KAZAKHSTAN 2016 - not taking part

[Odalis]

This mindset is close-minded and imo not what ESC should be about.

IMO but when someone gets obsessed with something to the point that's the only thing he's willing to talk about - i call it close minded.
Recently all your posts have been like this: "Ango yaddayaddayadda pro western blah blah blah juries tralalatralala" no matter what the topic was.
Can you please get your head out of the "western agenda to kill everything ethnic" and just skip that part? We've heard it so many times that we know what you're going to say next, word for word, every time, all the time. Just relax for darwin's sake xboring

 

[eerik]

EBU's pro-Western Anglo-Saxon conspiracy is so obvious!!!11 Wake up sheeple!!!111

Just look all the countries who have debuted at ESC since 2000:

Latvia
Ukraine
Albania
Andorra
Serbia
Montenegro
Bulgaria
Moldova
Armenia
Czech Republic
Georgia
Azerbaijan
San Marino
Australia

They're all English speaking Western countries!!!! All of them!!!

Oh, wait, they're not. Nevermind then.

 

[Verjamem]

I'm tired with hearing that argument "Kazakhstan? Just another possible 12 points for Russia" for 3492159847 times. We have some countries in the competition already, which give a lot of their points to Mother Russia and I'm not reading each year "Belarus/Ukraine/Azerbaijan/Latvia*/Lithuania*/Estonia*? They'll again give their 10/12 points to the Russia, why they even participate?" If you had better reasons, maybe use only them

I'm disgusted too that EBU let Australia participate in Eurovision, while they don't permit Kazakhstan to do the same. I would be angry because of that, but I know the answer. Kazakh participation wouldn't let earn so much money to Ola Sand and his team, as Australian one does. I'm sure that Astana won't get their opportunity, as long as the same people will rule the EBU. They need more open-minded "dominion" to get a chance. Turkey is not European too (if we come deep into the culture, history, feeling of Europeness etc), but Jon Ola Sand care about them. Why? Because they pay one of the biggest participation fees after Big 5 countries.



* I know that Baltic states has nothing to do with Russia (except Soviet occupation in 1944-1990s), but each of them gave most of their points to the Big Neighbour in all-time, so they're part of the USSR voting block. That's a fact, not opinion.

 

[GRE]

* I know that Baltic states has nothing to do with Russia (except Soviet occupation in 1944-1990s), but each of them gave most of their points to the Big Neighbour in all-time, so they're part of the USSR voting block. That's a fact, not opinion.

That's because many russians live there.

 

[Sammy]

This whole discussion reminds me more and more of this:

 

[John1]

I'm tired with hearing that argument "Kazakhstan? Just another possible 12 points for Russia" for 3492159847 times. We have some countries in the competition already, which give a lot of their points to Mother Russia and I'm not reading each year "Belarus/Ukraine/Azerbaijan/Latvia*/Lithuania*/Estonia*? They'll again give their 10/12 points to the Russia, why they even participate?" If you had better reasons, maybe use only them

I'm disgusted too that EBU let Australia participate in Eurovision, while they don't permit Kazakhstan to do the same. I would be angry because of that, but I know the answer. Kazakh participation wouldn't let earn so much money to Ola Sand and his team, as Australian one does. I'm sure that Astana won't get their opportunity, as long as the same people will rule the EBU. They need more open-minded "dominion" to get a chance. Turkey is not European too (if we come deep into the culture, history, feeling of Europeness etc), but Jon Ola Sand care about them. Why? Because they pay one of the biggest participation fees after Big 5 countries.



* I know that Baltic states has nothing to do with Russia (except Soviet occupation in 1944-1990s), but each of them gave most of their points to the Big Neighbour in all-time, so they're part of the USSR voting block. That's a fact, not opinion.

That's exactly the truth when somebody says that the début of Kazakhstan will allow Russia to gather another 12 pts...
'The USSR voting block' as you said is very present, but I didn't mean to criticize those countries because they have to vote with their minds, then I could also blame the Western countries with the voting block which is less present than the other one but still...

 

[Chorizo]

I'm tired with hearing that argument "Kazakhstan? Just another possible 12 points for Russia" for 3492159847 times. We have some countries in the competition already, which give a lot of their points to Mother Russia and I'm not reading each year "Belarus/Ukraine/Azerbaijan/Latvia*/Lithuania*/Estonia*? They'll again give their 10/12 points to the Russia, why they even participate?" If you had better reasons, maybe use only them

The countries you name are already participants and eligible to participate under the current rules. Being against changing the rules to let another country join is not the same as supporting to throw out a current member, which would also require changing the rules. I don't want to throw out current members but I also don't want countries like Kazakhstan to join. Why would the EBU change the rules to allow one more country from the ex-USSR to join although Eurovision isn't even popular there? This would indeed further strengthen the ex-Soviet voting block with most points going to Russia. The fact that we already have so many of these countries means that we must not let more of them join. The size of the current voting block is a good argument against increasing the size of the voting block even further. If the current voting block were smaller or if there weren't a voting block at all, Kazakhstan joining wouldn't be such a big issue.

* I know that Baltic states has nothing to do with Russia (except Soviet occupation in 1944-1990s), but each of them gave most of their points to the Big Neighbour in all-time, so they're part of the USSR voting block. That's a fact, not opinion.

The Baltic states had already been a part of Russia until the end of WWI, just like Poland, and the big problem with these countries is the large Russian minority that keeps voting for Mother Russia every single year, no matter what Russia sends to Eurovision. This kind of diaspora voting is one of the reasons why it was necessary to introduce the juries. Block voting and diaspora voting was ruining Eurovision in the 2000s. I want less of this, not more. Kazakhstan would make things worse. Fewer ex-Soviet countries would be good for the contest because of the voting patterns but throwing out existing members would be a tough decision, so we couldn't do that easily. The ex-Yugoslavian block voting was not as problematic in recent years because some of the countries from that region didn't participate for a few years. Next year they will be back to full strength, which is reason to worry. They will all give top points to each other again.

 

[blein]

I love your reasoning guys.
from to is bad ( in this case, 30% russians live in estonia and votes for Russia, because russian artists are famous in estonia. )
but
from to is good (in these cases, it clear neighborhood voting)
from to is good

No one ever booooo when gives to and visa versa

 

[AlekS]

Kazakhstan is going to use the jury all the time like San Marino because of low televoting figures
... in 2035 when they finally join as an active member?


tehDRAMA in this thread

 

[lowyby]

I love your reasoning guys.
from to is bad ( in this case, 30% russians live in estonia and votes for Russia, because russian artists are famous in estonia. )
but
from to is good (in these cases, it clear neighborhood voting)
from to is good

No one ever booooo when gives to and visa versa

THIS

People didn't boo when The Netherlands gave Belgium their 12
And people booed when Cyprus gave 10 (not 12) points to Greece...
The hypocrisy of those ogay dudes

 

[blein]

Yes... but situation is more bad.... they dont boooo ...they chear it up... I was so mad about that "our hero" "Mans" "Hero" shit when he got 12p from ..
it looked like no one wants to win... like Polina is villain... and Hero comes to save us... voting in 2015 looked like that for me... first they let russian win and in the end the hero comes ... and saves the day. JUST LISTEN WHEN LITHUANIA GIVES 12P TO LATVIA.. NO ONE CARES ABOUT LATVIA THERE.. ALL ARE HAPPY JUST BECAUSE LITHUANIA GAVE 0P TO RUSSIA AND SWEDEN TOOK THE LEAD. LATVIAN SONG WAS MUCH BETTER THAN SWEDISH SONG.. AND NO ONE CARE ABOUT IT.

 

[GWTW1939]

THIS

People didn't boo when The Netherlands gave Belgium their 12
And people booed when Cyprus gave 10 (not 12) points to Greece...The hypocrisy of those ogay dudes

The funny thing is people expect Cyprus to give Greece its 12 points, yet even when they didn't (which was pretty surprising) people STILL booed. "Ogay dudes" wouldn't be satisfied unless it was a big fat zero

 

[John1]

I do agree with the hypocritical side of those who booed Eastern countries when they gave 12p or less to their neighbours but they seem to be dumb when the Western countries gave 12 pts or less to help each other..

 

[Verjamem]

...

Actually, I'm not upset because of any of voting blocks. I get a butthurt about people, who divide some of them on "acceptable" and "unacceptable" (like case of the Kazakhstan and other former Soviet republics), so we play in the same team.

The countries you name are already participants and eligible to participate under the current rules. Being against changing the rules to let another country join is not the same as supporting to throw out a current member, which would also require changing the rules. I don't want to throw out current members but I also don't want countries like Kazakhstan to join. Why would the EBU change the rules to allow one more country from the ex-USSR to join although Eurovision isn't even popular there? This would indeed further strengthen the ex-Soviet voting block with most points going to Russia.

You write that Kazakhstan's joining wouldn't be eligible. Okay, but the question is, why? Because they aren't in a "European Broadcasting area"? European Broadcasting Union are so inconsequent in their actions (Caucasian states are clearly outside EBA's borders, but it wasn't a problem to add them) that even letting USA to be member, wouldn't change the World at all.

You also say that Eurovision is not well-known in Kazakhstan (to put it mildly) and you're quite right here. However, isn't it a EBU's aim to promote their programs and improve quality of television in countries, which are members of the union? Each state affiliated to European Broadcasting Union had to begin somewhere and probably some of them were in a as bad condition as Kazakh broadcaster at the moment, but they got their opportunity.

You already know my opinion about block voting, so I won't go tpoo deep into that. I'll only say that IMO considering some "controversial" votings as a problem is not a fully proper attitude. Eurovision Song Contest is a people's competition and that's how people votes. Of course, we can hire selected, 100% neutral people (is it even possible?) to rate songs, but will it be the same ESC as before?

Kazakhstan is going to use the jury all the time like San Marino because of low televoting figures

Some of results of jury's voting in 2015 GF

San Marino
1st - Latvia
2nd - Italy
3rd - Australia

Belarus
1st - Russia
2nd - Estonia
3rd - Belgium

Azerbaijan
1st - Russia
2nd - Georgia
3rd - Israel

Greece
1st - Italy
2nd - Cyprus
3rd - Russia

Norway
1st - Sweden
2nd - Latvia
3rd - Australia

Denmark
1st - Sweden
2nd - Australia
3rd - Russia

Iceland
1st - Sweden
2nd - Norway
3rd - Latvia

Moldova
1st - Romania
2nd - Sweden
3rd - Australia

I think I get your point, but I guess you would agree with me that juries doesn't always change the situation

 

[Brandt]

it looked like no one wants to win...

If no one wanted Russia to win, they wouldn't hit the 2nd place. It's a serious success to reach there.

 

[AlekS]

I think I get your point, but I guess you would agree with me that juries doesn't always change the situation

Russia and Sweden became #2 and #1 in the end and they had a gr8 songs Italy was the 1st in televoting so I see no crime & why does it have to change "the situation".
Romania - Moldova .... the song in Romanian/English from the popular band.
The only suspicious thing from your list is Greece-Cyprus voting.

If I like Estonian, Latvian or Moldovan song I don't wanna be blamed in dumb neighbour/block voting. I'm Ukrainian who would voted for his "neighbours" in 2015 - Latvia & Estonia. So? If I was in the jury would it be "the situation" or something? :?

I hate blind voting but it also means that everyone elses' entries weren't good enough to influence it.

 

[Verjamem]

Now I don't really understand, what did you mean by "Kazakhstan is going to use the jury all the time like San Marino because of low televoting figures ". National juries are almost the same as people behind the TVs and it's not a surprise their votes are similar.

 

[John1]

Now I don't really understand, what did you mean by "Kazakhstan is going to use the jury all the time like San Marino because of low televoting figures ". National juries are almost the same as people behind the TVs and it's not a surprise their votes are similar.

Kazakhstan won't merely use a jury instead of televote as San Marino does, that's ridiculous ! Kazakhstan is 1349191x bigger than San Marino, so that's not kinda useful...

 

[Sim]

well in Kazachstan it's 5 hours later than here.
So the final show would start at 2am and end about 5am

Don't think there will be many televoters

 

[John1]

well in Kazachstan it's 5 hours later than here.
So the final show would start at 2am and end about 5am

Don't think there will be many televoters

Australia this year ? That almost was the same hours of ESC's airing/broadcasting...