Cheating in Eurovision voting

[Galandar]

but it looks really unfriendly because its obvious Russia was popular in Azerbaijan and supported by people, this means that jury failed Russia.
I don't see any bad that Azerbaijan make question about not giving points to Russia, because for me so obvious that this year results was cheated.

I agree. In fact ITV in its press-release disclosed that its jury gave Russia 10 points and the same goes for televoters so ITV expected Russia finally to receive 10 points from Azerbaijan. Representatives of Azeri show-business and our Ambassador in Russia also raised up this question as they think this could cause a serious damage to diplomatic relations between two countries which is IMO absurd exxageration and sound like cheap statements. Nevetheless, I have to say that Russian media is actually bashing Azerbaijan these days because of this so-called unfriendly gesture.

 

[GermanBango]

Gosh, I know it's hard for many of you but try to imagine that maybe nobody cheated!
It is how it is, live with the results or go back to the Kindergarten

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

I rack my brains each year to try and think of a fair but simple voting system and each year it seems to become more and more impossible.
What is very clear however is that the present system is corrupt and unfair.

Some changes I believe that could make some difference are;
- Televoting and Juryvoting in each country to rank all of the performances - 25 points to their favourite and 1 point to their least favourite. Add the two sets of points together, with the top 12 performances receiving that country's points.
- Create 9 and 11 points.
- Move Russia into a Big 6.
- Opposite voting in the Semi Finals (those in SF1 vote in SF2 only, and vice versa), with the Big 6 and Host voting in both Semi Finals.
- Require that the Jury of each country must consist of 8 people - 1 in their teens, 1 in their twenties, and so on up to 1 eighties and over.

 

[A-lister]

Gosh, I know it's hard for many of you but try to imagine that maybe nobody cheated!
It is how it is, live with the results or go back to the Kindergarten

And what if someone cheated then? We should just accept it?

Don't be naive, ESC is far more corrupt and political than many want to admit.

I mean some of the world's most corrupted states takes part in ESC, it may be hard for someone coming from the "protected Western bubble" to comprehend, but in some countries corruption is a part of everyday life.

 

[GermanBango]

And what if someone cheated then? We should just accept it?

Don't be naive, ESC is far more corrupt and political than many want to admit.

I mean some of the world's most corrupted states takes part in ESC, it may be hard for someone coming from the "protected Western bubble" to comprehend, but in some countries corruption is a part of everyday life.

Of course I have my own opinnion about that but this discussion seems pretty useless since both sides are convinced that they are right!
All this hate in here seems very stupid since we can't change anything ... as mentioned before this is something the EBU has to deal with!

 

[A-lister]

Of course I have my own opinnion about that but this discussion seems pretty useless since both sides are convinced that they are right!

Well, that's usually the case in discussions, but it's an important discussion nevertheless.

I mean we're all here as fans of this contest (I assume atleast?), and if votes are manipulated, fabricated, bought and whatever then it undermines the whole contest and atleast I can't be a fan of something like that, because there's no point really.

So I think these are issues that must be raised to the surface.

 

[Trece]

I rack my brains each year to try and think of a fair but simple voting system and each year it seems to become more and more impossible.
What is very clear however is that the present system is corrupt and unfair.

Some changes I believe that could make some difference are;
- Televoting and Juryvoting in each country to rank all of the performances - 25 points to their favourite and 1 point to their least favourite. Add the two sets of points together, with the top 12 performances receiving that country's points.
- Create 9 and 11 points.
- Move Russia into a Big 6.
- Opposite voting in the Semi Finals (those in SF1 vote in SF2 only, and vice versa), with the Big 6 and Host voting in both Semi Finals.
- Require that the Jury of each country must consist of 8 people - 1 in their teens, 1 in their twenties, and so on up to 1 eighties and over.

i hope it will never happen

i am not against jury, but as long as jury will exist - will take place corruption, because any jury could be bought.
Swedish knew who is in Slovenian jury for example, came to them, gave money and said - place higher Denmark and exclude Ukraine from final ----- there is possibility that it was so? of course i don't have proofs, but we all know these contests where only jury and Miss Universe, Miss World etc.

 

[PashonFrut]

Gosh, I know it's hard for many of you but try to imagine that maybe nobody cheated!
It is how it is, live with the results or go back to the Kindergarten

but conspiracies are fun

(btw I do agree with you! )

 

[Venage]

I rack my brains each year to try and think of a fair but simple voting system and each year it seems to become more and more impossible.
What is very clear however is that the present system is corrupt and unfair.

Some changes I believe that could make some difference are;
- Televoting and Juryvoting in each country to rank all of the performances - 25 points to their favourite and 1 point to their least favourite. Add the two sets of points together, with the top 12 performances receiving that country's points.
- Create 9 and 11 points.
- Move Russia into a Big 6.
- Opposite voting in the Semi Finals (those in SF1 vote in SF2 only, and vice versa), with the Big 6 and Host voting in both Semi Finals.
- Require that the Jury of each country must consist of 8 people - 1 in their teens, 1 in their twenties, and so on up to 1 eighties and over.

Good idea! I would also add the rule "One vote per phone" as it would be harder to buy votes in small countries.

The best way to minimise block voting would be a proportional vote system which weighs to vote of countries according to their population. Obviously this system is pretty hard to implement but it would almost nullify block voting as a vote from Britain, Italy or France would count as much as the votings from the whole Balkan block together.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

i hope it will never happen

i am not against jury, but as long as jury will exist - will take place corruption, because any jury could be bought.
Swedish knew who is in Slovenian jury for example, came to them, gave money and said - place higher Denmark and exclude Ukraine from final ----- there is possibility that it was so? of course i don't have proofs, but we all know these contests where only jury and Miss Universe, Miss World etc.

That in an unfounded claim, in particular as televoting is by far the most corrupt aspect of Eurovision voting.

 

[GermanBango]

Well, that's usually the case in discussions, but it's an important discussion nevertheless.

I mean we're all here as fans of this contest (I assume atleast?), and if votes are manipulated, fabricated, bought and whatever then it undermines the whole contest and atleast I can't be a fan of something like that, because there's no point really.

So I think these are issues that must be raised to the surface.

I agree things need to be raised to surface and a lot needs to be discussed but in a RESPECTFUL way. As you said we are all fans and we all want a fair competition, we should not hate each other.

 

[A-lister]

Good idea! I would also add the rule "One vote per phone" as it would be harder to buy votes in small countries.

The best way to minimise block voting would be a proportional vote system which weighs to vote of countries according to their population. Obviously this system is pretty hard to implement but it would almost nullify block voting as a vote from Britain, Italy or France would count as much as the votings from the whole Balkan block together.

Firstly EBU wouldn't limit the voting to 1 vote/phone... $$$

Secondly, it would be against the whole spirit of ESC to have proportional voting, and in practice this would mean that Russia and Turkey (if they'd return) would decide the winner each year together with diaspora votes from Germany-France-UK that would suddenly have an even larger impact than previously...

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Good idea! I would also add the rule "One vote per phone" as it would be harder to buy votes in small countries.

The best way to minimise block voting would be a proportional vote system which weighs to vote of countries according to their population. Obviously this system is pretty hard to implement but it would almost nullify block voting as a vote from Britain, Italy or France would count as much as the votings from the whole Balkan block together.

I like the idea of weighted voting too. However, there are many problems with it and it may very well make the system even more unfair for the likes of Britain and Germany - it would be much harder for us to win as we would be the one distributing the largest amount of points. Those voting for us would have much smaller amounts of points.

 

[A-lister]

I agree things need to be raised to surface and a lot needs to be discussed but in a RESPECTFUL way. As you said we are all fans and we all want a fair competition, we should not hate each other.

Well, I dunno what others have said, I don't hate people who treats me with respect atleast.

People in here are a bit sensitive though, they take criticism against their broadcaster or songs personal... which is pretty ridiculous and childish.

 

[Matt]

Gosh, I know it's hard for many of you but try to imagine that maybe nobody cheated!
It is how it is, live with the results or go back to the Kindergarten

I can share is that I know some countries & delegations were approached to exchange points so attempts to cheat are happening which is why I feel the EBU needs to put more pressure on those countries.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

I can share is that I know some countries & delegations were approached to exchange points so attempts to cheat are happening which is why I feel the EBU needs to put more pressure on those countries.

Which countries? NAME AND SHAME THEM.

 

[A-lister]

I can share is that I know some countries & delegations were approached to exchange points so attempts to cheat are happening which is why I feel the EBU needs to put more pressure on those countries.

Well, how come there's no pressure been made bu the EBU then?

I think the faster we realize that EBU is also corrupt, the better...

I don't want to trash them, but their blind-eye towards things like these are speaking volumes, and tbh EBU is probably more involved aswell (in other words they're not just ignoring the corruption, I bet parts of them are active in it themselves otherwise we would see harsher reactions from their part).

I mean how come Azerbaijan got away with blocking lines for the Armenian entry for instance? Lebanon were banned PRIOR the contest for wanting to do something similar, but what happened with Azerbaijan? Some small fine and that was it...

 

[Matt]

Well, how come there's no pressure been made bu the EBU then?

I think the faster we realize that EBU is also corrupt, the better...

I don't want to trash them, but their blind-eye towards things like these are speaking volumes, and tbh EBU is probably more involved aswell (in other words they're not just ignoring the corruption, I bet parts of them are active in it themselves otherwise we would see harsher reactions from their part).

I mean how come Azerbaijan got away with blocking lines for the Armenian entry for instance? Lebanon were banned PRIOR the contest for wanting to do something similar, but what happened with Azerbaijan? Some small fine and that was it...

Cheating is very difficult to prove. I can't prove anything that EBU says or does but I personally don't believe that they're trying to sabotage the contest themselves. I jsut want them to be more forceful when investigating those claims.

Regarding the Armenian voting blocks, where did that happen? I am not familiar with that, was there something released these past few days?

 

[A-lister]

Cheating is very difficult to prove. I can't prove anything that EBU says or does but I personally don't believe that they're trying to sabotage the contest themselves. I jsut want them to be more forceful when investigating those claims.

Regarding the Armenian voting blocks, where did that happen? I am not familiar with that, was there something released these past few days?

Well, my bet is that they would be better investigating and reacting if none of them were corrupt themselves. I'm not saying all of EBU are corrupt, obviously not, but sure some of them are.

Well, that was some years ago, they even got a fine by EBU (a ridiculously low one)... but had EBU followed their own rules they would have got a 5 year ban instead... I guess money really pays off in the end

 

[Venage]

Firstly EBU wouldn't limit the voting to 1 vote/phone... $$$

Secondly, it would be against the whole spirit of ESC to have proportional voting, and in practice this would mean that Russia and Turkey (if they'd return) would decide the winner each year together with diaspora votes from Germany-France-UK that would suddenly have an even larger impact than previously...

1. That's true but I hate the EBU for that SOOC

2. I don't think so. The Big 5 and Russia + Turkey represent more people and should therefore be more important in the voting than San Marino or Malta for example. It would especially be an advantage for small countries as they could easily get a lot of points if their song is appreciated by the bigger countries. Block voting on the other hand is almost nullified with the juries in place. On the plus side Western artists wouldn't be that dependent on the small Eastern countries if the song is popular in the Big 5 countries.