

She has gathered more than 100 million € for Ukraine alone in 2022 Nobody else from Ukrainian performers was even close.
Her 2018 single Kryla has 7.1 million views, which is A LOT considering YT only started getting popular in Ukraine back then.
In 2018 & 2020 she gave birth to her sons. But even then she performed. She was on Ukrainian tour through 2019. Since 2019 she's been endorsed by different TV shows (esp The Voice and Dancing With the Stars).
In 2021 she left her producer who deleted all of her recent videos, so she lost those views forever. As for the most recent releases, she can afford do not make commercial music and make what she wants instead

 

[nick_idk]

If I am not mistaken, we will get the finalist's tomorrow. Here's my guess:

Lock:

1. Jerry Heil
2. Kozak Siromaha
3. Lily 45
4. Tvorchi
5.Krut'
6.Tember Blance

Likely:
7. SKYLERR
8.Demchuk

and two of MOISEI, SHY, Drevo, Tonka, Sowa, Tsyferblat, 2Tone, or Dayton. Knowing Shurov's style, I can see him gravitating towards a lot of the "indie sad boy" acts here.

- Holding out for FIINKA, but seems the Kozak will fill that category

 

[HarryUK]

Maybe Maruv and Loboda don't appeal to Central Europe, but they are very popular here from my perspective.

MARUV & LOBODA are two of my favourite Ukrainian musicians and I'm western European
I wish more people over here had taste

 

[Bmbriga]

It's Vidbir, not The Voice. Ukraine is one of the most successful countries in ESC, so they are obviously doing it right. Jamala won Eurovision and Hardkiss probably wouldn't. They are picking Eurovision song, not searching for the next big international act. And their results tell us they doing a good job with it.

Also, no person ever heard of Maruv or Loboda here. They are probably played in Turkey because of a bunch of Russian tourists. Like you can hear Serbian music played in Greece.

 

[HarryUK]

Like you can hear Serbian music played in Greece.

I can confirm I was the only Brit dancing and singing along to Loco Loco in Greece this summer

 

[Leydan]

I can confirm I was the only Brit dancing and singing along to Loco Loco in Greece this summer

Imagine being in a shop or something and hearing Loco Loco coming on. I would be deceased. UK could never.

 

[HarryUK]

Quote

Imagine being in a shop or something and hearing Loco Loco coming on. I would be deceased. UK could never.

I think the closest I’ve come to this is hearing BOTH Lesley Roy’s entries one after the other in Starbucks one morning. I was trying to gauge which barista was the gay with the aux

 

[Leydan]

Quote

I think the closest I’ve come to this is hearing BOTH Lesley Roy’s entries one after the other in Starbucks one morning. I was trying to gauge which barista was the gay with the aux

My work place would be Eurovision hits central if I had that control. And actually, I did hear Diva by Dana International on the radio the other night on the way back from the airport. Idk about you, but because it happens so rarely when a song does come up I absolutely freak and have to tell everyone a Eurovision song is playing.

 

[HarryUK]

My work place would be Eurovision hits central if I had that control. And actually, I did hear Diva by Dana International on the radio the other night on the way back from the airport. Idk about you, but because it happens so rarely when a song does come up I absolutely freak and have to tell everyone a Eurovision song is playing.

Oh absolutely! Starbucks for me seems to be the place I hear them. Both Lesley Roy songs in the Starbucks near where I work and the piano version of Storm by SuRie was playing in the Starbucks near my home - not the same day though!

 

[AlekS]

Speaking of another cool juror. The Hardkiss will tour North America and Europe next spring.
Julia has just confirmed concerts in Dublin, Barcelona and the Hague.