The EBU confirmed to ESCToday that under the current rules of the Eurovision Song Contest Kazakhstan is NOT ELIGIBLE to compete in Eurovision next year, thus ruling out the possibility of seeing the country debut in the competition in Stockholm. The participation of SBS and Australia at the Eurovision Song Contest is an exceptional case.
KAZAKHSTAN 2016 - not taking part
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A-lister
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Yes, case being an English-speaking, Anglo-Saxic culturally "Western" country which fits EBU's vision for Eurovision... the hypocrisy of this organization is hilarious... the fact that a country that is as far as possible from Europe can take part but a country that has a geographical European part larger than many fully European countries have says it all.
GWTW1939
Active member
It's rather funny how in the last 2/3 years they aren't even bothering to cover up what their doing. Their basically changing everything to suit their agenda and letting it all hang out 
I honestly don't know how anybody can continue to keep their head buried in the ground and claim things are better then ever. Is the denial that strong or do people secretly love it because its all pro-Western but won't openly admit it :?
I honestly don't know how anybody can continue to keep their head buried in the ground and claim things are better then ever. Is the denial that strong or do people secretly love it because its all pro-Western but won't openly admit it :?
From oikotrash: "If we consider Australian participation a controversy one, imagine what will happen with Kazakhstan entering the contest. A country not only outside Europe but deeply corrupted and without any cultural liaison with the mainstream European audience. "
I honestly see this argument the same EBU uses. "Kazakhstan is not close to the mainstream European audience" and stuff like that. So now the mainstream european audience is the western world only? So if Russia ever sends a Tuvan singer then the contest will implode because suddenly we have an entry not mainstream enough?
I honestly see this argument the same EBU uses. "Kazakhstan is not close to the mainstream European audience" and stuff like that. So now the mainstream european audience is the western world only? So if Russia ever sends a Tuvan singer then the contest will implode because suddenly we have an entry not mainstream enough?
Mickey
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Basically it's just confirmation that, while geography is no longer a Eurovision eligibility requirement, EBU membership still is (until they change their minds). While I'm by no means an EBU supporter, I don't think pro-Western bias necessarily comes into it at this stage.
Mickey
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Just went back and read previous page. Disregard that.
Chorizo
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Why would anyone from outside the ex-USSR want one more country in the contest that would give its 12 points to Russia every single year no matter what and half of the remaining points to other ex-USSR countries? That's exactly what Kazakhstan would do. If there is one thing Eurovision doesn't need, it's further strengthening the biggest existing voting block. Furthermore, unlike in Australia, the contest isn't even popular there. I cannot see any reason why Kazakhstan should be allowed to join. It's not a European country and the special circumstances that apply to Australia don't apply to Kazakhstan.
They're going to use the jurors like San Marino! They don't even have enough televoters with such tragic TV ratings
The juries don't give 12pts to Russia all the time.
Cyberbliss
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I almost completely agree with your analysis; though Kazakhstan is one of the very few "border" countries I would leave an open door for competing, it's a bridge-country across Europe and Asia (along with Lebanon, or at a broader extent Morocco). Not to mention that everyone wants Turkey back, but being Kazakhstan a pro-Russia country, and having a 26% Russian population (1 on 4 people is of Russian descent), it is somehow much more European than Turkey (in this historical period) so I wouldn't bother having a Kazakhstan delegation in ESC, if the matter is all about mentality. Of course, that should be the limit: Kazakhstan is the only ex-USSR country which would fit in ESC. Others such as Turkmenistan or Tajikistan are not even closer anymore to Russia and Europe both in mentality nor demographically so ok, Kazakhstan is the limit.
Mickey
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What's telling is that the EBU say that Kazakhstan can't enter under the "current" rules (which is true they'd need to be a member of the Council of Europe to become an active member).
However, with Australia now a permanent fixture at ESC, I still believe there has to be a new set of rules in place next year that gives some pathway for an associate member to take part. I doubt many associate members would actually be interested in taking advantage of the opportunity, but Kazakhstan seems to be among the most likely.
However, with Australia now a permanent fixture at ESC, I still believe there has to be a new set of rules in place next year that gives some pathway for an associate member to take part. I doubt many associate members would actually be interested in taking advantage of the opportunity, but Kazakhstan seems to be among the most likely.
A-lister
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Problem is that Australia isn't an EBU member, in fact they are not even eligible to be in according the current rules, so this is not even true. Associate doesn't equal actual member, but EBU bends their rules as they please to.
This is the worst argument ever. Firstly out of the two Australia is the one that is not European, not by far even (if we stick to geographical definitions). Australia is not even an eligible EBU member (only associate member), and therefor not even eligible according to the current rules (as mentioned previously).
Kazakhstan on the other hand has a geographical European part bigger than many of the fully European countries taking part, so the part "not European" is completely false, and to define Europe out from a Western European/Anglo-Saxic cultural perspective is biased and wrong since Europe is so much more than just that. Australia might be culturally western/anglo-European, but it's not a European country regardless.
To use voting patterns as an argument is weak, yes that might be the case but then what? But then again is ESC only for "western" countries or what? This mindset is close-minded and imo not what ESC should be about.
Chorizo
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The same applies to Kazakhstan. They are not a member and not eligible to join the EBU.
Geographically, most of the country is in Asia. Do you also consider Turkey a European country? I don't because only a small part of the country is in Europe and culturally it is quite different from Europe too. Turkey has the right to participate because it is within the EBA and it's an EBU member, not because it's European. Kazakhstan isn't even inside the EBA.
Australia is clearly not in Europe but Eurovision has been successful there for decades and Australia is culturally compatible with Europe, so I'm fine with their participation. Of course, others disagree with this, which is also a legitimate point of view. It's just my personal opinion that Australia's participation is justified and the EBU thinks the same (and they also think of the money, of course
). Kazakhstan is basically a Central Asian country. A small part of the country is geographically in Europe based on the arbitrary definition of the border between Europe and Asia. Geographically, it's not more European than Turkey. The reason why I support Australia and don't want Kazakhstan in the contest isn't based on the geographic position of these countries anyway. If Eurovision were as successful in Kazakhstan as it has been in Australia for a long time, the situation would be quite different.Block voting is one of the biggest problems in Eurovision, so I'm against adding countries that would be prone for. It doesn't matter where the voting blocks are. A Western or Northern voting block wouldn't be any better than the ex-Soviet or ex-Yugoslavian voting blocks we have. I don't think anyone can seriously claim that Kazakhstan wouldn't hand out top points to Russia every single year. This is reason alone for me to be against the participation of Kazakhstan. If they weren't attached to a voting block, I would be much more welcoming to them.
Mickey
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I wrote that before I saw the bit about Kazakhstan becoming an associate member (see post underneath it). Was trying to say that EBU are only breaking their rules as far as allowing associate members in, not any old country. Not relevant now.
I agree, Australia's participation is in direct contravention of the current rules and hate the EBU's disregard for their rulebook. I had quite an entertaining discussion with them about it on twitter a while back.
A-lister
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[MENTION=13781]Chorizo[/MENTION]
So what you basically say is that we can bend the rules for Eurovision if the country belongs to the Anglo-Saxic/Western European cultural sphere of countries? Regardless of the country being part of Europe or not? Europe is much more than this centric-view.
True, Kazakhstan (for some odd reason) is not within those old EBU borders, and therefor not eligible, but so is not Australia (by far) so based on that criteria (as in EBU broadcasting area), none of them should be in. Based on geographical definitions however (= Europe) then Kazakhstan has every right to be in, regardless of what people in here might think or want, it IS partly geographical European and that part (while not being the major part of the country alone) is still way bigger than many European countries.
Also, and you proved my point again, the reason why some don't want Kazakhstan but are totally ok with bending the rules for Australia, is a Western-centric world-view, I personally find it very sad how big part of what is ALSO Europe is being totally ignored and looked down at. Sorry to break it to you, but there's more to what is "European" than only British and Western European and ESC should be a contest to celebrate all Europe, not just one particular culture. Whether you like it or not, Russian (and other Eastern-Orthodox) aswell as some Turkic cultures are just as much Europe as British or French or Spanish, if you won't admit that then you don't know what Europe is in the first place.
So what you basically say is that we can bend the rules for Eurovision if the country belongs to the Anglo-Saxic/Western European cultural sphere of countries? Regardless of the country being part of Europe or not? Europe is much more than this centric-view.
True, Kazakhstan (for some odd reason) is not within those old EBU borders, and therefor not eligible, but so is not Australia (by far) so based on that criteria (as in EBU broadcasting area), none of them should be in. Based on geographical definitions however (= Europe) then Kazakhstan has every right to be in, regardless of what people in here might think or want, it IS partly geographical European and that part (while not being the major part of the country alone) is still way bigger than many European countries.
Also, and you proved my point again, the reason why some don't want Kazakhstan but are totally ok with bending the rules for Australia, is a Western-centric world-view, I personally find it very sad how big part of what is ALSO Europe is being totally ignored and looked down at. Sorry to break it to you, but there's more to what is "European" than only British and Western European and ESC should be a contest to celebrate all Europe, not just one particular culture. Whether you like it or not, Russian (and other Eastern-Orthodox) aswell as some Turkic cultures are just as much Europe as British or French or Spanish, if you won't admit that then you don't know what Europe is in the first place.
Chorizo
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Well, we cannot bend the rules but the EBU can, if doing so is popular. Australia's participation has been controversial among fans but the general audience didn't really get angry about it, did they? This is not about being Western or Eastern. It's about what is popular and makes the contest bigger and it's also about money. You have made this about West vs. East, not me. I am fine with Australia participating because of the circumstances but I also understand those who are against it. The hosts have been greeting Australia for many years and the final outcome of this was Australia actually joining the contest.
Based on the geographical position, neither Australia nor Kazakhstan would be able to participate under the current rules. The reach of the EBU doesn't extend to Kazakhstan, so if you argue in favor of including Kazakhstan that is just your personal view about how the rules should be changed. It doesn't say anywhere that being geographically within Europe gives you the right to join the EBU. The rules could be changed, of course, but the rules could also be changed in many other ways. Others argue that culturally close countries outside of Europe should be able to join too, which is another subjective view. The rules are arbitrary and could be changed, so there is no objective answer to this. I can see your point but the EBU is currently not defined as a union of all countries within Europe and the current definition also includes countries outside of Europe. Where the line is drawn is up to the EBU. As I said, supporting Australia's participation is my subjective opinion. I don't claim that there is an objective basis for this.
For me it's not about Australia being Western. I can see myself supporting non-Western countries under the right circumstances. If a country like Japan, for example, had had broadcast Eurovision for thirty years on a major channel with rather high ratings, I wouldn't treat it differently than Australia now. It's just that Australia is the only country that has done that. My biggest concern about Kazakhstan is block voting, not that it's an Eastern country. Furthermore, Eurovision isn't popular there.
GWTW1939
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Let's finish this discussion:
In case Russia wins this year, it's highly likely for Kazakhstan to participate in 2017.
I'll believe it when I see it. I have no doubt the EBU will do everything they can to prevent it and of course many fanboys will cheer them on. Judging from some posts in this thread I also have no doubt that many on this forum will join them as well. Considering how corrupt their acting, and getting away with it, the EBU can do just about anything to prevent a Russia win and people will here will support it