Italy ITALY 2021 - Måneskin - Zitti e buoni

[escYOUnited]

Sanremo 2021: Vote for YOUR favourite!

Loro non sanno di che parlo
Voi siete sporchi, fra’, di fango
Giallo di siga’ fra le dita
Io con la siga’ camminando
Scusami, ma ci credo tanto
Che posso fare questo salto
Anche se la strada è in salita
Per questo ora mi sto allenando

E buonasera signore e signori
Fuori gli attori
Vi conviene toccarvi i coglioni
Vi conviene stare zitti e buoni
Qui la gente è strana, tipo spacciatori
Troppe notti stavo chiuso fuori
Mo’ li prendo a calci, ‘sti portoni
Sguardo in alto, tipo scalatori
Quindi scusa mamma se sto sempre fuori, ma

Sono fuori di testa, ma diverso da loro
E tu sei fuori di testa, ma diversa da loro
Siamo fuori di testa, ma diversi da loro
Siamo fuori di testa, ma diversi da loro
No

Io ho scritto pagine e pagine
Ho visto sale, poi lacrime
Questi uomini in macchina
Non scalare le rapide
Scritto sopra una lapide
"In casa mia non c’è Dio"
Ma se trovi il senso del tempo
Risalirai dal tuo oblio
E non c’è vento che fermi
La naturale potenza
Dal punto giusto di vista
Del vento senti l’ebrezza
Con ali in cera alla schiena
Ricercherò quell’altezza
Se vuoi fermarmi, ritenta
Prova a tagliarmi la testa
Perché

Sono fuori di testa, ma diverso da loro
E tu sei fuori di testa, ma diversa da loro
Siamo fuori di testa, ma diversi da loro
Siamo fuori di testa, ma diversi da loro

Parla la gente, purtroppo
Parla, non sa di che cosa parla
Tu portami dove sto a galla
Che qui mi manca l’aria
E parla la gente, purtroppo
Parla, non sa di che cosa parla
Tu portami dove sto a galla
Che qui mi manca l’aria
Parla la gente, purtroppo
Parla, non sa di che cazzo parla
Tu portami dove sto a galla
Che qui mi manca l’aria

Ma sono fuori di testa, ma diverso da loro
E tu sei fuori di testa, ma diversa da loro
Siamo fuori di testa, ma diversi da loro
Siamo fuori di testa, ma diversi da loro

Noi siamo diversi da loro​

 

[A-lister]

A-lister, Sweden is unlikely to change their way of making music. It is too risky and it takes too long. It is since the days of ABBA (true gods of music) that you have stopped experimenting (perhaps, only John Lundvik dared and failed). That said, would you be ready to bring a new, soulful and captivating musical genre every year and never win?

Now let's go and see the songs that Italy has brought in recent years, yet we are accused of bringing only "old ballads":

* Madness of Love (Pop / Jazz);
* Out of Love (R&B);
* L'essenziale (Pop);
* La mia città (Pop Rock);
* Grande Amore (Classic Crossover);
* No Degree of Separation (Pop);
* Occidentali's Karma (ElectroPop);
* Non mi avete fatto niente (Folk Pop);
* Soldi (Contemporary R&B);
* Fai Rumore (Ballad).

You have to decide whether to be liked for good music or to win the contest. You have 6 ESCs won and we have 2. Better keep on your way. Unless… you don't want to steal our “Top 10” record.

Anyway, explain to me why we are admired but ... but as soon as we present a song to the ESC, hostile criticisms come out? Let's take an example, Barbara Pravi's song, in a certain sense, reflects Diodato's “Fai Rumore”. Have you seen any vehement and offensive attacks on “Voilà” this year?

Finally, we avoided giving Rancore a chance because it didn't have a high impact song like Mahmood's "Money". If we had avoided bringing Elodie it is because we would have had to deal with other disco-catchy songs and we would have been penalized for having "nothing new under the sun", we do not have strong political power (capable of bringing Benjamin Ingrosso in "Top 10 "…) And we don't sing in English. You don't have to focus only on the singers but on the strategy of our country from 2011 to today (always winning except ... when we trusted a "song for the ESC" by Michielin and a pupil of "Italian Oprah Winfrey" Maria De Filippi, or Emma Marrone) We are lucky enough to be able to fish from a basket full of alternatives and we use t

I am not entirely sure what to make out of your post, you mean that countries (including Sweden) shouldn't try different things?, that we shouldn't stay true to our music scenes and our competing acts shouldn't stay true to themselves?

Also, Melodifestivalen is NOT representative of Swedish music, which I want it to be and this is where I think we can take inspiration from Sanremo. It doesn't mean that our music will sound like yours, but that's not really the point I'm making either.

In the end of the day I think Italy is fairing pretty well in the contest, 7 times in the top. 10 the last decade (3 top. 3), so your track record is better than most countries' and obviously you're in a league of your own when it comes to the Big 5 countries and again I think it's because the entries you send are true to the artists and true to your music scene, they are not fabricated entries for the purpose of taking part in Eurovision, and this combined with general high quality is the reason to your relative success I'd argue.

I think you're being too hard on your country, where you see failure, I see success.

The only problem that I see in Sanremo is that you have a tendency of ending up with the more conventional choices (not necessarily bad ones though) when you have bolder and better options, but like I said I see changes in your selection for the better.

 

[Mainshow]

please never change. You will become my most favourite country in Eurovision (1997-202?) soon. I always think of Italy submitting high quality songs, usually timeless tracks with some other trends/styles mixed into it.

 

[hzalfa]

A-lister, Sweden is unlikely to change their way of making music. It is too risky and it takes too long. It is since the days of ABBA (true gods of music) that you have stopped experimenting (perhaps, only John Lundvik dared and failed). That said, would you be ready to bring a new, soulful and captivating musical genre every year and never win?

Now let's go and see the songs that Italy has brought in recent years, yet we are accused of bringing only "old ballads":

* Madness of Love (Pop / Jazz);
* Out of Love (R&B);
* L'essenziale (Pop);
* La mia città (Pop Rock);
* Grande Amore (Classic Crossover);
* No Degree of Separation (Pop);
* Occidentali's Karma (ElectroPop);
* Non mi avete fatto niente (Folk Pop);
* Soldi (Contemporary R&B);
* Fai Rumore (Ballad).

You have to decide whether to be liked for good music or to win the contest. You have 6 ESCs won and we have 2. Better keep on your way. Unless… you don't want to steal our “Top 10” record.

Anyway, explain to me why we are admired but ... but as soon as we present a song to the ESC, hostile criticisms come out? Let's take an example, Barbara Pravi's song, in a certain sense, reflects Diodato's “Fai Rumore”. Have you seen any vehement and offensive attacks on “Voilà” this year?

Finally, we avoided giving Rancore a chance because it didn't have a high impact song like Mahmood's "Money". If we had avoided bringing Elodie it is because we would have had to deal with other disco-catchy songs and we would have been penalized for having "nothing new under the sun", we do not have strong political power (capable of bringing Benjamin Ingrosso in "Top 10 "…) And we don't sing in English. You don't have to focus only on the singers but on the strategy of our country from 2011 to today (always winning except ... when we trusted a "song for the ESC" by Michielin and a pupil of "Italian Oprah Winfrey" Maria De Filippi, or Emma Marrone) We are lucky enough to be able to fish from a basket full of alternatives and we use t

Why is this whole discussion so full of defensive posts such as this when @A-lister wasn't attacking Sanremo to begin with? I can't remember a single discussion here or on other Eurovision websites where Italy was accused to only bring old ballads, that's a stereotype that we Italians have for Sanremo, foreigners don't really see it like this. Personally I think the criticism towards the jury is fair, if a bit misguided: it's not that the jury is biased towards old men, it's that the jury tends to be quite old fashioned + the fact that the Italian music industry is generally more male-oriented. These two things intersect during Sanremo of course, but they are definitely separate. There's also the fact that the jury is made of a "representative" sample of 300 people whose actual composition is never fully revealed (what's the age distribution? How many men and women are there? What genres do they usually listen to? All we know is that it's "representative") rather than professionals, and this inevitably leads to a bias where the people who want to be, and are, part of the Sanremo jury are people who already liked Sanremo before it started its modernization phase and thus tend to vote a lot more conservatively.

 

[A-lister]

Why is this whole discussion so full of defensive posts such as this when @A-lister wasn't attacking Sanremo to begin with? I can't remember a single discussion here or on other Eurovision websites where Italy was accused to only bring old ballads, that's a stereotype that we Italians have for Sanremo, foreigners don't really see it like this. Personally I think the criticism towards the jury is fair, if a bit misguided: it's not that the jury is biased towards old men, it's that the jury tends to be quite old fashioned + the fact that the Italian music industry is generally more male-oriented. These two things intersect during Sanremo of course, but they are definitely separate. There's also the fact that the jury is made of a "representative" sample of 300 people whose actual composition is never fully revealed (what's the age distribution? How many men and women are there? What genres do they usually listen to? All we know is that it's "representative") rather than professionals, and this inevitably leads to a bias where the people who want to be, and are, part of the Sanremo jury are people who already liked Sanremo before it started its modernization phase and thus tend to vote a lot more conservatively.

Well said and thank you for pretty much spot on understanding my points (and further explain to us outsiders a bit of how things work)!

 

[nudiecrudi]

Why is this whole discussion so full of defensive posts such as this when @A-lister wasn't attacking Sanremo to begin with? I can't remember a single discussion here or on other Eurovision websites where Italy was accused to only bring old ballads, that's a stereotype that we Italians have for Sanremo, foreigners don't really see it like this. Personally I think the criticism towards the jury is fair, if a bit misguided: it's not that the jury is biased towards old men, it's that the jury tends to be quite old fashioned + the fact that the Italian music industry is generally more male-oriented. These two things intersect during Sanremo of course, but they are definitely separate. There's also the fact that the jury is made of a "representative" sample of 300 people whose actual composition is never fully revealed (what's the age distribution? How many men and women are there? What genres do they usually listen to? All we know is that it's "representative") rather than professionals, and this inevitably leads to a bias where the people who want to be, and are, part of the Sanremo jury are people who already liked Sanremo before it started its modernization phase and thus tend to vote a lot more conservatively.

First of all nobody was attacking A-lister, we have exchanged our opinions in a very polite and friendly way and I appreciate his/her afforts to be part of this thread.
Second: About demoscopic juries, the 300 you mentioned, are selected to represent in an equal way all the music genres consumers in base of sellings, streamings and live concert partecipation. This jury isnt the same, it changes all the nights. Who decided? Who are these people? How many men and women? I dont know but usually im not the one who believes in complots or weirs mechanisms.
Third: You said that the jury is old-fashioned. Which one? The expert jury? This jury permitted to Mahmood to win. In the past we have had winners by only televoting, Marco Carta and Valerio Scanu or Povia....very questionable winners. You also know very well that SanRemo is the music festival of all the italians not only of 15-25 years old italians and the last 10 years winners represent different music tastes, from contemporary to the most classic italic ballad.These winners weren't decided by one jury but by the mix of three juries. Two very evident examples. Il Volo weren't the winners for the experts jury ( conservative) but for the public (democratic ), Francesco Gabbani wasn't the winner for the experts jury but for the public. In these cases the public awarded two completly different genres being "conservative" for il Volo and "democratic" for Gabbani.
The line-up of SanRemo2021 is very risky, I love it, and i really appreciate that Orietta Berti and The Extraliscio band are in, because even that part of italian audience, 60-80 years old, should feel themselves comfortable.

 

[JamieBrown]

I wondered what it is that I like so many italian entries in Eurovision despite them being diverse in kind of genres, but I guess I'm just a sucker for italian music and especially the italian language, which I think has to be sung in every melody. So Sanremo, alongside FdC and the german entry, will be the only NF I kinda follow this year and will listen to the entry before Eurovision starts.

And from the snippets I heard of every artist the possibility is high I'll be at least okay with the italian entry once again. Not a single artist I actually disliked.

 

[A-lister]

First of all nobody was attacking A-lister, we have exchanged our opinions in a very polite and friendly way and I appreciate his/her afforts to be part of this thread.

No, you weren't attacking me, he more pointed out that I was not attacking Sanremo, quite the opposite. The only "critique" I gave was that the juries seem to be too conservative in their choices.

So don't worry, you've been polite and it's nice to have a discussion like this, however I can't say I fully agree with your arguments though.

 

[hzalfa]

First of all nobody was attacking A-lister, we have exchanged our opinions in a very polite and friendly way and I appreciate his/her afforts to be part of this thread.
Second: About demoscopic juries, the 300 you mentioned, are selected to represent in an equal way all the music genres consumers in base of sellings, streamings and live concert partecipation. This jury isnt the same, it changes all the nights. Who decided? Who are these people? How many men and women? I dont know but usually im not the one who believes in complots or weirs mechanisms.
Third: You said that the jury is old-fashioned. Which one? The expert jury? This jury permitted to Mahmood to win. In the past we have had winners by only televoting, Marco Carta and Valerio Scanu or Povia....very questionable winners. You also know very well that SanRemo is the music festival of all the italians not only of 15-25 years old italians and the last 10 years winners represent different music tastes, from contemporary to the most classic italic ballad.These winners weren't decided by one jury but by the mix of three juries. Two very evident examples. Il Volo weren't the winners for the experts jury ( conservative) but for the public (democratic ), Francesco Gabbani wasn't the winner for the experts jury but for the public. In these cases the public awarded two completly different genres being "conservative" for il Volo and "democratic" for Gabbani.
The line-up of SanRemo2021 is very risky, I love it, and i really appreciate that Orietta Berti and The Extraliscio band are in, because even that part of italian audience, 60-80 years old, should feel themselves comfortable.

As already pointed out I don't think you were attacking A-lister personally, but I don't agree with the idea that the current jury sistem works as intended (or that the demoscopic jury isn't too old fashioned). I'm totally in favour of having juries at the festival because I clearly remember the televote-only era when the winner was whoever was the trending artist with teenage girls at the moment (usually the latest winner of Amici), and I didn't even watch Sanremo back then! You could sense how ridicolous it was just by hearing the results from the media. That said, I DO have issues with the juries, with the demoscopic jury mostly, for the reasons I have already expressed in the other post + the fact that if they REALLY are supposed to represent the general Italian population then they are completely redundant since it's now 2021 and televote is a thing that exists, I would much rather having more modern televote means since we still don't have online voting AND we have to pay for each vote, other tv shows like X Factor already had you pay only once per voting session back in 2011. Oh, and i don't think there is a conspiracy behind this jury, I just think that their tastes are not representative of the population, again for the reasons I explained in my previous post.
As for the OTHER juries, well, first of all there is no such thing as an expert jury the way you mean it; the other juries are

1. The press
2. The orchestra
3. The honor jury

The orchestra is indeed a jury of experts, but they don't judge the competing songs as we all know, only the arrangement of the covers; personally, I would love to see them take the place of the demoscopic jury. The honor jury is made of random famous people who don't need to be music experts at all, I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with them because their votes don't really count much and also, they're not always present (see last year and this year). Lastly there's the press, who I don't really see as a jury, but I guess they technically are one. They are the ones I have the most trouble figuring out because I haven't seen a definite pattern yet in how they vote, it seems almost random. It's easy to see which acts are going to do quite well with them but not the ones that are going to do EXTREMELY well. The only major problem I have with them is how powerful they become during the superfinal since they tend to all vote for the same artist and give them such a high percentage that their ranking completely nullifies the televote, it happened for two years in a row now and while I loved it when they made Mahmood win (not so much for Diodato), I don't think it should be possible.
Lastly, I agree with you about the lineup, I think Orietta Berti or someone from her generation should definitely be there, otherwise I can already see my grandmother complaining that she doesn't know who any of those singers are .

 

[nudiecrudi]

@hzalfa
I called it experts jury just to simplify.
The voting system sometimes has changed a bit, but mainly there are three components : demoscopic, honour or experts jury and public. The press and orchestra votes are mostly used for other reasons: best covers night, premio Mia Martini, best composition l, best lyrics ect ect.
You mentioned online votes. I honestly do not agree about it.
Do you imagine all Brazilians voting last year for Electra Lamborghini? Or millions of supporters voting for Ferragnez, Fedez and his wife for non Italians?
Or hordes of European ESC fans which don't know anything about Italian music and are looking for a shaking booty voiceless Diva. An example are all the discussions about the Vip Big Brother online voting, seems there are many votes coming from Brazil for a Brazilian component of the show.
Yes, it is true, X Factor Italy uses this voting system but you know that these two competitions are completely different and have a different public.

 

[hzalfa]

@hzalfa
I called it experts jury just to simplify.
The voting system sometimes has changed a bit, but mainly there are three components : demoscopic, honour or experts jury and public. The press and orchestra votes are mostly used for other reasons: best covers night, premio Mia Martini, best composition l, best lyrics ect ect.
You mentioned online votes. I honestly do not agree about it.
Do you imagine all Brazilians voting last year for Electra Lamborghini? Or millions of supporters voting for Ferragnez, Fedez and his wife for non Italians?
Or hordes of European ESC fans which don't know anything about Italian music and are looking for a shaking booty voiceless Diva. An example are all the discussions about the Vip Big Brother online voting, seems there are many votes coming from Brazil for a Brazilian component of the show.
Yes, it is true, X Factor Italy uses this voting system but you know that these two competitions are completely different and have a different public.

Yes I understand the issues. Obviously I would like a system that is safe from external influences, something like a geoblock could work since, in my experience at least, even VPNs tend not to be enough to completely circumvent them. I just don't like having to pay for voting when there are other alternatives offered by modern technologies. As for the X Factor thing I wasn't talking about online voting, but how in standard SMS voting you just needed to pay only the first vote of the voting session, rather than having to pay for each vote separately, and that is obviously much better.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Let's leave aside the considerations on Sanremo and its jury or on the Melodiefestivalen, can't we enjoy good music all together? I want to give you a list of songs to listen to. The Italians obviously know Ligabue well, but I don't know if he is also known outside our national borders. Ligabue, as a true protester, has always refused to go and compete in Sanremo.

1) "Quando canterai la tua canzone": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0XnkMpcMVU&list=OLAK5uy_ktS-Y1ZYUQGLOPqGjXLV9LtGslCpjURMw

2) "La linea sottile": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R50ycjb0bHs

3) "Nel tempo": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MarOBtYEIjE

4) "Ci sei sempre stata": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYrZ8F7v2OU&list=OLAK5uy_ktS-Y1ZYUQGLOPqGjXLV9LtGslCpjURMw&index=4

5) "La verità è una scelta": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ354F3by44&list=OLAK5uy_ktS-Y1ZYUQGLOPqGjXLV9LtGslCpjURMw&index=5

6) "Caro il mio Francesco": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bIZbw3-1l8&list=OLAK5uy_ktS-Y1ZYUQGLOPqGjXLV9LtGslCpjURMw&index=6

7) "Atto di fede": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wndWLglURVQ&list=OLAK5uy_ktS-Y1ZYUQGLOPqGjXLV9LtGslCpjURMw&index=7

8) "Un colpo all'anima": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIfoWnH7QhQ&list=OLAK5uy_ktS-Y1ZYUQGLOPqGjXLV9LtGslCpjURMw&index=8

9) "Il peso della valigia": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ER3SnabAJQ&list=OLAK5uy_ktS-Y1ZYUQGLOPqGjXLV9LtGslCpjURMw&index=9

10) "Taca banda": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fz_XKQFGjc&list=OLAK5uy_ktS-Y1ZYUQGLOPqGjXLV9LtGslCpjURMw&index=10

11) "Quando mi vieni a prendere": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9DEEuGdJA&list=OLAK5uy_ktS-Y1ZYUQGLOPqGjXLV9LtGslCpjURMw&index=11

and....

12) "Il meglio deve ancora venire": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2AjlKwXBjs&list=OLAK5uy_ktS-Y1ZYUQGLOPqGjXLV9LtGslCpjURMw&index=12

This is only part of the amazing songs of this artist. Did you enjoy this Pop Rock trip? We always let the music do the talking!

Thanks to those who love us! I hope to introduce you to a little of our music and to discover that of your countries. It is a pleasure to be here in this forum with you!

 

[BarefootBoogaloo]

The Italians obviously know Ligabue well, but I don't know if he is also known outside our national borders.

He was recommended to me by Spotify a few years ago! I love his voice and melodies

My favorites:

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

He was recommended to me by Spotify a few years ago! I love his voice and melodies

My favorites:

Unfortunately since he no longer has long hair, like the Samson myth, he has lost some of his strength However, he is one of the greatest Italian singers: his Rock is overwhelming, the voice is enveloping and the lyrics are very beautiful and contesting. Great Spotify that introduced you to "Liga"!

 

[sucof]

24 February 2020, 10.05 pm.
Curfew and desolation!

Live webcam : https://www.skylinewebcams.com/it/webcam/italia/liguria/imperia/festival-sanremo-ariston.html

By law nothing will be mounted, neither external scenographies, nor catwalks, no public nor photographers outside, surreal compared to last year!

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Did you know that Fedez and Michielin have already sung together in the past? The beginning of their collaboration dates back to 2013 with the song "Cigno nero" (Black Swan): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd7fZTqYYmg

... and will follow in 2014 with the song "Magnifico" (Magnificent) - part of the album "Pop-Hoolista" (achieved platinum record in Italy: : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RELQXv8m_cc

"Michielin-Fedez" it is a couple of artists already tested. For Michielin it is not the first Sanremo while for Fedez it is a debut

Another curiosity ... their Sanremo song "Chiamami Per Nome" (Call Me By Name) paired with Fedez, a preview of the video was made available even before the start of the event, leading the management to summon the two artists to court for violation the rules; however, the management pardoned Fedez who will not be disqualified.

See you at the next episode of DJ Lovecraft! Up, up, hands up! Up, up, hands up! Yo baby! Yo! Yo!

 

[sucof]

on wiwibloggs there is little talk of sanremo, not even the article on the stage did, bha!
We have read 20 articles about the making of the Swedish stage!

 

[A-lister]

on wiwibloggs there is little talk of sanremo, not even the article on the stage did, bha!
We have read 20 articles about the making of the Swedish stage!

Wiwibloggs is all about their sponsors, for instance they are sponsored by Kirkorov and constantly write about the "horror team"'s music, random articles about Russian acts not really connected to Eurovision at all and of course bad gossip and crap about Ukraine and their selection...

Maybe they have some Swedish sponsors as well?

I guess RAI better starts to pay up if they want to have more articles on Wiwibloggs

 

[rasmuslights]

Did you know that Fedez and Michielin have already sung together in the past? The beginning of their collaboration dates back to 2013 with the song "Cigno nero" (Black Swan): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd7fZTqYYmg

... and will follow in 2014 with the song "Magnifico" (Magnificent) - part of the album "Pop-Hoolista" (achieved platinum record in Italy: : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RELQXv8m_cc

"Michielin-Fedez" it is a couple of artists already tested. For Michielin it is not the first Sanremo while for Fedez it is a debut

Another curiosity ... their Sanremo song "Chiamami Per Nome" (Call Me By Name) paired with Fedez, a preview of the video was made available even before the start of the event, leading the management to summon the two artists to court for violation the rules; however, the management pardoned Fedez who will not be disqualified.

See you at the next episode of DJ Lovecraft! Up, up, hands up! Up, up, hands up! Yo baby! Yo! Yo!

I knew that because I basically listen to Magnifico every single week at least 5 times hahah, and I've been doing that for about 3 months, it's such a catchy song

 

[nudiecrudi]

on wiwibloggs there is little talk of sanremo, not even the article on the stage did, bha!
We have read 20 articles about the making of the Swedish stage!

Who cares about wiwibloggs. A bunch of inadequate and superficial ''experts''.
Just happened to watch their comments about the Norwegian song on YouTube.
Simply ridiculous.
Can't take them seriously and let them being so proud to have a cameo in the trashy Fire Saga. Thanks God Italy wasn't mentioned in that garbage full of cliche.

 

[sucof]

Who cares about wiwibloggs. A bunch of inadequate and superficial ''experts''.
Just happened to watch their comments about the Norwegian song on YouTube.
Simply ridiculous.
Can't take them seriously and let them being so proud to have a cameo in the trashy Fire Saga. Thanks God Italy wasn't mentioned in that garbage full of cliche.

ale'