Australia and Sweden

[Preuss]

The Thing is Australia got 3 Times in 4 years the latest possible Draw which is not fair. There was no Justification for giving her #9 in the Semi or Guy #13 in the Final. Regarding Isaiah.... The ridicuous Thing is, even if the Televoter gave him 0 Points in the Semi and in the Final, he would have ended up 9th Place, so the Televoter never had a chance to make him ending up worse. Objectively viewed there is nothing that justifies giving him more Points than Italy, Hungary, Romania or Moldova. I mean everything is solid-ok on him and his entry, but nothing is outstanding about the whole Package. And this went too far. As I said, I can understand if someone put him #5-6 in his Ranking (which would lead to around 120-130 Points in the Juryvoting instead of 171), but Many people had him Top3 and this is not objective. Jessicas Juryvoting is almost fair (regarding that her Juryperformance was much better), but also here I question People who put her Top3. Maybe she should have around 10-20 Points less and it would be ok.

Regarding Sweden, there is no clear Bias. Malena, Anna, Eric, Loreen and Frans did all worse with the Juries than the Televoters while Robin, Sanna, Mans, Robin and Benjamin did better, so overall this is fair. Benjamins Song had juryfriendlyness written all over it. In ESCforum even many haters predicted his Top5 Finish in the Juryvote (even before he won MF), so the Theory that the Juries voted for Benjamin because hes from Sweden is ridiculous.

Dami won her semifinal, and you think it's wrong that she got to perform as number 13...? Okay let's say that your precious Benjamin won the 2nd semi final and he was set to perform as third.. well you'd like that, wouldn't you? Because considering that you don't find it fair that Dami performed as 13th after winning her semifinal, this shouldn't bother you either, no?

With respect, but not better than Hungary, Moldova or Romania...? I'm pleased with their results, but I'm pretty sure many juries ranked Australia worse than those country you mentioned; Hungary, Moldova and Romania. As I've said before, Australia got fourth because they consistently did well with the juries, while Hungary, Moldova and Romania did not.. Deal with it, this is an important part as well to appeal to a majority of hte juries. You're saying "objectively"; I'm saying my ass. You are being highly subjetive in your opinion, because I DON'T ever believe that you can gather 200 music professionals and everyone would rank Romania over Australia because it's "objectively" to rank joik over "Don't Come Easy". And I'm not a hater of Romania's entry btw, just saying that 200 music professionals would not rank Romania over Australia, and this was proven during the jury voting.

At the end of the day, it's not possible in Eurovision jury voting that over 200 music professional's gonna rank the songs the same, because they are humans and humans are subjective when it comes to their taste of music. And come on, Realest, many jury members appreciate well produced pop songs with a slick staging, something your own Benjamin benefited from this year.

I’m a bit confused. You're ending your post with stating that Benjamin got his points due to the song (which I also believe btw) and not because he's from Sweden. Still you think that Australia's entries are being pushed big time by the juries in this contest...? :?

 

[Realest]

Dami won her semifinal, and you think it's wrong that she got to perform as number 13...? Okay let's say that your precious Benjamin won the 2nd semi final and he was set to perform as third.. well you'd like that, wouldn't you? Because considering that you don't find it fair that Dami performed as 13th after winning her semifinal, this shouldn't bother you either, no?

With respect, but not better than Hungary, Moldova or Romania...? I'm pleased with their results, but I'm pretty sure many juries ranked Australia worse than those country you mentioned; Hungary, Moldova and Romania. As I've said before, Australia got fourth because they consistently did well with the juries, while Hungary, Moldova and Romania did not.. Deal with it, this is an important part as well to appeal to a majority of hte juries. You're saying "objectively"; I'm saying my ass. You are being highly subjetive in your opinion, because I DON'T ever believe that you can gather 200 music professionals and everyone would rank Romania over Australia because it's "objectively" to rank joik over "Don't Come Easy". And I'm not a hater of Romania's entry btw, just saying that 200 music professionals would not rank Romania over Australia, and this was proven during the jury voting.

At the end of the day, it's not possible in Eurovision jury voting that over 200 music professional's gonna rank the songs the same, because they are humans and humans are subjective when it comes to their taste of music. And come on, Realest, many jury members appreciate well produced pop songs with a slick staging, something your own Benjamin benefited from this year.

You're ending your post with stating that Benjamin got his points due to the song (which I also believe btw) and not because he's from Sweden. Still you think that Australia's entries are being pushed big time by the juries in this contest...? :?

No, I meant Jessica and Guy didnt deserve their Draw. In Case of Dami Im I could understand it. But still it was disgusting how the EBU tried their best to prevent Ukraine and Russia from winning.

Well, I dont say Televoters are always right, but the Fact that f.e. Romania beats Australia in every Televoting in the World including Australias Best Friends from the Nordics, Malta and Uk speaks a clear language. Also it was the Romanian Song which had an ok Chartsuccess, while "Love dont come easy" flopped brutally. So, yeah.. And If I watch the Performance, I see nothing outstanding, no Uniqueness etc.. I just dont get it, everything felt so empty. Isaiah also doesnt have a special Voice or Charisma.

Well, "my" Benjamin (lol) had an innovative staging that weve never seen before and his own style which gave him uniqueness and his song did chartwise pretty ok. He even reached Platinum-Status in Sweden weeks before ESC began. Many people bought his song, but probably didnt vote for him because hes from Sweden and the Juries corrected this Mistake.
This Entry was definitely outstanding among 26 others, but on Isaiah everything was just there somehow.

Sweden suffered often enough from the Juries and even got eliminated by them, so there is a Prove that there is no Pro-Sweden-Bias. But Australia benefits a bit too much. I mean, I know that its hard for the Juries to undersell those 2 and 9 Points the last 2 years, but as I said, many Juries had Isaiah on #1-4 which is too much.

 

[Preuss]

Okay, I'm highly confused of why you believe that Jessica didn't deserve to perform as #16 considering she came fourth in her semi final barely behind Moldova and considering that 20-26 is probably a better draw...?

"Had an innovative staging that we've never seen before..." I don't think we've ever seen anyone portray the use of LED "selfies" like Australia did in 2017? "Isaiah also doesn't have a special voice or charisma". I'd say this is again a subjective opinion by you as I really like his voice and think he was one of the best vocalists in 2017. And with respect, but I don't think Benjamin has a really special voice either lol. And I'm not saying this because I dislike Benjamin and "Dance You Off", but I find your reasoning very poor and biased because you liked Sweden 2018 and not Australia 2017. And that's okay, but I don't understand how you can say that Benjamin deserved his 7th place when most of his points were from the juries, but Isaiah did not deserve his 9th place when also most of his points were from the juries...?

At the end of the day, I do think 7th and 9th place were what the entries deserved, although personally I wouldn't mind to see Benjamin and Isaiah a bit higher. I just think that their stagings were maybe a bit "too perfect", slick and calculated for viewers back home to really vote for them. Because I find the stagings great and I'm glad that the juries rewarded Benjamin and Isaiah for very high quality acts despite the viewers disapproval back home.

And I know the awful feeling literally every year when some of the acts I really like do really poor with the televoters...

 

[Preuss]

3:33:52

See, it ain't funny when people cheer and laugh when especially Sweden's called up
I find it really disgusting and sad to watch

 

[Realest]

Disguting People..

 

[Preuss]

Disguting People..

Some people really do witch hunt entries and "schadenfreude" is enormous when these countries really do not do well (and not talking just about Sweden and Australia here)
That's not the ESC spirit and the press center could at least act more professional than cheering and clapping when entries flop

 

[mauve]

Same old discussion, gets boring ...

 

[Realest]

was together with his last Place and he was really buthurt about every 12 got. After the 21 Points he was the happiest Person in the World.

 

[Preuss]

Wouldn’t that be you though if Australia got a bunch of 12s and then flopping in televote

 

[Realest]

Yes (although I wouldnt cheer so disgustingly), because

a) I dont accept Australia at Eurovision
b) Isaiahs Special Treatment destroyed Australias Reputation for me
c) Jessica was horrible offtune (but to be fair her Juryperformance was much better)

But Sweden was objective good and brought somehing new and sent a song that has a future outside Eurovision and Benjamin will become the biggest Superstar of this Edition. So I cant understand the hate against him and Sweden.

 

[Preuss]

Eurovision fans and people here are way too critical about the vocal performances of the artists lol, it’s like they expect the voice to be like in the music video. I didn’t find Jess’s voice flawless as I really questioned her vocals in her first jury final, but her vocals in the grand final was fine.

And don’t you even dare to say that Benjamin’s vocals were good as Sweden was the entry this year where you could clearly hear the use of backing vocalists. And I don’t really care about his vocals as I found his performance amusing - vocals and performance, because flawless vocals isn’t something you can expect in Eurovision

And if I were to be really critical and sceptical of vocals over the years, I’d find errors in popular performers (that I personally like and listen to), like Netta, Eleni, Mikolas, EQUINOX, Blanche, Kristian Kostov (don’t you dare to say that his vocals were as good as in the music video because they were not and I’ve bought his song and listened to it plenty), Poli, Amir and the list goes on

 

[Pawhlen]

https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=4922&artikel=6951339

Can someone from the Swedes tell us what this interview is about. I only know its something about the Juryvoting.

Nothing special, only Björn Kjellman suggesting that the people in the juries should hear the songs for the very first time when it´s time for them to vote, something that would be very difficult today than it was 15-20 years ago. Nothing to take seriously.

By the way, those kind of people that celebrated our televoting result must feel very terrible mentally, you don´t do something like that no matter which country it is, especially not when you have accreditation in the presscenter

 

[Pawhlen]

3:33:52

See, it ain't funny when people cheer and laugh when especially Sweden's called up
I find it really disgusting and sad to watch

I´m pretty glad that I wasn´t in the press centre this time, I probably would have delivered some things that would have taken me to jail

 

[Realest]

I didn’t find Jess’s voice flawless as I really questioned her vocals in her first jury final, but her vocals in the grand final was fine.

And what about:

- 01:30
- 01:48
-02:36?

 

[Preuss]

I said I didn’t find any flaws with her voice personally in the GF because unlike you I don’t stalk songs for mistakes and I don’t rave about hating entries... at least not damn 6 months after the contest lol. And don’t you dare to deny this as I’m pretty sure that just couple of minutes after Jess performed, you pointed out all of her vocal flaws lol. I don’t understand people like you who feel the urge to criticize entries you dislike than just simply enjoying Eurovision.

I think you contribute a lot to this forum in a positive way, but sometimes I just don’t get you like you claim that Australia are being special treated by the juries without any proof but Sweden and Benjamin are not... You get mad when people are hating on Benjamin and Sweden still you’re pissing on Jess and Australia...? :? And you point out Jessica’s vocal mistakes from your POV when defending Benjamin - whom had the clearest use of backing singers this year to cover up for his vocal flaws...? :?

 

[Realest]

I found this mistakes out 5 months ago, when you asked me why I would put Jessica last if I were a professional Jurymember.
I think I mentioned all objective Facts why Benjamin should be so high in the Juryvoting.
And yes, Benjain needed help for his chorus because this is the Type of Chorus which cant be sung alone. And Im fine with this.

 

[Preuss]

Maybe it was the semi-final then as I clearly remember that you criticized everything about her performance after she performed
"Benjamin needed help for his chorus because this is the Type of Chorus which cant be sung alone." - which argument is this lol, fact is that Benjamin used backing vocals to hide the flaws of his voice to sing the chorus lol.

 

[Realest]

Noone can sing the DYO-Chorus alone.

 

[lolita]

Maybe it was the semi-final then as I clearly remember that you criticized everything about her performance after she performed
"Benjamin needed help for his chorus because this is the Type of Chorus which cant be sung alone." - which argument is this lol, fact is that Benjamin used backing vocals to hide the flaws of his voice to sing the chorus lol.

He didn't use the backing vocals just because of that, even if it is true what you've said, he used it because he is singing his own backing vocal on the original, studio version. Backing vocals are needed in DYO to make it sound rich, full, and well produced, just like the studio version. I am not defending him just because I am his fan, I am explaining the use of backing vocals, in his track just. Plus, he was singing in falsetto, which is not full voice of any singer, so backing vocal is often, more than needed, not just in Benjamin's case, but in case of any other singer using falsetto.

 

[Preuss]

Thanks for your answer, lolita! Just so you know, I’m not a hater, I really like his song and I really appreciate Sweden’s entry this year from where I initially was!