Kazakhstan KAZAKHSTAN 2024 - not taking part

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[MopManMoss]

Is Eurovision celebration of music and diversity or democracy? Why EBU should reject authoritarian state, while they don't intervene when one broadcaster rig their own NF?

I don’t see Eurovision as a celebration of democracy but at the same time I don’t want states like Azerbaijan (an actual dictatorship) to be given legitimacy by being able to participate, Kazakhstan is a corrupt state that is not even Europe for god sake it’s 5 hours ahead of CET and not even a member of the council of Europe

 

[hijirio]

that is not even Europe for god sake it’s 5 hours ahead of CET and not even a member of the council of Europe

sounds like Australia

 

[Judas]

Breaking taboos would start legislatively. Then we can talk Eurovision.

I think the other way around. Legislative comes with demand. You can’t change something and expect everyone to be okay with it. You do it only if people demand it. First change of minds, then change of rules.

 

[MopManMoss]

sounds like Australia

I mean I’m on record multiple times saying that Australia shouldn’t be in Eurovision lol

 

[HarryUK]

I think the other way around. Legislative comes with demand. You can’t change something and expect everyone to be okay with it. You do it only if people demand it. First change of minds, then change of rules.

Well the majority of the LGBT+ community would not be OK with admitting hostile countries to the contest that they hold so close.

 

[hijirio]

sorry in advance but this thread is inevitably becoming political as every other year, so I ask for a small indulgence from the mods.

I find it very disturbing when the West preaches the East about democracy, just want to drop this here for those interested, as Azerbaijan is being mentioned here multiple times as ‘dictatorship’

And you know what? BBC did not even air this part of the interview, they also cut it on the official channel. Go on lecturing Azerbaijan about censorship and freedom of expression. Im not saying it’s a paradise, but democracy is a total nonsense, especially when mentioned by people who haven’t been any further east from Vienna (not attacking anyone personally, but generalizing)

I’m so tired or explaining this over and over, but having been to both Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan, once you get rid of your prejudices and visit there, you will see they are very European, unless what you mean by Europe ends with Vienna.

 

[A-lister]

Kazakhstan is a corrupt state that is not even Europe for god sake it’s 5 hours ahead of CET and not even a member of the council of Europe

Only they are partially in Europe... Some folks need to redo their geography classes or sue their geography teachers...

Oh and as long as Australia is in, that argument is null and void against letting Kazakhstan in.

 

[MopManMoss]

Only they are partially in Europe... Some folks need to redo their geography classes or sue their geography teachers...

Oh and as long as Australia is in, that argument is null and void against letting Kazakhstan in.

As much as I dont want them in eurovision Australia isn't an authoritarian backwards state there is not a comparison

Kazakhstan borders europe but it is not europe and neither are the Caucasus states for that matter

 

[A-lister]

As much as I dont want them in eurovision Australia isn't an authoritarian backwards state there is not a comparison

But still EBU bent backwards for them and completely disregarded all their so called "rules".

Yet there is no rule that a country entering needs to be a democracy...

Kazakhstan borders europe but it is not europe and neither are the Caucasus states for that matter

No, part of Kazakhstan is literally within geographical Europe, and so are parts of Georgia and Azerbaijan as well. Armenia on the other hand is the one that technically doesn't have any geographical European part. The geographical European part of Kazakhstan is larger than many fully European countries. That's just geographical facts whatever some think of the country being in Eurovision or not... Oh and btw being geographicallly a part of Eurovision isn't a rule either (although I personally think it should be with the exception for neighbors that politically/culturally/socially belong to Europe but that's a different discussion).

 

[MopManMoss]

But still EBU bent backwards for them and completely disregarded all their so called "rules".

Yet there is no rule that a country entering needs to be a democracy...


No, part of Kazakhstan is literally within geographical Europe, and so are parts of Georgia and Azerbaijan as well. Armenia on the other hand is the one that technically doesn't have any geographical European part. The geographical European part of Kazakhstan is larger than many fully European countries. That's just geographical facts whatever some think of the country being in Eurovision or not... Oh and btw being geographicallly a part of Eurovision isn't a rule either (although I personally think it should be with the exception for neighbors that politically/culturally/socially belong to Europe but that's a different discussion).

Kazakhstan is 95% central asian you cant call it a european country based on the very very very small part in Europe, and I know more non european nations are allowed to compete because they are EBU members (the north african states for example) that doesnt make them european

Honestly I do not even see why people want them in to begin with other than to get the numbers up

 

[Gera11]

Honestly I do not even see why people want them in to begin with other than to get the numbers up

Because their music industry is pretty amazing and they'd bring a brand new flavour to the contest.

 

[hijirio]

Well, the geographical discussion is totally non-sense here.
Europe is not even a continent, speaking with geographical facts.

Nobody questioned Cyprus' geographical location when they were admitted to the EU without an inch of territory in Europe.
The obvious subconscious thought that nobody wants to spill out here is "European = Western European, Christian and White"
We have to get rid of this mindset.
2023 anyone?

My understanding of Europe is way more loosely defined.
It's a group of various cultural spheres.
And Kazakhstan obviously belongs to the Eastern sphere along with Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova etc.
Kazakhs use marshrutka to go to work every day, they drink borsch soup, eat shashlik, they are famous for their vodka, drive lada cars, drink kvass, samovar, brutalist architecture, metro stations that look exactly the same from Kyiv to Tbilisi and Almaty and what not.
Oh but those things are not European enough for you, I guess.
How about some baguette?

Like it or not,
Ukraine, Bulgaria, Bosnia, Moldova will always have more common culture and lifestyle with Kazakh people rather than France or the UK; unless how you define lifestyle is color of the skin and religious affiliation.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk, see you in Kazakhstan 2025 thread

 

[njdevils94]

I think Kazakhstan pulled out because this year the French broadcaster rescheduled JESC starting time to 18 or 20:00 CET or something, it would be logically and ethically questionable to air a children's show at midnight local time, or force a kid to perform when it's such a late hour for their biological time.

I think this decision will not impact their enthusiasm for the adult ESC.

They still plan on showing JESC this year and once they fix the phone line situation in April 2024 then conversations will start again I'd suspect.

 

[A-lister]

Kazakhstan is 95% central asian you cant call it a european country based on the very very very small part in Europe, and I know more non european nations are allowed to compete because they are EBU members (the north african states for example) that doesnt make them european

Honestly I do not even see why people want them in to begin with other than to get the numbers up

Yet its European area alone is bigger than Greece for instance.

Well it is a European country too whether you define is as such or not. It belongs to the "Eastern Slavic/Orthodox/Ex-USSR" (whatever you want to call it) part culturally, socially and politically and has more in common with those countries than Asian ones.

 

[A-lister]

Well, the geographical discussion is totally non-sense here.
Europe is not even a continent, speaking with geographical facts.

Nobody questioned Cyprus' geographical location when they were admitted to the EU without an inch of territory in Europe.
The obvious subconscious thought that nobody wants to spill out here is "European = Western European, Christian and White"
We have to get rid of this mindset.
2023 anyone?

My understanding of Europe is way more loosely defined.
It's a group of various cultural spheres.
And Kazakhstan obviously belongs to the Eastern sphere along with Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova etc.
Kazakhs use marshrutka to go to work every day, they drink borsch soup, eat shashlik, they are famous for their vodka, drive lada cars, drink kvass, samovar, brutalist architecture, metro stations that look exactly the same from Kyiv to Tbilisi and Almaty and what not.
Oh but those things are not European enough for you, I guess.
How about some baguette?

Like it or not,
Ukraine, Bulgaria, Bosnia, Moldova will always have more common culture and lifestyle with Kazakh people rather than France or the UK; unless how you define lifestyle is color of the skin and religious affiliation.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk, see you in Kazakhstan 2025 thread

This! Alot of people who don't want Kazakhstan in are simply viewing Europe from a Western Centric lense, completely forgetting (and rightout ignoring) the diversity of this continent.

It becomes even more obvious when people promote Australia, which is almost the furtherst away one could come from mainland Europe, while still closing the door to a country that is even partly within the European continent. It frankly cultural chauvinism and borderline on racism (a term I rarely use).

 

[MopManMoss]

I will never change my mind on Australia/Israel/Azerbajian/Armenia/Georgia being in this contest they should not be in it, Kazakhstan definitely should not be in it for a multitude of reasons but I respect that others feel differently on the issue so to those people I am sorry that a theoretical ESC debut seems less likely than it did previously

 

[A-lister]

I will never change my mind on Australia/Israel/Azerbajian/Armenia/Georgia being in this contest they should not be in it, Kazakhstan definitely should not be in it for a multitude of reasons but I respect that others feel differently on the issue so to those people I am sorry that a theoretical ESC debut seems less likely than it did previously

I don't think it's about changing someone's mind, but some of the arguments in here (I am not saying from you) are just hypocritical, also at least we should state facts. Like saying that Kazakhstan only borders to Europe is factually incorrect when it's partly within the actual continent.

Out of the countries you mentioned, I only think Australia shouldn't be in. The rest are even partly within Europe or can be considered direct neighbors that belong to Europe politically, socially and culturally and compete as part of Europe in other international events as well for obvious reasons.

I do agree though that Eurovision shouldn't expand further outside its geographical borders, so for instance I don't believe in Morocco or Lebanon entering for instance.

 

[rasmuslights]

I will never change my mind on Australia/Israel/Azerbajian/Armenia/Georgia being in this contest they should not be in it, Kazakhstan definitely should not be in it for a multitude of reasons but I respect that others feel differently on the issue so to those people I am sorry that a theoretical ESC debut seems less likely than it did previously

I understand Australia and Israel (I personally don't mind them)

But the Caucasus nations compete in all European competitions and can (in theory) even join the EU. Some, for example, Georgia, have a European perspective.

 

[MopManMoss]

I don't think it's about changing someone's mind, but some of the arguments in here (I am not saying from you) are just hypocritical, also at least we should state facts. Like saying that Kazakhstan only borders to Europe is factually incorrect when it's partly within the actual continent.

Out of the countries you mentioned, I only think Australia shouldn't be in. The rest are even partly within Europe or can be considered direct neighbors that belong to Europe politically, socially and culturally and compete as part of Europe in other international events as well for obvious reasons.

I do agree though that Eurovision shouldn't expand further outside its geographical borders, so for instance I don't believe in Morocco or Lebanon entering for instance.

Cyprus isn’t technically Europe whilst a bit of Kazakhstan is but if you asked random people on the streets of Europe to name European nations what one of the two do you think would come up?

 

[MopManMoss]

Agree on the hypocrisy but though I’ve seen plenty of people that don’t want Kazakhstan in on geographic distance claims happily have Australia in which makes zero sense