MOROCCO 2016 - not taking part

[A-lister]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

You can't argue with Morroco participating though, if the broadcaster wants to that's all it takes since Morroco is a member of the EBU

As I agree with Australia or China, I disagree about Morocco. Since they are member of EBU, they have every single right to join Eurovision. Even Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia, Ukraine and Russia can participate and do quite well, why not Morocco? I am unable to see any reason.

But anyway, countries such as Morocco, Qatar or Lebanon have too much things not to even broadcast the contest. So it is not even necessary to discuss about them returning.

It seems that some people make their own rules in their minds

I know they can according to the rules, does it mean I have agree with the rules though? I don't have to agree with every single thing EBU makes up, and since Australia took part those rules are irrelevant these days anyways and EBU have proven that they are willing to bend the rules if it benefits their agenda. I'm still a person with my own opinion though, people are free to disagree and like the current rules as much as they want of course, doesn't mean we all have to?

[MENTION=14118]LesterMalvo[/MENTION]

Not sure I completely got your comment? Ukraine is 100% within Europe so mentioning them in this discussion makes no sense... Russia, Azerbaijan and Georgia (+ Kazakhstan and Turkey) have all got parts within continental Europe, Armenia have now a 10 year old history of consistent participation in ESC (bar one year) and in my comment I explicitly wrote that I don't want any non-European expansion but the few non-geographical European countries that are already in and are consistent participants for years should of course be allowed to stay.

 

[Sean]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

And if Morocco had been participating since the semi-finals came in I'm sure you'd be very sad to see them leave... I don't see why you can be so inconsistent in wanting Israel in but not Morocco :?

 

[A-lister]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

And if Morocco had been participating since the semi-finals came in I'm sure you'd be very sad to see them leave... I don't see why you can be so inconsistent in wanting Israel in but not Morocco :?

Huh?

Inconsistent? Israel has been a consistent participant since the 1970's (soon 4 decades !)... and for obvious reasons they are counted as part of Europe in various international events (not just ESC, but also soccer events amongst other sport events and musical + cultural events)... but leave the latter aside, I really can't see your comparison? Morocco took part once (a good entry by the way) in the early 1980's and that was it... not really consistent?

I'm very consistent in my opinion, people are of course free to disagree with my opinion though...

I've always said that I oppose further non-European expansion, which means that the current non-geographical European countries that have been consistent participants should of course be able to still take part imo...

 

[GRE]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

Why should we care changing the opinion of one person?
Everyone is free to believe whatever they want.
Τhe rules are specific, and if Morocco wants to participate, it will.

 

[popavapeur]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

[MENTION=4544]A-lister[/MENTION] how did you take the first year of Armenia and Azerbaijan ? against/ for it? (i'm just asking, i want to know)

it seems that as they're participating for years, you're good with it, same for Israel. So if Morocco was in the contest before you were born (and still now), it'll be fine? right ? that's sounds very shaky as a reason. Maybe i misunderstood you thoughts but even if i'm right, that's your reason and it's not good or bad

btw, as they're in the EBU (along with all the south meditteranean countries) i'd like to see them participate

 

[A-lister]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

Why should we care changing the opinion of one person?
Everyone is free to believe whatever they want.
Τhe rules are specific, and if Morocco wants to participate, it will.

Apparently the opinion isn't free in here?

I'm not stupid, I know what the rules state, but we are all individuals with our own minds right? So just because there are "rules" (Hello AUSTRALIA!?!?) doesn't mean we have to agree with them right? I'm not a sheep... some rules are simply bad rules and EBU's inconsistency with inviting Australia proves that the rules are meaningless anyways...

But it's hysterical that Iraq could take part according to these "rules" but not Kazakhstan which has a geographical European part... has this map even been updated even? Seems like it's not up to date what-so-ever and especially not with the current technology in television...

 

[A-lister]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

[MENTION=4544]A-lister[/MENTION] how did you take the first year of Armenia and Azerbaijan ? against/ for it? (i'm just asking, i want to know)

it seems that as they're participating for years, you're good with it, same for Israel. So if Morocco was in the contest before you were born (and still now), it'll be fine? right ? that's sounds very shaky as a reason. Maybe i misunderstood you thoughts but even if i'm right, that's your reason and it's not good or bad

btw, as they're in the EBU (along with all the south meditteranean countries) i'd like to see them participate

I was against it at first yes... but to be fair Azerbaijan has a (small) geographical part in Europe so I guess it would be hypocritical to be against them right?

That's hypothetical of course, but I guess I would be "fine" with it (even if I would think it being a bit odd)... but that doesn't mean EBU can trick me into liking every change they do such as Australia... if they permanent Australia I won't be fine with it even if they will take part for 50 years...

 

[Sean]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

Huh?

Inconsistent? Israel has been a consistent participant since the 1970's (soon 4 decades !)... and for obvious reasons they are counted as part of Europe in various international events (not just ESC, but also soccer events amongst other sport events and musical + cultural events)... but leave the latter aside, I really can't see your comparison? Morocco took part once (a good entry by the way) in the early 1980's and that was it... not really consistent?

I'm very consistent in my opinion, people are of course free to disagree with my opinion though...

I've always said that I oppose further non-European expansion, which means that the current non-geographical European countries that have been consistent participants should of course be able to still take part imo...

My point is that if Morocco and Israel swapped places you'd be furious if Israel wanted to take part. I don't see how you can be for one country taking part but not the other if both are eligible.

 

[A-lister]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

My point is that if Morocco and Israel swapped places you'd be furious if Israel wanted to take part. I don't see how you can be for one country taking part but not the other if both are eligible.

But I already said I don't agree with the rules, and I'm not "furious" I simply don't agree with any further non-European expansion of the contest... that's just it.

Israel is a bit of a tricky one though, as pointed out previously they are actually officially considered as part of Europe in various international events due to political reasons mostly (but also geographical and cultural ones)... But that's a complete different discussion...

As for Morocco, my opinion is the same for Australia, China, Lebanon, Qatar, South Africa, Canada, USA, Brazil, New Zeeland, Egypt... well you get my point?

 

[Sean]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

But I already said I don't agree with the rules, and I'm not "furious" I simply don't agree with any further non-European expansion of the contest... that's just it.

Israel is a bit of a tricky one though, as pointed out previously they are actually officially considered as part of Europe in various international events due to political reasons mostly (but also geographical and cultural ones)... But that's a complete different discussion...

As for Morocco, my opinion is the same for Australia, China, Lebanon, Qatar, South Africa, Canada, USA, Brazil, New Zeeland, Egypt... well you get my point?

But why would it be further expansion if it's a returning country?

Personally I wouldn't see any problem with Lebanon or Egypt as they have every right to join. I've warmed towards Australia but it's a big no for all of the others... but to flat out refuse a country who has every right to come back to Eurovision just seems unfair.

 

[A-lister]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

But why would it be further expansion if it's a returning country?

Personally I wouldn't see any problem with Lebanon or Egypt as they have every right to join. I've warmed towards Australia but it's a big no for all of the others... but to flat out refuse a country who has every right to come back to Eurovision just seems unfair.

It's not as if they return after some year hiatus, they pretty much said no to it some 30 years ago after just one try...

Oh so Australia that isn't even in the EBU area is ok then? And I'm being inconsistent?

Well, that's just my opinion, unfair maybe but then again I already said I don't agree with the current rules... sure it would be "fair" according to the current rules... but since I never liked those rules then my opinion will stay the same...

 

[Sean]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

It's not as if they return after some year hiatus, they pretty much said no to it some 30 years ago after just one try...

Oh so Australia that isn't even in the EBU area is ok then? And I'm being inconsistent?

I was always quite open to the idea of Australia considering their shared history with Europe and the popularity of the contest there. China is different, I don't want to see them in as they have zero history with Eurovision.

With Morocco it is their major broadcaster saying no (and still doing so). But 2M TV have always wanted to join and they have every right to once they get EBU membership.

Maybe it is inconsistent to say I'm fine with Australia but then I've never said no to any of the countries inside the EBU area I would never say no to Egypt and then rave about how great it is having Israel or Azerbaijan.

 

[A-lister]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

I was always quite open to the idea of Australia considering their shared history with Europe and the popularity of the contest there. China is different, I don't want to see them in as they have zero history with Eurovision.

With Morocco it is their major broadcaster saying no (and still doing so). But 2M TV have always wanted to join and they have every right to once they get EBU membership.

Maybe it is inconsistent to say I'm fine with Australia but then I've never said no to any of the countries inside the EBU area I would never say no to Egypt and then rave about how great it is having Israel or Azerbaijan.

Well, so what about Kazakhstan then? They have a geographical part in Europe that is bigger than many European countries and bigger than the geographical parts of Europe than Turkey, Georgia and Azerbaijan got combined (and more)? They also showed interest in taking part...

Surely if Australia can take part, a country that is as far from Europe and the broadcasting area which apparently controls the "rules" can take part, then what about that?
Just curious...

 

[Sean]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

Well, so what about Kazakhstan then? They have a geographical part in Europe that is bigger than many European countries and bigger than the geographical parts of Europe than Turkey, Georgia and Azerbaijan got combined (and more)? They also showed interest in taking part...

Surely if Australia can take part, a country that is as far from Europe and the broadcasting area which apparently controls the "rules" can take part, then what about that?
Just curious...

I've always wanted Kazakhstan in Eurovision since they first showed interest in 2008, I think you're trying to put words into my mouth that I've never said. Anyone who meets criteria to join are welcomed by me. Australia have managed to meet some form of criteria to join as a guest so I'm happy they get to take part. We'll see what happens after that...

 

[A-lister]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

I've always wanted Kazakhstan in Eurovision since they first showed interest in 2008, I think you're trying to put words into my mouth that I've never said. Anyone who meets criteria to join are welcomed by me. Australia have managed to meet some form of criteria to join as a guest so I'm happy they get to take part. We'll see what happens after that...

No, I don't put words into your mouth, I was just being curious because according to the current criterias (that EBU don't care about anyways) they are actually NOT allowed to enter... that's why I asked this rhetorical hypothetical question... sorry for any misunderstandings...

I guess you're not one of them, but there are many who are totally fine with Australia (and even Morocco) but don't want Kazakhstan for quite dubious reasons (imo).

 

[Sean]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

No, I don't put words into your mouth, I was just being curious because according to the current criterias (that EBU don't care about anyways) they are actually NOT allowed to enter... that's why I asked this rhetorical hypothetical question... sorry for any misunderstandings...

I guess you're not one of them, but there are many who are totally fine with Australia (and even Morocco) but don't want Kazakhstan for quite dubious reasons (imo).

I don't get those people either. But with Australia in it doesn't make sense to exclude a country that even plays football in our continent from joining the EBU. I guess money is a big part of the EBU and there's little to gain from having Kazakhstan

 

[A-lister]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

I don't get those people either. But with Australia in it doesn't make sense to exclude a country that even plays football in our continent from joining the EBU. I guess money is a big part of the EBU and there's little to gain from having Kazakhstan

They are afraid Russia will get more points ... but then again to exclude a country only because it might benefit the "wrong countries" (according to some dubious thoughts) is very odd imo...

Actually, there's quite much to gain from a gas and oil country like Kazakhstan ... just look at Azerbaijan (no further comments on that)

 

[Sean]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

How rich is the Kazakh broadcaster though?

 

[DanielLuis]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

Huh?

Inconsistent? Israel has been a consistent participant since the 1970's (soon 4 decades !)... and for obvious reasons they are counted as part of Europe in various international events (not just ESC, but also soccer events amongst other sport events and musical + cultural events)... but leave the latter aside, I really can't see your comparison? Morocco took part once (a good entry by the way) in the early 1980's and that was it... not really consistent?

I'm very consistent in my opinion, people are of course free to disagree with my opinion though...

I've always said that I oppose further non-European expansion, which means that the current non-geographical European countries that have been consistent participants should of course be able to still take part imo...

But if Morroco started regularly taking part, in 30 years you'd add them to your exception list?

 

[A-lister]

Re: MOROCCO 2016

How rich is the Kazakh broadcaster though?

As rich as the state wants it to be (or let's say wants it to be regarding ESC atleast)... actually Kazakhstan as a country (I know it's irrelevant because it's the broadcaster that counts but there's no point in denying that in many countries the broadcaster is state business)... is richer (based on GDP/cap numbers) than the following ESC countries (ranked from "poorest" to "richest"); Moldova, Armenia, (Morocco), Georgia, Ukraine, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Albania, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Romania, Turkey, Croatia and Latvia .