North Macedonia FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - To the sky

[MakDok]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

^ Just cut it seriously.
As soon as you hear some country won't sing in native language u weep.
And nobody gives a f'ck about native-language tbh. See last year's contest, how many songs in English went to the final/ how many in native language? Look at your own country also. Why do you think Sweden never sends something in Swedish...

It would even be foolish if Macedonia didn't go with English this year! Finally a good decision.

 

[A-lister]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

^ Just cut it seriously.
As soon as you hear some country won't sing in native language u weep.
And nobody gives a f'ck about native-language tbh. See last year's contest, how many songs in English went to the final/ how many in native language? Look at your own country also. Why do you think Sweden never sends something in Swedish...

Please don't tell me what I can say or not? I'm free to have my opinion, you're free to have yours.

Am I wrong about the fact that in some parts of Europe English is not even the second most known language? Am I wrong about the fact that the majority of ESC viewers aren't tuning into "analyze the fabulous lyrics"? I'm not...

Your question shouldn't be "how many qualified?", your question should rather be "how many entries sung in native languages entered ESC 2014 in total numbers?"... because it's pretty logical that if there are only few entries in native languages entering to begin with, there will be only few qualifications. So if anything you need to look at how big share of the total entries sung in native languages, compared to those sung in English, that actually qualified...

I'd love for Sweden to send entries in Swedish, don't blame me on that for not happening

It would even be foolish if Macedonia didn't go with English this year! Finally a good decision.

It wouldn't be foolish, but good for you if that's what you want... apparently only cheap tactics is important for you then, not whether the song is representative of your country or anything. Maybe you want it to be imported from Sweden aswell?

 

[MakDok]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

^ Stop acting like a foolish child, you know exactly what I mean. It's a fact that most countries are turning to English now in order to have success and to reach out to more countries. Maybe 10-20 years ago it was different but times change.

If you're so in love with languages I advice you to seek for such music at other places, Eurovision is not really the place where one should expect to hear native-languages these days.

 

[A-lister]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

^ Stop acting like a foolish child, you know exactly what I mean. It's a fact that most countries are turning to English now in order to have success and to reach out to more countries. Maybe 10-20 years it was different but times change.

If you're so in love with languages I advice you to seek for such music at other places, Eurovision is not really the place where one should expect to hear native-languages these days.

If you wanna have a discussion, first thing would be to not make fun of your opponent.

20 years ago there was a language rule, so obviously things were different.

It's not just about success, Eurovision is about more things than that... if everyone are just aiming at acting "Azerbaijan" and import entries from abroad with zero connection to their countries, then it would be better for the contest to end finally. Maybe you only watch it for the competition, but there are many of us who actually enjoy the music and concept aswell.

Thanx for your advice but I can handle.

 

[MakDok]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

Also I think it's wrong to call it an import/ 'cheap trick' just because a country sings in English...
So all Swedish entries the last 20 years were imports?

 

[A-lister]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

Also I think it's wrong to call it an import/ 'cheap trick' just because a country sings in English...
So all Swedish entries the last 20 years were imports?

No, but if the only aim is this hypothetical "success", then the next step is to import the song from Sweden.

No, they were all Swedish products, same cannot be said about all these entries overflooding ESC imported from mostly... well.. Sweden

 

[MakDok]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

Well in Macedonia's case they can't have 'imports' as you call it since there are strict rules authors/composers behind ESC songs have to be Macedonian etc.
I don't know about other countries.

 

[RainyWoods]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

Eurovision should be a celebration of culture and language is a part of that culture. Eventually each country will be indistinguishable if things carry on the way they are going.

Kaliopi achieved a wonderful result for Macedonia and she didn't have to sing in english to achieve that, as have many other artists recently. The problem is people jumping on the bandwagon. Some countries would rather sacrifice the sincerity of their entries by forcing english on us. Of course I don't feel this way about all entries translated to english and we haven't even heard Tijana's song yet so i'll reserve judgement but i'm a bit disappointed.

 

[A-lister]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

Eurovision should be a celebration of culture and language is a part of that culture. Eventually each country will be indistinguishable if things carry on the way they are going.

Kaliopi achieved a wonderful result for Macedonia and she didn't have to sing in english to achieve that, as have many other artists recently. The problem is people jumping on the bandwagon. Some countries would rather sacrifice the sincerity of their entries by forcing english on us. Of course I don't feel this way about all entries translated to english and we haven't even heard Tijana's song yet so i'll reserve judgement but i'm a bit disappointed.

Well said, and a plus for starting sounding like me

 

[A-lister]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

Well in Macedonia's case they can't have 'imports' as you call it since there are strict rules authors/composers behind ESC songs have to be Macedonian etc.
I don't know about other countries.

Well, if things are going to continue as they are with ESC, then those rules might disappear in some years aswell.

Atleast it's a plus that still got those rules atleast...

 

[MakDok]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

But Kaliopi's votes only came from Balkan countries and Turkey. (And 1 point from Italy).
I'm not saying language was the main reason for that but yeah...

And I can guarantee you they won't skip that author-rule. No matter if they choose to sing in English once in 10 years or not.

 

[A-lister]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

But Kaliopi's votes only came from Balkan countries and Turkey. (And 1 point from Italy).
I'm not saying language was the only reason for that but yeah...

Kaliopi is a good example that if an entry is good, it can manage on its own merits and don't have to rely on desperate translations.

Take the Icelandic entry from the same year, they were so convinced that translating to English would be such a "fab choice because more people would 'understand'"... well, the song sorta flopped while their 2013 entry that wasn't translated actually did better.

And actually, 2012 is a good example which contradicts your argument, because 6/10 entries in the top. 10 that year were atleast partly sung in native languages (although the majority of the songs entering were still in English).

 

[RainyWoods]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

Well said, and a plus for starting sounding like me

It's fun channelling you. It makes me feel importantxsnooty

I've always agreed with you regarding language though. It's just I don't hate EVERY single song that's in english and I usually get along with the english versions of songs I was fond of to begin with

 

[A-lister]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

It's fun channelling you. It makes me feel importantxsnooty

I've always agreed with you regarding language though. It's just I don't hate EVERY single song that's in english and I usually get along with the english versions of songs I was fond of to begin with

Good I can make you feel important

I don't hate all songs sung in English, and everyone who have seen my yearly rankings would realize that fact very quickly

 

[MakDok]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

And actually, 2012 is a good example which contradicts your argument, because 6/10 entries in the top. 10 that year were atleast partly sung in native languages (although the majority of the songs entering were still in English).

My main argument/point was that native language isn't very important these days and that a country choosing to sing in English once doesn't mean sh*t, import, no culture/identity.

 

[A-lister]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

My main argument/point was that native language isn't very important these days and that a country choosing to sing in English once doesn't mean sh*t, import, no culture/identity.

It may not be important, but it sure mean more than sh*t for many of us who actually LIKE the ESC concept

 

[MakDok]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

Btw: Can mods change this title already? 'Pobeda' was just an unofficial working title as posted months ago.

 

[WhoKnows]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

A-lister, put the pipe down. You're overreacting and not being fair to Macedonia. Or any country that chooses to sing in English. The cold reality is that the West and the East have been singing in English for years now. (NOTE: I don't want another semantics argument about what's technically "West" and what's "East".) The center has largely sung in their native languages. Not surprisingly, the West and the East have been getting great results, winning the contest and all that. The center has been largely ignored, to the point that many feel they should withdraw because they can't qualify. For fairness purposes, I'll admit that native language is not really important for me. English is understood by a wider audience, and the country can always find another way to represent their culture than just through the language. I understand you want to hear other languages. But what incentive do these countries have to even participate, if they're unlikely to even have a chance at the final with a native language song?

You brought up Iceland as an example of English-fication failing. Maybe that's true. But who's to say they wouldn't have done worse had they not performed in English? You can't look at the next year and say, oh they performed in Icelandic and did better so it means it's more pragmatic to sing in Icelandic. Similarly, you couldn't look at Kuula and Rockefelller Street and say, if the latter had been sung in Estonian, it would've done better. They're different songs, competing in different years. A non-English song can do well, but it almost has to be AMAZING just to compete with average songs in English.

Let's look at some past statistics. I know the difference can't be attributed solely to the language, but it's an interesting correlation.
2013 - 15/19 English songs qualified (79%); 5/14 non-English songs qualified (36%); 7/Top 10 were in English; 14/Top 20 were in English.
2012 - 13/22 English songs qualified (59%); 5/11 non-English songs qualified (45%); 5/Top 10 were in English; 11/Top 20 were in English (NOTE: I didn't count songs that were clearly bi-lingual; there were 3 bi-lingual songs in Top 10)
2011 - 17/25 English songs qualified (68%); 1/5 non-English songs qualified (20%); 7/Top 10 were in English; 15/Top 20 were in English (NOTE: again, clearly bi-lingual songs were not counted; there wasn't a single song in the Top 10 entirely in its native language)
2010 - 16/21 English songs qualified (76%); 4/11 non-English songs qualified (36%); 9/Top 10 were in English; 15/Top 20 were in English

Macedonia has only qualified once in the last six years, sending an English song just once in those years (albeit it qualified with a Macedonian song). If the alternative is them withdrawing, I'm ok with their choice to sing in English.

 

[A-lister]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

A-lister, put the pipe down.

If you're gonna start your post like this, whatever point you make after that (good or bad) makes it look less credible.

And let's not start the myth "understood by a wider audience", that's true in regards to English-speaking nations, aswell as Northern Europe and parts of Western Europe (bar France), but let's not make "universal" happening.... and again I find it interesting how people always argue that ESC is some sort of lyrical contest where people pay much attention to that aspect... I dunno, but have you taken a closer look at the lyrics in ESC? Hardly poetry...

Oh, and just as you point out, Macedonia never qualified with their English-language attempt anyways

Also, I can't argue with your statistics (although we have cases of native-language entries that would have qualified based on televotes alone but were scr*wed over by the juries), but they are just proving what's wrong with ESC and it's sad that people are more obsessed with success rather than sending genuine entries. The homogenizing of ESC is hardly a good thing

 

[MakDok]

Re: FYR MACEDONIA 2014 - Tijana Dapčević - Pobeda

Oh, and just as you point out, Macedonia never qualified with their English-language attempt anyways

What do you talk about?

2004 - Life
2007 - Make My day
2006 - Ninanajna (English except from last chorus, best place ever)