Israel ISRAEL 2024 - Eden Golan - Hurricane

[ESC United Mod Team]

Please keep discussion in this thread specific to Eden Golan and her song, Israel's (potential) participation in Eurovision 2024 and discussions or remarks from other countries and organisations about Israel's participation.

Any further discussion of a political or humanitarian nature not relating to specifically Israel in Eurovision 2024 needs to go into the politics sub-forum. Thank you!​

 

[han-g]

The meltdown once Israel qualifies will be something else And they are qualifying.
I would be pretty surprised if the Czech televote didn't give them 12 and that's a good headstart when only 37 points were needed to Q last year.

In one of the semis. Over in Semi 2 it was 74 points for the 10th place, so it's a bit difficult to predict what is needed

 

[empo21]

I mean it's hard to predict televote, but as many people have pointed out, Eurovision doesn't have anti-vote, so Israel will get a lot of support. Iceland with Bashar Murad might've been a designated anti-vote spot for Israel, but that is also not happening.

 

[CC92]

There was no other reading. The ebu announced of course Russia would continue to participate. Several broadcasters said not with us then and the ebu quickly uturned.

As for Germany the ebu created the big 4/5 to keep them in the competition, I highly doubt the relatively small backlash (not as many people are pro Palestinians as you seem to think, most are neutral, some are even pro israel so there would be backlash either way) and only slight increase to security risk (ukraine and Tali will both be there) would make them think keeping Germany sweet isn't worth it.

Still the official reasoning was not they had been blackmailed but that "in light of the unprecedented crisis in Ukraine, the inclusion of a Russian entry in this year’s Contest would bring the competition into disrepute." Replace "Ukraine" with "Gaza" and "Russian" with "Israeli" and it stays correct.
Again, there would be no point for the German broadcaster to pull out if the rules were such that they did not leave room for discretion. An exclusion based on that would after all not equal a finding of guilt let alone punishment.
I have no doubts that political debates and activism will overshadow musical aspects and therefore earn the contest quite bad a reputation regardless of whether or not the majority of the general public feels strongly about the conflict. On the other hand, few would raise an eyebrow (or even notice) if Israel was just plain missing.
Ukraine's participation, after winning and co-hosting, should be a quite a non-issue in the third year of the war. Tali does not represent Israel so unless she decides to act really dumb the mere fact she is Hebrew is going to be of little interest.

 

[CC92]

The meltdown once Israel qualifies will be something else And they are qualifying.
I would be pretty surprised if the Czech televote didn't give them 12 and that's a good headstart when only 37 points were needed to Q last year.

Care to elaborate?

 

[han-g]

Still the official reasoning was not they had been blackmailed but that "in light of the unprecedented crisis in Ukraine, the inclusion of a Russian entry in this year’s Contest would bring the competition into disrepute." Replace "Ukraine" with "Gaza" and "Russian" with "Israeli" and it stays correct.
Again, there would be no point for the German broadcaster to pull out if the rules were such that they did not leave room for discretion. An exclusion based on that would after all not equal a finding of guilt let alone punishment.
I have no doubts that political debates and activism will overshadow any musical aspects and therefore earn the contest quite bad a reputation regardless of whether or not the majority of the general public feels strongly about the conflict. On the other hand, few would raise an eyebrow if Israel was just missing.
Ukraine's participation, after winning and co-hosting, should be a quite a non-issue in the third year of the war. Tali does not represent Israel so unless she decides to act really dumb the mere fact she is Hebrew is going to be of little interest.

But even then they have a get out clause. Russia's attack of Ukraine was unprovoked, israel's attack of Gaza wasn't. This is mirrored in the western world reacting to russia/Ukraine as a good and evil situation but reacted to israel/palestine as a grey area situation.

I do believe Italy faced some security threat in 2022, in 2023 of course russia chose to attack the artists' home town whilst they were still on stage, Ukraine is still far from safe in this competition

Anti Jewish behaviour has been on the rise across Europe since October, it doesn't even matter if they are Israeli, pro israel or the opposite. If someone wanted to do something at eurovision they'd probably research and i don't think it would take them long to learn that tali is Israeli and has a brother in the IDF. The twitter crowd have been vocal. Now keep in mind the fact that she's Jewish is enough, this will more than paint a target on her head. And a smart person would work out she's the easier target, so I sincerely hope they are taking her security seriously.

 

[CC92]

I mean it's hard to predict televote, but as many people have pointed out, Eurovision doesn't have anti-vote, so Israel will get a lot of support. Iceland with Bashar Murad might've been a designated anti-vote spot for Israel, but that is also not happening.

How many are biased in favour of Israel to the extent they would vote for her out of sympathy? This is not the Ukraine we are talking about.

 

[CC92]

But even then they have a get out clause. Russia's attack of Ukraine was unprovoked, israel's attack of Gaza wasn't. This is mirrored in the western world reacting to russia/Ukraine as a good and evil situation but reacted to israel/palestine as a grey area situation.

I do believe Italy faced some security threat in 2022, in 2023 of course russia chose to attack the artists' home town whilst they were still on stage, Ukraine is still far from safe in this competition

Anti Jewish behaviour has been on the rise across Europe since October, it doesn't even matter if they are Israeli, pro israel or the opposite. If someone wanted to do something at eurovision they'd probably research and i don't think it would take them long to learn that tali is Israeli and has a brother in the IDF. The twitter crowd have been vocal. Now keep in mind the fact that she's Jewish is enough, this will more than paint a target on her head. And a smart person would work out she's the easier target, so I sincerely hope they are taking her security seriously.

This is just the Atlantic point of view. Others would say the reverse is true.
Fair enough, but banning the Ukraine is obviously not on the table. Also given that it's arguably going to be their first "normal" participation since 2021 targetting them will hopefully be considered even more unrewarding.
I agree about antisemitism being on the upswing; however, saying it "didn't even matter" is quite an exaggeration. Tali might be in need of extra safety measures still her ethnicity does not hurt the reputation of the contest by any manner of means.

 

[nofuxCZ]

Care to elaborate?

Czech televote was showing significant pro-Israel bias already before the events of this year. See here: https://twitter.com/dolphin_dane/status/1752077478208705003/photo/1
Unique Czech-Israeli relationship goes back to 1948 - I will not elaborate further as it is not appropriate to this part of the forum, but here is a link to learn more - https://www.jpost.com/international/the-czech-arms-that-saved-israel-650710

The most Czech televoting friendly countries (Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Moldova) are not competing in semi 2. Only Armenia and Israel are there. This positive bias will be significantly strenghtened after the events of Oct 23. It is almost impossible to have any reasonable discussion on this matter here and I expect many non-ESC fans to rally around once they find out how controversial their participation is considered in the ESC world this year. Given the low interest in ESC here, it won't take much effort to sway the outcome in their direction. So that is why I think Israel gets the Czech televote 12 this year.

 

[han-g]

This is just the Atlantic point of view. Others would say the reverse is true.
Fair enough, but banning the Ukraine is obviously not on the table. Also given that it's arguably going to be their first "normal" participation since 2021 targetting them will hopefully be considered even more unrewarding.
I agree about antisemitism being on the upswing; however, saying it "didn't even matter" is quite an exaggeration. Tali might be in need of extra safety measures still her ethnicity does not hurt the reputation of the contest by any manner of means.

I wasn't suggesting they ban Ukraine or Tali, just pointing out that both being there require extra security methods compared to 2021 and before. Does Israel being there ruin the reputation? In some countries yes, in most countries no, and in some the opposite is true (Czechia included apparently, the caucuses as well I believe mostly side with Israel as does Ukraine, so I'm not sure how that's an Atlantic position, indeed western countries near the Atlantic Ireland Portugal Spain France Belgium and the British people if not their government are more likely to be pro palestne than Eastern europe)

And yes I do think a terroist would be a little tempted by Tali because she is a jew on a international stage, the fact that she's Israeli, even more tempting, her brother is in the idf, well then now she's a very tempting target. The Israeli representative would be preferable sure, but in a pinch Tali will do. Of course I very much hope that nothing will happen, but if Tali's security is not tight then this is a big risk.

 

[empo21]

How many are biased in favour of Israel to the extent they would vote for her out of sympathy? This is not the Ukraine we are talking about.

Are you really asking that? Of course there will be people voting for Israel out of sympathy.

 

[rasmuslights]

It's very interesting to see how pro-israel people here are in contrast to Twitter. I'm neither pro-palestine nor pro-israel, if I'm being honest, both have done many things wrong.

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

It's very interesting to see how pro-israel people here are in contrast to Twitter. I'm neither pro-palestine nor pro-israel, if I'm being honest, both have done many things wrong.

Agree. And I cannot connect a war to a song contest. I tried, but I can't. Even in 2022 I had the same problem. For me a war is a war, a song contest a simple song contest. Talking about a war under a song contest topic seems to me really disjointed and I would feel extremely stupid if I posted something about the current situation between Israel and Palestine right here, because, imo, it's not the right place to do so. But that is just me being myself, I think.

 

[ArmpitOfEurope]

If this is real the ban wasnt nessecary lol ( sounds a bit like AI to me tho )

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[han-g]

How many are biased in favour of Israel to the extent they would vote for her out of sympathy? This is not the Ukraine we are talking about.

Enough to win? Probably not. Enough to qualify and get a top 10 in the final, Probably yes. The same would have been true for Iceland should Bashar have won the nf.

 

[Sammy]

If this is real the ban wasnt nessecary lol ( sounds a bit like AI to me tho )

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

that‘s supposed to be another leak of the same song …. yes - definitely AI smelly.
But I think both of them are deep-fakes.

 

[ZoboCamel]

There's a much more plausible-sounding leak on Twitter now from last year's favourite Crystal Ball (not sure I can link it here?).

Decent enough midtempo pop ballad / power ballad; as far as ESC-bubble comparisons go, the first thing that comes to mind is Israel's own NF entry Breaking My Own Walls from a couple years ago. Otherwise, Pendese from Albania's NF for 2021, or perhaps a handful of nice but generic Swedish ballads from Melfest over the years (I Will Wait, Not With Me, Fingerprints, The Silence, Never Give Up).

On quick listen, it feels like the sort of thing that'd usually end midtable. I'd say that (if the song is approved, and this is it, and Israel does go ahead and perform it) anything far outside of that result range - a top 5, an NQ, whatever - would probably come down to political bias.

Personally, I'd much prefer that Israel not take part this year, so my own bias is that I'd like to see that NQ (despite the song being vaguely up my alley and something I'd usually place just above midtable). I suspect they will be able to Q, between political support, televote-only semis and a not-terrible song... but they'd really need a political vote for this to, say, get the win, I think. It's not ESC winner material.

 

[Realest]

Hope the ESC-Fandom stays fair and dont automatically rank her last
-or even worse-
treat her as air and dont rank her at all.
I fear we will get lots of Top36-Videos this Season.

Btw. heres the Link

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https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1766731988721946986

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[njdevils94]

It's very interesting to see how pro-israel people here are in contrast to Twitter. I'm neither pro-palestine nor pro-israel, if I'm being honest, both have done many things wrong.

Twitter is not real life in any way. Its for the loudest people to voice their opinions which gets likes. There is very little nuance.

 

[HarryUK]

Okay so I actually really like that leak. I won't ghost Israel or ignore their entry this season either - but I will continue to monitor the political situation and call out as appropriate; don't mistake my liking for the song as support for the political cause.

 

[empo21]

You can tell they changed 'October Rain' to 'Hurricane'. It's also quite a basic song that relies on Eden lifting it up.