SWEDEN 2012 - Loreen - Euphoria

[Matt]

Her voice was a little shaky afterwards but I also think it's forgivable and had overall all a minimum impact

 

[FallenAngelII]

I doubt that the juries will just pass over that incident and ignore it, or are even expected to. If it really was one of those snowflakes that made her cough then Loreen and her team had brought this upon themselves. They made the decision to include the snowflakes in their act, and they can be expected to have thought through and be prepared for all the side effects of it. If the snowflakes botch Loreen's performance, the team made the mistake and is responsible. It is not an unforseeable disruption that is forced upon them without their previous knowledge, like that intruder into Spain's act 2010.

So if the table made up of books that the Cypriot singer is using falls apart with her on it, that's her own fault, she brought it on herself and she should automatically get a failing grade? Any of the numerous string instruments on stage break during a performance? Jedward's fountain malfunctioning?

This was a minor setback which lead to her missing a single line due to getting a snowflake stuck in her throat. It's not gonna magically make her drop 10 spots in the jury rankings. I don't think it's gonna affect them at all. If anything, it'll impress them how quickly she recovered and shrugged it off like it was nothing.

 

[alca]

Yeah I agree! It wasn't anything. And it's not her fault that a "snowflake" got to her mouth. This shouldn't affect her.

 

[LakZaNokte]

Horatio Caine calling

it appears on that video that snowflakes are faling straight down. she should have had her mouth fully open and pointed up for that flake to fall in.sadly, I can't see what's she doing when the camera is above her (it's too dark).
ofc, there is a small possibility that 1 of those flakes still made it's way into her mouth, and as u know from my previous casses, small possiblity is still a possibility.
I blame throat dryness and all this drama around her.

*sunglasses on*

 

[Pearly]

Will vote for Sweden in the final, come on girl. You are superb

 

[demonl]

Anyone know the criteria the jury uses?

I can't see them being too hard on Sweden or Romania for a little missed line, both entries recovered and finished well.

 

[Musicosity]

So if the table made up of books that the Cypriot singer is using falls apart with her on it, that's her own fault, she brought it on herself and she should automatically get a failing grade? Any of the numerous string instruments on stage break during a performance? Jedward's fountain malfunctioning?

As a matter of fact, yes. If something gets wrong that is within the responsibility of the host, like sound or light equipment breaking down, the affected entry will surely be granted a second attempt, like Spain. But if it is within the performing group's responsibility, for example your book table breaking down and spoiling the cypriot act, could they legitimately ask for a second attempt? And would it be fair to the other groups if Cyprus is then judged not by what was performed, but what was supposed to be performed? What about an artist just forgetting a line? Can he claim he "usually does not make this mistake"? If you take the judging procedure seriously it must be based on facts and reality, and the line must be drawn somewhere. There may be official EBU regulations regarding those cases, and I would be very surprised it they take a different point from what I had outlined. But I remember an analogous case from figure skating: If a shoelace breaks, the athlete is given (IIRC) three minutes to fix it. If he fails to repair the damage in this time, he is out. And even if he succeeds, he is given a penalty deduction, because the laces are his own responsibility. How the ESC juries deal with forgotten lines etc. I don't know. They judge individually and may have more freedem in their decisions. But ignoring flaws in a performance would not be fair. Surely you'll agree that there should be a difference in judging between a well prepared and a not-so-well prepared act?

 

[FallenAngelII]

Anyone know the criteria the jury uses?

I can't see them being too hard on Sweden or Romania for a little missed line, both entries recovered and finished well.

Official guidelines are:
* Judge the song foremost, judge it on song quality.
* Song qualities include how wide of an appeal it has, whether or not it is contemporary
* Singing ability should not figure very heavily into the decision

If I recall correctly. Those are, of course, not all of the criteria. Just some.

 

[FallenAngelII]

As a matter of fact, yes. If something gets wrong that is within the responsibility of the host, like sound or light equipment breaking down, the affected entry will surely be granted a second attempt, like Spain. But if it is within the performing group's responsibility, for example your book table breaking down and spoiling the cypriot act, could they legitimately ask for a second attempt? And would it be fair to the other groups if Cyprus is then judged not by what was performed, but what was supposed to be performed? What about an artist just forgetting a line? Can he claim he "usually does not make this mistake"? If you take the judging procedure seriously it must be based on facts and reality, and the line must be drawn somewhere. There may be official EBU regulations regarding those cases, and I would be very surprised it they take a different point from what I had outlined. But I remember an analogous case from figure skating: If a shoelace breaks, the athlete is given (IIRC) three minutes to fix it. If he fails to repair the damage in this time, he is out. And even if he succeeds, he is given a penalty deduction, because the laces are his own responsibility. How the ESC juries deal with forgotten lines etc. I don't know. They judge individually and may have more freedem in their decisions. But ignoring flaws in a performance would not be fair. Surely you'll agree that there should be a difference in judging between a well prepared and a not-so-well prepared act?

How sorry, when did I say they had a right to ask for a second attempt? I said that the juries would hardly give them a hard time for it. An errant snowflake defying gravity due to random gusts of wind and getting lodged in a singer's throat is hardly due to the singer not being well-prepared enough.

 

[goroos1994]

I doubt it will make much difference. The Swedish song stands out... and it is a song contest after all!

 

[LakZaNokte]

I have to agree with Musicosity here.
in figure skating (since it's mentioned), they all know how to do all those twirls or whatever they're called. but, during competition, some of them fall, some have shaky landing etc. those juries also know that all those skaters can do it, but they didn't. and they have to judge that performance, not their supposed skills (otherwise there would be no competition)
in singing, we all know they all can sing. juries know it too. and, just like with skating, they must judge their singing on that contest. I would say the same thing if it was any other contestant here. I would know it was true if it was my contestant but I would still hope it won't matter

 

[LakZaNokte]

...and it is a song contest after all!

I have no idea what that means.
if I sang euphoria, would you be saying the same? would all those who keep repeating that line?

btw, I can't sing.

 

[goroos1994]

I have to agree with Musicosity here.
in figure skating (since it's mentioned), they all know how to do all those twirls or whatever they're called. but, during competition, some of them fall, some have shaky landing etc. those juries also know that all those skaters can do it, but they didn't. and they have to judge that performance, not their supposed skills (otherwise there would be no competition)
in singing, we all know they all can sing. juries know it too. and, just like with skating, they must judge their singing on that contest. I would say the same thing if it was any other contestant here. I would know it was true if it was my contestant but I would still hope it won't matter

What's this got to do with the contest?

The equivalent of a skater falling, would be the equivalent of a singer being pitchy.

What happened in the rehearsal was out of Loreen's control, so it should not matter.

 

[LakZaNokte]

What happened in the rehearsal was out of Loreen's control, so it should not matter.

is it fair towards other contestants who didn't make a mistake to ignore it?

p.s. this is now matter of principles for me. I would be in same discussion and with same opinion if Nina Zili caughed.

 

[Musicosity]

How sorry, when did I say they had a right to ask for a second attempt? I said that the juries would hardly give them a hard time for it. An errant snowflake defying gravity due to random gusts of wind and getting lodged in a singer's throat is hardly due to the singer not being well-prepared enough.

You brought the book table example up yourself. When it breaks, the group can hardly go on in their planned choreography. What would they do when there is no second attempt? And should the juries then ignore a completely ruined stage performance? How would they judge that? Regarding your snowflake I have already explained why I think it will be considered a mistake of Loreen's team. They did not foresee that the snowflakes could cause trouble. So one of them made her cough and drop a line. She surely will not be disqualified or placed last because of that, but out of fairness to the other groups who did not make this mistake, it should have an effect.

Another example: Jedward dropped their microphones at the end of their act before jumping into the fountain. Imagine right in the middle of the act they would keep their mics and make the jump. The water causes the mics to short out, and Jedward can no longer be heard. Your judgement? Can they claim they did not know the mics would short out?

 

[FallenAngelII]

is it fair towards other contestants who didn't make a mistake to ignore it?

p.s. this is now matter of principles for me. I would be in same discussion and with same opinion if Nina Zili caughed.

Is it fair to penalize Sweden simply because she flubbed a single line due to swallowing a snowflake?

You brought the book table example up yourself. When it breaks, the group can hardly go on in their planned choreography.

No, but according to you, that's their own fault and they should be penalized for it.

I didn't bring it up to say "They should get a second attempt". That's you reading into things.

What would they do when there is no second attempt?

Continue on like nothing's happened? According to your own logic, they took the risk themselves and they (probably) built it themselves or comissioned it. It's their own fault if it breaks.

And should the juries then ignore a completely ruined stage performance? How would they judge that? Regarding your snowflake I have already explained why I think it will be considered a mistake of Loreen's team. They did not foresee that the snowflakes could cause trouble. So one of them made her cough and drop a line. She surely will not be disqualified or placed last because of that, but out of fairness to the other groups who did not make this mistake, it should have an effect.

It's a really small problem. The "penalization" should be mininal, if any, especially since Loreen delivers one of the most flawless performances of the entire contest in terms of everything. She makes the most use of the cameras, she's among the best vocalists this year and her song is very contemporary. A single flubbed line due to a swallowed snowflake should hardly matter.

Is it "fair" to not penalize her? The better question is: Is the "mistake" serious enough to earn a penalization in the big scheme of things?

Another example: Jedward dropped their microphones at the end of their act before jumping into the fountain. Imagine right in the middle of the act they keep their mics and make the jump. The water causes the mics to short out, and Jedward can no longer be heard. Your judgement? Can they claim they did not know the mics would short out?

Thats's hardly the same thing. Dropping a microphone that isn't waterproof (and I doubt their mics aren't waterproof) into water isn't the same thing as an errant snowflake making its way into your mouth.

 

[LakZaNokte]

Is it fair to penalize Sweden simply because she flubbed a single line due to swallowing a snowflake?

pretty much, yes.
and I understand that it seems unfair to a certain point. all that effort from Sweden itself, Loreen, entire team, production, all that money. gone with the wind cause of 1 caugh. sounds stupid. but that's why live is a risk. 1000 things can go wrong.

btw, all this doesn't mean that her live performance today won't be great. and it doesn't mean that she lost ALL points with juries (if any at all). and it doesn't mean she can't win cause of 1 caugh

 

[FallenAngelII]

pretty much, yes.
and I understand that it seems unfair to a certain point. all that effort from Sweden itself, Loreen, entire team, production, all that money. gone with the wind cause of 1 caugh. sounds stupid. but that's why live is a risk. 1000 things can go wrong.

btw, all this doesn't mean that her live performance today won't be great. and it doesn't mean that she lost ALL points with juries (if any at all). and it doesn't mean she can't win cause of 1 caugh

You do realize the juries aren't instructed to judge songs and penalize them for singular mistakes that in no way represent the artists' skill, song's quality of production value of the number, right? So, no, her jury points will not have changed in any way from that one error.

 

[Raniee]

You do realize the juries aren't instructed to judge songs and penalize them for singular mistakes that in no way represent the artists' skill, song's quality of production value of the number, right? So, no, her jury points will not have changed in any way from that one error.

I hope so, FallenAngelII. You Swedes deserve this win. If I could vote, I'd vote for her a lot of times.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Anyone who knows who that guy is? He was featured several times during the interval act in the second semi-final. He's pretty cute. Was it just random that they zoomed in on him twice during the same interval act? He's Swedish and probably gay, so I have a vested interest and stalking, I mean knowing who he is. I'll even overlook the Bieberhead.

FallenAngel, I agree with you totally for perhaps the first, and only time, ever!

As for her cough, that was terrible. If it had been the televoting final it would have been overlooked, but there's a rather considerable chance the Juries will be a huge b*tch about it, after all that's what they're there for. I still wish Sweden best luck tonight, even if neither of us win it, we're sure to be together in the top 10, no?!