Ukraine UKRAINE 2023 - Tvorchi - Heart of Steel

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[A-lister]

Interesting and great pick, imo.
Music-wise, it´s quite diverse - it will be interesting if their own preferences in music will also be reflected in their voting.

Strangely, I am always skeptical of singers being judges. I much prefer music producers etc. But at least I think all of these three are "singer-songwriters" so they aren't just "passive vocals".

When I see these former talent shows participants, who maybe entered MF at some time, but never wrote, composed or produced a single song in their lives being picked for "juries" in big ESC I am always *facepalming*

 

[WhoKnows]

Strangely, I am always skeptical of singers being judges. I much prefer music producers etc. But at least I think all of these three are "singer-songwriters" so they aren't just "passive vocals".

When I see these former talent shows participants, who maybe entered MF at some time, but never wrote, composed or produced a single song in their lives being picked for "juries" in big ESC I am always *facepalming*

I agree 100%. Fortunately, in this case, all three are fairly involved in the making process aside from just providing vocals.

 

[Fierro]

Wonder why Kate scored so low...
So my guesses:

1. Taras Topolia. Huge fanbase.
2. Jamala. She was the first option in the list and many people picked her immediately because they thought they could choose 3 juries. (I thought similarly for some reason even tho I picked different option, at least I expected some confirmation dialogue and there wasn't one, my vote was just cast upon first touch).
3. The Hardkiss. Fanbase? Their fans can actually be very united when it comes to determining actions.
4. Tina Karol. Just my opinion, I think she should never be allowed to judge any ESC related activity. Only be performer (her interval act in 2022 Vidbir was amazing).
5. Dzidzio. In a vacuum I like him but not as ESC juror.
6. Kateryna Pavlenko. Maybe people think she's not experienced enough? But imo it's rather because her core fanbase didn't grew that big probably yet.
7. Zlata Ognevich. I wouldn't put her as judge too, but maybe as one time addition she'd be an interesting option. Well, she is just very kind person. I can't see her judging people.
8. Valeriy Harchyshin. Even though his band is not a noname, I just think he couldn't compete with the rest of names. Also why so random option for this poll from UABC lol?
9. K. Tomilchenko. The only one I 100% wanted to be in the jury. He did many great things for Ukraine at ESC.

 

[AlekS]

PBC has just published footage from auditions (The 1st part. Without revealing songs of course):

Kozak Siromaha performed traditional cossack dance:

Lilu45 had some uptempo bop, MusliUA were present in a form of a dancer wearing a mask. There will be 5 dancers in the final (if she qualifies), probably

 

[hijirio]

Jamala is literary one of the biggest domestic names in Ukraine, hardly a flop career.

The view counts don't seem to agree She is highly respected for bringing Ukraine a Eurovision victory, and that's pretty much it.
She also flops hard in all online music contests (also in the forum), hardly ever making it to the final or top 10.
Accept it or not, she is a one hit wonder.
And it's a shame because she has a beautiful voice.

ПОКЛИК

Jamala · EP · 2022 · 4 songs

open.spotify.com

https://www.youtube.com/c/jamalaofficial/videos

 

[Mainshow]

Forum contests are shit anyway. They didn´t even make Britney win on escunited.

 

[Looren]

Forum contests are shit anyway. They didn´t even make Britney win on escunited.

Remember how you got mad when she flopped in WV

Come back to WV Sven

 

[A-lister]

The view counts don't seem to agree She is highly respected for bringing Ukraine a Eurovision victory, and that's pretty much it.
She also flops hard in all online music contests (also in the forum), hardly ever making it to the final or top 10.
Accept it or not, she is a one hit wonder.
And it's a shame because she has a beautiful voice.

ПОКЛИК

Jamala · EP · 2022 · 4 songs

open.spotify.com

https://www.youtube.com/c/jamalaofficial/videos

Come back when you actually have some insight in the Ukrainian music market, which you clearly don't. Jamala is undoubtedly one of the biggest names there, even Ukrainians in here confirmed it, so not sure what you're trying to achieve?

Also, as already established, Jamala isn't making mainstream Pop to seek out "hits", so the numbers you use aren't saying much. Most Ukrainians don't even use Spotify so hardly any "evidence".

And again, we're talking juries in a national selection, international success is not what is relevant here (which most ESC acts don't have anyways so why holding onto that myth?), so using international forums as a measurement is very misleading.

Sure, she's not an international name (again, most ESC acts aren't), so what?

I'm not a big fan of hers (I like some of her stuff but that's it), but I don't see the point of belittle someone's success.

 

[hijirio]

Come back when you actually have some insight in the Ukrainian music market, which you clearly don't. Jamala is undoubtedly one of the biggest names there, even Ukrainians in here confirmed it, so not sure what you're trying to achieve?

Also, as already established, Jamala isn't making mainstream Pop to seek out "hits", so the numbers you use aren't saying much. Most Ukrainians don't even use Spotify so hardly any "evidence".

And again, we're talking juries in a national selection, international success is not what is relevant here (which most ESC acts don't have anyways so why holding onto that myth?), so using international forums as a measurement is very misleading.

Sure, she's not an international name (again, most ESC acts aren't), so what?

I'm not a big fan of hers (I like some of her stuff but that's it), but I don't see the point of belittle someone's success.

My point from the get go was that the jury should consist of members who have commercial success thus they can contribute to the selected candidate's career in the post-ESC period. (You can disagree, but this was my personal opinion that I am entitled to share freely) So, her not making music for international success is not in any way contradicting my point, if anything, is solidifying it. I also am not denying this, her music seems to be high-art and limited to certain audience, but I think the juror should be someone who can guide and help build career of the winner.

But you saying she is not aiming commercial success (thereby acknowledging her lack of this) then pointing out that Ukrainians are not using Spotify, it's not really adding up

 

[shameless]

Jamala is such a one hit wonder.

Sis has a great voice but is wasting her talent with mediocre boring ass songs, she would have probably NQ’ed if she participated in ESC with any song she released before and after ‘1994’.

So yeah, I get that people want her as a juror but…….. I think there should be someone with a solid career, who can also help guide the artist on post-ESC path to commercial success. Jamala should first help herself and work on her own career instead of relying on 1944 even after 7 goddamn years

Well said but technically this applies to 90% (if not more...) of all ESC winners anyways. However, with winning they all have cemented their status in pop culture for eternity (or as long as european civilization exits) and will always be associated with THAT one track that put them in spotlight (even if some of them hate that LOL). So I get why its really imppossible for most to be recognized on international markets with anything but that one song and that is already much more than a lot of other one hit wonders can dream of.

 

[Mainshow]

Jamala got her own studio; allowing(getting paid?) other Ukrainians to use it.

I think that´s already a huge advantage for someone cometing at Vidbir. If they win, Jamala can support them and letting them record new songs in her record studio + Jamala has a great network of people from the music industry (in Ukraine as well as abroad).

Please don´t think that any Eurovision entrant will suddenly become a huge international celebrity - especially if they sing in their native tongue... I don´t get this whole debate.

Jamala is not the most successful act ever.
Jamala is still a well-established, popular and succesful artist in Ukraine.
Jamala is probably one of the most popular and well-known Ukrainian acts in the world.
Jamala has connections to the music industry and she owns her own recording studio.

It´s not like Ukraine can choose from artists like Ed Sheeran, Adele or Lewis Capaldi.... and trust me... the UK won´t be getting high-profile, international stars as jurors, either... so what´s the point of this whole debate?

 

[hijirio]

Well said but technically this applies to 90% (if not more...) of all ESC winners anyways.

2000s are always being criticized but the winners of those years are actually very successful in the domestic market of their country, and have released as impactful hits after their winning entry.

Sertab Erener, Helena Paparizou, Lordi, Marija Serifovic, Dima Bilan to name a few.

 

[Mainshow]

2000s are always being criticized but the winners of those years are actually very successful in the domestic market of their country, and have released as impactful hits after their winning entry.

Sertab Erener, Helena Paparizou, Lordi, Marija Serifovic, Dima Bilan to name a few.

And some of them haven´t released any follow-up hits in their domestic markets like

Duncan Laurence, Loreen, Ell/Niki, Salvador Sobral (only his albums were successful).

 

[Mainshow]

After "1944", Jamala released 9 singles which debuted on the Ukrainian radio chart (despite being not "radio-friendly" or "commercial"/"pop" as other acts).

It´s not like she´s "unsuccessful" in what she´s been doing and she clearly had a couple of post-Eurovision "radio hits" (Ukraine doesn´t have official single charts).
One of her latest singles "Вдячна" was #12 ("1944" "only" hit #7 but it´s a "difficult" song to play on the radio).

 

[hijirio]

Jamala got her own studio; allowing(getting paid?) other Ukrainians to use it.

I think that´s already a huge advantage for someone cometing at Vidbir. If they win, Jamala can support them and letting them record new songs in her record studio + Jamala has a great network of people from the music industry (in Ukraine as well as abroad).

Please don´t think that any Eurovision entrant will suddenly become a huge international celebrity - especially if they sing in their native tongue... I don´t get this whole debate.

Jamala is not the most successful act ever.
Jamala is still a well-established, popular and succesful artist in Ukraine.
Jamala is probably one of the most popular and well-known Ukrainian acts in the world.
Jamala has connections to the music industry and she owns her own recording studio.

It´s not like Ukraine can choose from artists like Ed Sheeran, Adele or Lewis Capaldi.... and trust me... the UK won´t be getting high-profile, international stars as jurors, either... so what´s the point of this whole debate?

I don't get the relation between having a record studio and being a juror tbh.
It's not that she owns a label or something A record studio can easily be leased.

Jamala is probably one of the most popular and well-known Ukrainian acts in the world.

What makes her popular is her ESC winning entry, as I said times and again.
Loboda, Max Barskih, Tina Karol, Ani Lorak, Maruv, none of them won but they are all way more famous than Jamala.
I think having won Eurovision once should not give you the qualification to be a judge for so many consecutive years. She had the right song, she created the moment, the stars aligned and she won. But it doesn't mean she is an expert at who will bring Ukraine the best result next.

 

[hijirio]

And some of them haven´t released any follow-up hits in their domestic markets like

Duncan Laurence, Loreen, Ell/Niki, Salvador Sobral (only his albums were successful).

Yeah those are 2010s, not 2000s that I mentioned.

After the juries were involved, it all got messed up.

 

[Mainshow]

I don't get the relation between having a record studio and being a juror tbh.
It's not that she owns a label or something A record studio can easily be leased.

Jamala is probably one of the most popular and well-known Ukrainian acts in the world.
What makes her popular is her ESC winning entry, as I said times and again.
Loboda, Max Barskih, Tina Karol, Ani Lorak, Maruv, none of them won but they are all way more famous than Jamala.
I think having won Eurovision once should not give you the qualification to be a judge for so many consecutive years. She had the right song, she created the moment, the stars aligned and she won. But it doesn't mean she is an expert at who will bring Ukraine the best result next.

You said that you prefer jurors who can "contribute to a candidate´s success" - having a record stuido is a very huge part regarding contribution.
If you check X-Factor, Pop Idol or any other talent shows... you will often find jurors who aren´t singers at all - they are part of record labels and/or own recording studios in which former contestants can record songs after their participation in such talent shows.

Still, "Jamala" is more known to non-Ukrainians, non-Russian speakers in Europe than Max Barskih, Loboda, Tina Karol... and thus, Jamala might not be "more succesfull" but she´s clearly more "popular and well-known" than any of the acts.

Of course, she´s not an expert - none of these jury members are - do you think that Duncan Laurence or a British jury with an average age of 50+ is better? or Sarah Connor (who falls asleep watching Eurovision) with a huge career in her domestic market? She loved the Israel´s "Made Of Stars" the most the year she was part of the German jury.

Jamala is qualified to be a juror (if you really measure success, popularity, connections to the music market in Ukraine so that she can "contribute" to someone else´s career).
Jamala is as qualified as anyone else in the whole music industry if you just think of "taste in music" - she might be as brilliant or useless as Sarah Connor or Sertab Erener or any other musician you´ve mentioned.
I just argue that I think it´s really strange to belittle her popularity.

 

[Mainshow]

Yeah those are 2010s, not 2000s that I mentioned.

After the juries were involved, it all got messed up.

And you still compared Jamala who clearly won AFTER the juries got introduced to all of them.

 

[hijirio]

Still, "Jamala" is more known to non-Ukrainians, non-Russian speakers in Europe than Max Barskih, Loboda, Tina Karol... and thus, Jamala might not be "more succesfull" but she´s clearly more "popular and well-known" than any of the acts.

GURL Who is following Jamala's new songs in the non-Russian speaker world? Loboda even got honored in Drag Race, I hear Maruv's songs everywhere in Istanbul.

 

[hijirio]

+ hardkiss just gave 2 huge concerts in Turkey, despite losing to Jamala in the same year