ESC 2018 General Discussion Thread

[A-lister]

Well if the Juryvoting for a Risky Entry is something like [1,8,24,23,24], the Chance is now higher that this Entry stays in the overall Jury Top10. With the previous System, such a Voting would probably end up in giving this Entry a 15th-18th Place.

This is where I don't get it, if the new system boosts the favorite of the jury, how can it suddenly help the least popular choices of that jury in the meantime? It doesn't fit, or people simply don't get the new system and say different things.

 

[lolita]

With the 2016 Voting, Austria got 4+5+5+5+11=30 Points which was the Lowest Amount of Points that Bulgaria gave to any Country, so therefore 12 Points. Greece had 1+1+2+11+25=40 Points, which was the 5th Lowest Amount, so therefore 6 Points.

With the 2012 Voting [1,1,2,11,25] means 12+12+10+0+0= 34 Points which is the Highest Amount of Points that Bulgaria gave to any Country so therefore 12 Points. [4,5,5,5,11] means 7+6+6+6+0= 25 Points which was the 5th highest Amount of Points that Bulgaria gave to any Country so therefore 6 Points

Are you mathematician? This is amazing!

 

[lolita]

This is where I don't get it, if the new system boosts the favorite of the jury, how can it suddenly help the least popular choices of that jury in the meantime? It doesn't fit, or people simply don't get the new system and say different things.

Don't be afraid, you won't win! And thanks for ignoring my question and post! I asked you nicely.

 

[A-lister]

With the 2016 Voting, Austria got 4+5+5+5+11=30 Points which was the Lowest Amount of Points that Bulgaria gave to any Country, so therefore 12 Points. Greece had 1+1+2+11+25=40 Points, which was the 5th Lowest Amount, so therefore 6 Points.

With the 2012 Voting [1,1,2,11,25] means 12+12+10+0+0= 34 Points which is the Highest Amount of Points that Bulgaria gave to any Country so therefore 12 Points. [4,5,5,5,11] means 7+6+6+6+0= 25 Points which was the 5th highest Amount of Points that Bulgaria gave to any Country so therefore 6 Points

You refer to voting systems if we look at ESC 2017 right? So you'd say they introduce something that resemblance more the 2012 styled of voting?

 

[Realest]

This is where I don't get it, if the new system boosts the favorite of the jury, how can it suddenly help the least popular choices of that jury in the meantime? It doesn't fit, or people simply don't get the new system and say different things.

With the New System, Entries that are popular by 1-2 Jurymembers cant get punished strongly by outliers in the Opposite to the Previous System. Top10 (especially Top3) Voting now have much Stronger weight. But the EBU needs to public the "predetermined Scoringvalues" so we can make Conclusions. But it will be from now on, that the Difference in Points from First to Tenth Place is much much higher, than the Difference in Points from Tenth to twentyfifth Place. 2016 it was the other way round. The PointsDifference from First to Tenth Place was simply 9 (10-1) and the Pointsdifference from Tenth to Twentyfifth Place was 15 (25-10). From Now On, Single Jurymember cant "punish" Songs that are popular by the Other Members therefore.

 

[A-lister]

Don't be afraid, you won't win! And thanks for ignoring my question and post! I asked you nicely.

You mean this?

Why? Do you hate your own entry? I was kidding, it would most likely not.

... well I didn't know what to answer, hence the "no answer"

Not about ignoring, I simply have nothing good to say to that... haha

 

[Realest]

You refer to voting systems if we look at ESC 2017 right? So you'd say they introduce something that resemblance more the 2012 styled of voting?

Yes, the Focus will lie more on the Top10 mathematically. But the EBU doesnt want to return to the 12-1 Pointsystem, because the 11th-25th Ranks should still stay relevant, but not nearly as Strong as in the Previous Years with the 1-25 Rankingsystem.

 

[lolita]

You mean this?



... well I didn't know what to answer, hence the "no answer"

Not about ignoring, I simply have nothing good to say to that... haha

Yeah, I mean that! Hahaha, good, it is nice to be polite when people don't have something nice to say.

 

[A-lister]

With the New System, Entries that are popular by 1-2 Jurymembers cant get punished strongly by outliers in the Opposite to the Previous System. Top10 (especially Top3) Voting now have much Stronger weight. But the EBU needs to public the "predetermined Scoringvalues" so we can make Conclusions. But it will be from now on, that the Difference in Points from First to Tenth Place is much much higher, than the Difference in Points from Tenth to twentyfifth Place. 2016 it was the other way round. The PointsDifference from First to Tenth Place was simply 9 (10-1) and the Pointsdifference from Tenth to Twentyfifth Place was 15 (25-10). From Now On, Single Jurymember cant "punish" Songs that are popular by the Other Members therefore.

I understand, but still the juries absolute "top" will get an extra boost so in the end of the day I don't see much of a difference anyways

 

[A-lister]

Yeah, I mean that! Hahaha, good, it is nice to be polite when people don't have something nice to say.

Bottom line, no I don't like our entry (not the worst but far from good and shouldn't even be top. 10

 

[Realest]

Cant say it 100% secure, but if I understood it correct, for The Final Jury (who can only Judge 25 Countries) the Scoringvalue from 1st to 25th Place should be:

12,00
10,86
9,84
8,91
8,01
7,30
6,61
5,98
5,42
4,91
4,44
4,02
3,64
3,30
2,98
2,70
2,45
2,21
2,01
1,82
1,64
1,49
1,35
1,22
1,10 (25th SQRT of 12)

So for the Bulgarian Jury last year this means Austrias Points would be [4,5,5,5,11] = 37,38 and Greece Points would be [1,1,2,11,25] =40,40.

So in this Case the Polarizing Act (e.g. Greece) will get more Jurypoints from the Bulgarian Jury.

 

[lolita]

Bottom line, no I don't like our entry (not the worst but far from good and shouldn't even be top. 10

Hahaha, that is ok if you don't love it. I just asked you, because I see lot of Swedes on Twitter and Facebook talking that they personally don't think their country should qualify. I find it funny, because I think that my country maybe will stay in semifinal, and the song is so-so, not too good, not too bad, but there is no way I would like my country to stay in semi ( I find reactions like this bit of silly, when people are trashing their own entry like that in front of fandom, to say you don't want in final, like who doesn't even want his country in final, do people like that really exist ), I always root for my country, just for final, at least.

 

[A-lister]

Hahaha, that is ok if you don't love it. I just asked you, because I see lot of Swedes on Twitter and Facebook talking that they personally don't think their country should qualify. I find it funny, because I think that my country maybe will stay in semifinal, and the song is so-so, not too good, not too bad, but there is no way I would like my country to stay in semi ( I find reactions like this bit of silly, when people are trashing their own entry like that in front of fandom, to say you don't want in final, like who doesn't even want his country in final, do people like that really exist ), I always root for my country, just for final, at least.

I root for the songs I like, it's that simple, can't speak for others. I think we do deserve to qualify from our semi, but that's about it.

 

[lolita]

I root for the songs I like, it's that simple, can't speak for others. I think we do deserve to qualify from our semi, but that's about it.

Some people are not patriotic I guess, but I find it ok, just little weird. In my opinion, because semi 2 is very weak, I think you should at least qualify, your song is one of the five best songs in that semi. And for final placement maybe it will be out of top 10, because this year is just full of strong entries, and that is all about this drama. Sorry if I bothered you much.

 

[Citelis]

In south countries people want to see their entries having good results even if they are horrible!
In the north people don't think like that!

 

[lolita]

In south countries people want to see their entries having good results even if they are horrible!
In the north people don't think like that!

Guess I must learn few things, too. Thanks for explanation.

 

[A-lister]

Some people are not patriotic I guess, but I find it ok, just little weird. In my opinion, because semi 2 is very weak, I think you should at least qualify, your song is one of the five best songs in that semi. And for final placement maybe it will be out of top 10, because this year is just full of strong entries, and that is all about this drama. Sorry if I bothered you much.

Oh, I'm a patriot, but I refer to myself as a "rational patriot", not a chauvinistic one... there's a difference.

Chauvinistic patriotism or nationalism or as I also call "blind nationalism/patriotism" is when you are waving your flag and rooting for your country no matter the reason, even for the wrong reasons. For example when we have diaspora voting for a crappy song just because it's from their country of origin, now that's just stupid imo or simply rooting for music you wouldn't normally even listen to just because it's representing your country

I am the kind of person who lifts up what's good about my country and when we accomplish good things, but I'm not afraid to criticize my country as well and point out situations when we do wrong, and in ESC context that would be pointing out when we're sending a song that isn't in my taste.

Swedes in general are like this I'd say, even if most are afraid to call themselves "patriots" for stupid political reasons but that's for another discussion...

 

[FoxOfShadows]

This is where I don't get it, if the new system boosts the favorite of the jury, how can it suddenly help the least popular choices of that jury in the meantime? It doesn't fit, or people simply don't get the new system and say different things.

Jury favourites will always do well with the jury. It's unlikely that a jury fanwank (like Sweden or Australia) will ever be in the bottom 5 with a juror so while this new system doesn't harm jury favourites, it doesn't help them massively either. Neither does it help entries that most jurors will detest (Poland 2016 for example). What this new format does do is help polarising entries like Hungary and Israel. They are very much love them or hate them songs which means they'll probably appear at both the top and the bottom of many jurors rankings. With this new system, if several of a countries jurors really like a polarising entry then their opinion is less likely to be cancelled out by one or two other jurors who put that song at the very bottom of their rankings.

 

[ZoboCamel]

This analysis over at ESCInsight is a brilliant look into how the change works: http://escinsight.com/2018/04/27/eurovision-song-contest-2018-important-jury-scoring-change/

For once, I'm quite happy with a change announced by the EBU – this definitely seems like a move in the right direction!

 

[Alaska49]

too brilliant of a look because i understood maybe 5% of it lmao

if it is the way it was shown on this page then it really is a brilliant decision though. my homework for this year will be to find out if this system would make il volo win!!!!!!!!