ESC - what would you improve for the future?

[tuorem]

@up

What are vote boxes?

Don't know how do you call that. In 2010 and 2011, a window was appearing during each performance to remember the phone number.

 

[AdelAdel]

Don't know how do you call that. In 2010 and 2011, a window was appearing during each performance to remember the phone number.

Oh, I didn't remember that.

Well, in 2012 they obviously had to remove them, because it was impossible to vote during the performances.

 

[94ayd]

As to the language issue, I know it's impossible but I'd suggest that mother tongues be used in the semi finals (thus almost all countries would have sung in their languages), THEN in the final, the finalists can choose either their own language or switch to English.

What about the PQs? Would it be fair if countries like & possibly always escape the situation of them (fully) performing in German and Italian respectively?

 

[tuorem]

What about the PQs? Would it be fair if countries like & possibly always escape the situation of them (fully) performing in German and Italian respectively?

What are PQs?
For the Big 5 + host, they would have the choice like all the qualifiers. But I know it's a vain idea.

 

[AdelAdel]

Hey, tuorem - regarding our Monaco discussion a few posts ago - I checked it, and it seems that not even one entrant, who represented Monaco was from Monaco - they all were French.

 

[94ayd]

What are PQs?
For the Big 5 + host, they would have the choice like all the qualifiers. But I know it's a vain idea.

PQs = prequalifiers = Big 5 + host. Sorry, we use that in NSC a lot.

 

[tuorem]

PQs = prequalifiers = Big 5 + host. Sorry, we use that in NSC a lot.

No, don't be sorry! I just didn't know this abbreviation.

 

[tuorem]

Hey, tuorem - regarding our Monaco discussion a few posts ago - I checked it, and it seems that not even one entrant, who represented Monaco was from Monaco - they all were French.

Oh that's even worse than we thought! Monaco is just a travesty, I guess it participated according to the royal family's will.

 

[AdelAdel]

Oh that's even worse than we thought! Monaco is just a travesty, I guess it participated according to the royal family's will.

I guess so... I read that many of the entrants had to actually meet with someone from the royal family before singing. Not the 1971 winner, though, as like I said, she have never been to Monaco prior to the contest
Luxembourg, however, sent about 10 entrants from their own country, but all the others were also foreign. Actually, none of the "Luxembourgish" winners were actually from Luxembourg :?

However, there were worse cases, take Switzerland for example - Celine Dion and Vanilla Ninja represented it, while having no connection with Switzerland whatsoever! They're as Swiss as I am

 

[tuorem]

I guess so... I read that many of the entrants had to actually meet with someone from the royal family before singing. Not the 1971 winner, though, as like I said, she have never been to Monaco prior to the contest
Luxembourg, however, sent about 10 entrants from their own country, but all the others were also foreign. Actually, none of the "Luxembourgish" winners were actually from Luxembourg :?

However, there were worse cases, take Switzerland for example - Celine Dion and Vanilla Ninja represented it, while having no connection with Switzerland whatsoever! They're as Swiss as I am

At least, Luxembourg tried to promote its own artists, that's the spirit! even though none of the winners weren't natives as you said. As to Switzerland, it's absolutely disappointing to see that they looked for foreign artists while they have three different cultures within their borders, with lots of artists to be revealed through Eurovision.

I acknowledge that they don't have an easy path to qualify for the final, but very often they seem to ruin their chances themselves by sending mediocre songs

 

[AdelAdel]

At least, Luxembourg tried to promote its own artists, that's the spirit! even though none of the winners weren't natives as you said. As to Switzerland, it's absolutely disappointing to see that they looked for foreign artists while they have three different cultures within their borders, with lots of artists to be revealed through Eurovision.

I acknowledge that they don't have an easy path to qualify for the final, but very often they seem to ruin their chances themselves by sending mediocre songs

Yeah, I agree. The last time Switzerland had success, was in 2005, when Vanilla Ninja represented the country. They came 8th in the final. The problem is - they are an Estonian band, and it's still mystery to me, why didn't they want to represent Estonia back then.

 

[tuorem]

Yeah, I agree. The last time Switzerland had success, was in 2005, when Vanilla Ninja represented the country. They came 8th in the final. The problem is - they are an Estonian band, and it's still mystery to me, why didn't they want to represent Estonia back then.

Yes, its is really odd. As to Vanilla Ninja, maybe they had enough taking part once. Eighth place is good, it's hard to come back and do better. By the way, is an artist allowed to represent different countries? is there a rule stating that a Eurovision entrant for Switzerland for instance cannot represent any other country in the future?

 

[AdelAdel]

Yes, its is really odd. As to Vanilla Ninja, maybe they had enough taking part once. Eighth place is good, it's hard to come back and do better. By the way, is an artist allowed to represent different countries? is there a rule stating that a Eurovision entrant for Switzerland for instance cannot represent any other country in the future?

There's no rule like that. You can be from whatever country to represent another, for example, a Chinese & Peruvian duo can represent Slovakia no problem, even if they haven't put a foot in Slovakia (hello, Monaco 1971).

Nowadays, it is problematic to get a higher place, than before. The ones that tried failed (Niamh, Dana International, Edsilia Rombley, etc.). In the past it was different, look at Udo Jurgens (winner of the 1966 contest), he participated in 1964 and received the 6th position, then in 1965 the 4th position, and in 1966 he finally won.

Vanilla Ninja is successful enough without Eurovision. Actually, I enjoy their songs

 

[Mickey]

Yes, its is really odd. As to Vanilla Ninja, maybe they had enough taking part once. Eighth place is good, it's hard to come back and do better.

They tried and failed to represent Estonia in 2003 (when they topped the phone vote, but juries didn't like them) and 2007. They've now split up, but are still trying. Lenna, the lead singer, has twice come second in the Estonian national final (2010 and 2012). I think some of the other members have also attempted to represent their homeland solo.

 

[NemesisNick]

Actually it is possible to come back and do better. Take the following artists:
Dima Bilan: Russia 2006 "Never Let You Go" 2nd, Russia 2008 "Believe" 1st
Jean Vallée: Belgium 1970 8th, Belgium 1978 2nd
Linda Martin: Ireland 1984 2nd, Ireland 1992 1st
Udo Jürgens: Austria 1964 6th, Austria 1965 4th, Austria 1966 1st (i.e. third ime lucky!)

Unfortunately a lot of repeat attempts have been placed lower.
Bob Benny: Belgium 1959 6th, Belgium 1961 15th
Charlotte Nilsson/Perrelli: Sweden 1999 1st, Sweden 2008 18th
Cliff Richard: UK 1968 2nd, UK 1973 3rd
Dana International: Israel 1998 1st, Israel 2011 (SF2 15th DNQ)
Evridiki: Cyprus 1992 11th, Cyprus 1994 11th, Cyprus 2007 (SF 15th DNQ)
Family Four: Sweden 1971 6th, Sweden 1972 13th
Gary Lux: Austria 1985 8th, Austria 1987 20th
Guy Bonnet: France 1970 4th, France 1983 8th
Ilanit: Israel 1973 4th, Israel 1977 11th
Isabelle Aubret: France 1962 1st, France 1968 3rd
Jedward: Ireland 2011 8th, Ireland 2012 19th
Katri-Helena: Finland 1979 14th, Finland 1993 17th
Niamh Kavanagh: Ireland 1993 1st, Ireland 2010 23rd
Sakis Rouvas: Greece 2004 3rd, Greece 2009 7th
Tony Wegas: Austria 1992 10th, Austria 1993 14th
Thomas Forstner: Austria 1989 5th (97 pts), Austria 1991 22nd (out of 22, nul points)
Tommy Körberg: Sweden 1969 9th, Sweden 1988 12th
Željko Joksimović: Serbia & Montenegro 2004 2nd, Serbia 2012 3rd (he deserved 2nd though, better than Russia who deserved last!)

There have been some interesting up and down performances:

Carola: Sweden 1983 3rd, Sweden 1991 1st, Sweden 2006 5th
Corry Brokken: Netherlands 1957 1st, Netherlands 1958 9th (N.B. Corry's 1956 placing for "Voorgoed Voorbij" is unknown, but obviously was below 1st).
Hot Eyes: Denmark 1984 4th, Denmark 1985 11th, Denmark 1988 3rd

By the way, I've looked at selected individual countries on eurovision.tv - due to the long winded process involved there are several countries I didn't look at so there's bound to be more artists that have entered more than once and have been placed lower on second or later attempts.

Also there's Izhar Cohen and the Alphabeta Israel 1978 1st and Izhar Cohen Israel 1985 5th. I take it that's the same Izhar Cohen both times. There must be more cases like that.

In addition there's artists that have performed as part of a group solo one year and alone another, or as part of one group one year and part of another group another, e.g. I think there was one singer who was in Co-Co in 1978 and Bucks Fizz in 1981. Obviously cases like this are difficult to spot just by looking at individual countries histories on eurovision.tv - one would need to know individual members of groups.

 

[Mickey]

Also there's Izhar Cohen and the Alphabeta Israel 1978 1st and Izhar Cohen Israel 1985 5th. I take it that's the same Izhar Cohen both times. There must be more cases like that.

Yeah, same guy. Personally I prefer his 1985 entry, even though it was almost ruined by an out of tune backing singer.

Part of the reason for second timers often doing worse, is that the reason they're invited back is that they did well before. Could you imagine the UK selecting Jemini to represent the UK again? There'll be very few, if any who go from a place at the bottom of the scoreboard to the top ten, just through lack of opportunity. There's every opportunity to do the reverse.

 

[NemesisNick]

Could you imagine the UK selecting Jemini to represent the UK again?

After Jemini's nul points in 2003, I hardly think the BBC will enter Jemini again. Has Jemini tried to enter since 2003?

There'll be very few, if any who go from a place at the bottom of the scoreboard to the top ten, just through lack of opportunity. There's every opportunity to do the reverse.

Here's one example of the above:
Jahn Teigen: Norway 1978 20th (last) with nul points, Norway 1983 9th 53 points.
Those are just his two solo entries. In between there was Jahn Teigen and Anita Skorgan Norway 1982 12th 40 points.

I haven't looked through eurovision.tv to find any other similar examples. Is Jahn Teigen the only singer to return to the ESC after coming last with nul points (either alone, with another singer or part of a group)?

 

[Mickey]

After Jemini's nul points in 2003, I hardly think the BBC will enter Jemini again. Has Jemini tried to enter since 2003?

Of course not. That was my point.

Here's one example of the above:
Jahn Teigen: Norway 1978 20th (last) with nul points, Norway 1983 9th 53 points.
Those are just his two solo entries. In between there was Jahn Teigen and Anita Skorgan Norway 1982 12th 40 points.

I haven't looked through eurovision.tv to find any other similar examples. Is Jahn Teigen the only singer to return to the ESC after coming last with nul points (either alone, with another singer or part of a group)?

Good example. I'd forgotten about him. Perhaps Jahn is an exception, as he became a sort Eddie the Eagle type folk hero in Norway after his landmark failure (the first nul pointer under the current voting system).

I read the book "Nul Points" by Tim Moore about all the nul pointers (very interesting read for any fan) and, as far as I can recall, he was the only one to return to ESC.

 

[AdelAdel]

I read the book "Nul Points" by Tim Moore about all the nul pointers (very interesting read for any fan) and, as far as I can recall, he was the only one to return to ESC.

This sounds like a cool book to read... is it available on-line?

 

[Mickey]

This sounds like a cool book to read... is it available on-line?

Nul Points: Amazon.co.uk: Tim Moore: Books