We do see some things differently, but I think we can at least agree on the fact that bashing shouldn't be here in this forum. I think it is not about liking or disliking a song, but about the way you state something.
Australia and Sweden
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We do see some things differently, but I think we can at least agree on the fact that bashing shouldn't be here in this forum. I think it is not about liking or disliking a song, but about the way you state something.
I don't think that there are neutral or objective Statements when it comes to music. There is always passion involved. And to be honest, I doubt that this discussion will ever cool down because the discrepance of opinions is too huge. But let's not forget: ESC should - no matter how bland this sounds - unite and not part. So just let's try to treat each other more carefully.
I don't think that there are neutral or objective Statements when it comes to music. There is always passion involved. And to be honest, I doubt that this discussion will ever cool down because the discrepance of opinions is too huge. But let's not forget: ESC should - no matter how bland this sounds - unite and not part. So just let's try to treat each other more carefully.
I myself thinks all comments we get in the Swedish thread and overall is not acceptable, just because you don´t find them harsh enough does not mean that everyone thinks so, I can assure you that we Swedes in here can´t even write a little bit about that we dislike another song before we get hate back. This attitude has gone to far I think.
I´m not easily violated, but there are many people in here that really need to look themselves in the mirror and asking themselves if they think they act good.
If we really want ESC to unite, this behaviour must end now. Otherwise it´s better to end the contest once and for all
Of course everyone has a different Limit about harshness. I admit that I haven't paid attention too closely about all the hate that Sweden gets. Maybe it is also about being thin-skinned or thick-skinned about certain posts. But you know that on other Forums there are always stupid people making stupid remarks. And I doubt that we will be successful to push them away.
But to state:
is a bit exxaggerated, I think.
What´s worrying me is that these people more and more seems to appear at the actual contests and affect other people with their bullshit
midnightsun
Veteran
Actually, I don't read that many "hate posts" about Sweden. Each year there is a country which gets blamed for being overrated.
I remember people were brassed off when Dima Bilan was winning the contest in 2008. In the 2000s, Eastern European countries were often overrated, culminating in said win of Russia. That was the era were people were annoyed, losing interest in Eurovision, that's why the juries were created. Russia was (and still is) one of the main scapegoats in Eurovision, partly because of their political interventions, partly because they tried to gather the "Eastern fan block" though sending soulless disco pop with short skirts. Often undeserved they climbed up high in the rankings and believe me, I've read much worse postings about Russia than Sweden.
In the early 2010s, it was Azerbaijan's turn, drawing critisism for pushing their entries to the top, buying votes, taunting other countries, getting undeserved good placings in the finals. I also read a lot of bad comments on this topics.
And if you look in the comment section of some Greek or Turkish or Macedonian entries on YouTube, then you have seen the real Eurovision hell, the edge of good and bad. THOSE are comments I would never like to read again, very hateful and insulting.
Now it's Sweden's and Australia's turn, being the "scapegoat" of the late 2010's. I'm telling you what, guys: there will be better times again. You are not hated. But after every rise there is a fall and especially Sweden has been hyped the past ten years a lot, justifiably but also wrongfully. They polarize and of course they will attract a lot of schadenfreude, as well as Russia did when they didn't qualify, as well as different countries for some reason. Also Germany had to deal with many not so nice comments about our poor song choices the past years but the critics were right. Sweden's time will come again because I'm sure Sweden has the quality to send another smash hit like Euphoria (which I'm not even liking much, by the way, but I'm acknowledging its victory for different reasons).
I myself have always talked openly about my opinions on different songs. I've always written about strong dislikes or hates of songs but also countries when it comes to things I didn't like in Eurovision, may it be the organization or anything else. That doesn't mean I hate any country. It's just about Eurovision. People have to learn to distinguish.
I remember people were brassed off when Dima Bilan was winning the contest in 2008. In the 2000s, Eastern European countries were often overrated, culminating in said win of Russia. That was the era were people were annoyed, losing interest in Eurovision, that's why the juries were created. Russia was (and still is) one of the main scapegoats in Eurovision, partly because of their political interventions, partly because they tried to gather the "Eastern fan block" though sending soulless disco pop with short skirts. Often undeserved they climbed up high in the rankings and believe me, I've read much worse postings about Russia than Sweden.
In the early 2010s, it was Azerbaijan's turn, drawing critisism for pushing their entries to the top, buying votes, taunting other countries, getting undeserved good placings in the finals. I also read a lot of bad comments on this topics.
And if you look in the comment section of some Greek or Turkish or Macedonian entries on YouTube, then you have seen the real Eurovision hell, the edge of good and bad. THOSE are comments I would never like to read again, very hateful and insulting.
Now it's Sweden's and Australia's turn, being the "scapegoat" of the late 2010's. I'm telling you what, guys: there will be better times again. You are not hated. But after every rise there is a fall and especially Sweden has been hyped the past ten years a lot, justifiably but also wrongfully. They polarize and of course they will attract a lot of schadenfreude, as well as Russia did when they didn't qualify, as well as different countries for some reason. Also Germany had to deal with many not so nice comments about our poor song choices the past years but the critics were right. Sweden's time will come again because I'm sure Sweden has the quality to send another smash hit like Euphoria (which I'm not even liking much, by the way, but I'm acknowledging its victory for different reasons).
I myself have always talked openly about my opinions on different songs. I've always written about strong dislikes or hates of songs but also countries when it comes to things I didn't like in Eurovision, may it be the organization or anything else. That doesn't mean I hate any country. It's just about Eurovision. People have to learn to distinguish.
xgood Your words are absolutely true. I remember when we Germans were the black sheep ... and Russia has gotten some very offending statements as well. That's why I think that the Anger about Sweden's "hate" is overrated. As you said: better times will come for Sweden - and hopefully better songs.
Well, its a fact that Russia and Turkey got lots of Points which have nothing to do with music and there I can understand the Anger. Its a bad Joke that those Countries always start with 80-90 Points nomatter what the Song is. Azerbaijan was deservedly hated. The Fact that they won Cyprusses Televoting 2012 says enough. But Sweden is a Country that starts with nearly 0 guaranteed Points and must fight hard for every Point. And the Hate that Benjamin received after he was chosen was ridiculous. If he represented f.e. Macedonia people would never have given him 0 Points in the Poll.
NO country deserves hate.
Manipulating Televoting is unforgiveable and definitely not the Spirit of Eurovision. Im pretty sure Eldar and Nigar arent the Real Winners if we discount the Bought Votes (although Id rather see them winning than Italy who was 11th with the Televoting.) Also what they did to the 46 azeri People who voted for Armenia 2009 or how their Jury cheated (not only) 2014 doesnt go conform with the Spirit of Eurovision.
midnightsun
Veteran
This applies to a lot more countries.
No? Sweden will always get at least a few points from at least one of its neighbour countries. And if none of those qualifies then Sweden will get definitely points from Germany
Jokes aside...
There are two words that don't quite fit in. Hate and Benjamin. Hate is such a strong word - I've never read any HATE, rather schadenfreude, amusement, approval. And secondly it was about "SWEDEN" not Benjamin. Sweden as a synonym for the "music team Sweden in Eurovision", maybe even Björkman, but not the whole country and every single inhabitant.
We will never know. On the other hand you can claim that if he was participating for Macedonia the juries would have probably given him
zero points!
It's funny how you always use the word "deservedly" to describe YOUR opinion...
This applies to a lot more countries.
No? Sweden will always get at least a few points from at least one of its neighbour countries. And if none of those qualifies then Sweden will get definitely points from Germany
Jokes aside...
There are two words that don't quite fit in. Hate and Benjamin. Hate is such a strong word - I've never read any HATE, rather schadenfreude, amusement, approval. And secondly it was about "SWEDEN" not Benjamin. Sweden as a synonym for the "music team Sweden in Eurovision", maybe even Björkman, but not the whole country and every single inhabitant.
We will never know. On the other hand you can claim that if he was participating for Macedonia the juries would have probably given him
zero points!
It's funny how you always use the word "deservedly" to describe YOUR opinion...
Sweden only gets guaranteed Points from DK. I think 6 was the lowest, so this isnt really much.
Just read the first 10-20 Pages after he was chosen. This was hate.
NO, even if Benjamin represented FYROM the Juries would give him the same 253 Points, because they voted for the Song and not for the Country.
Its not my opinion, its all known that Azerbaijan played dirty Games, so noone can say it was undeserved.
No, but it´s as close confirmed inofficially as it can get
https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=4922&artikel=6951339
Can someone from the Swedes tell us what this interview is about. I only know its something about the Juryvoting.
Can someone from the Swedes tell us what this interview is about. I only know its something about the Juryvoting.
Preuss
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Can I just also say that I love when fans complain about Sweden and Australia "stealing" a final spot from another country when they are ending up far far far away from the ninth and the tenth poistion in their semi finals...?
Did I mention the conspiracy theories about EBU favouring Australia and Sweden when Dami got to perform as number 13 after winning her semi final and Benjamin and Robin performing late in the show when they got like top 3 in their semi finals
Did I mention the conspiracy theories about EBU favouring Australia and Sweden when Dami got to perform as number 13 after winning her semi final and Benjamin and Robin performing late in the show when they got like top 3 in their semi finals
The Thing is Australia got 3 Times in 4 years the latest possible Draw which is not fair. There was no Justification for giving her #9 in the Semi or Guy #13 in the Final. Regarding Isaiah.... The ridicuous Thing is, even if the Televoter gave him 0 Points in the Semi and in the Final, he would have ended up 9th Place, so the Televoter never had a chance to make him ending up worse. Objectively viewed there is nothing that justifies giving him more Points than Italy, Hungary, Romania or Moldova. I mean everything is solid-ok on him and his entry, but nothing is outstanding about the whole Package. And this went too far. As I said, I can understand if someone put him #5-6 in his Ranking (which would lead to around 120-130 Points in the Juryvoting instead of 171), but Many people had him Top3 and this is not objective. Jessicas Juryvoting is almost fair (regarding that her Juryperformance was much better), but also here I question People who put her Top3. Maybe she should have around 10-20 Points less and it would be ok.
Regarding Sweden, there is no clear Bias. Malena, Anna, Eric, Loreen and Frans did all worse with the Juries than the Televoters while Robin, Sanna, Mans, Robin and Benjamin did better, so overall this is fair. Benjamins Song had juryfriendlyness written all over it. In ESCforum even many haters predicted his Top5 Finish in the Juryvote (even before he won MF), so the Theory that the Juries voted for Benjamin because hes from Sweden is ridiculous.