سوريا - Syria

[Israeliboy]

You don't have to care, but I don't see how a country that have competed in the contest for 30 years can be used as an excuse for new countries.

Not only, Israel won 3 times and hosted Esc in Jerusalem twice. Israel brought a lot of things to Esc, from Hallelujah to Dana International as the first trans in Esc.
So give me a favor!

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Syria mustn't join, they can't join. You can't have a contest, which has a majority gay following, allowing the participation of a country where homosexuality is illegal - what happens if they win?? Gay fans have to stay with abstinence like Qatar has disgustingly suggested for the World Cup? What's happened to putting pressure on countries with unacceptable human rights through entertainment and culture like we all did with Apartheid South Africa??
And what happens when female performers want to perform with less clothes than Syrian law would find acceptable?

 

[AlekS]

Ehm? We're here to discuss right? With that logic, we shouldn't even discuss this at all since it would be EBU's decision in the end afterall and we should have no say or any opinion on anything regarding Eurovision or the rules whatsoever. Now what would be a point with a discussion forum then if we have to agree with everything??

Ehm? Did somebody prohibit you to discuss?

Following your logic... am I supposed to agree with you all the time? It was you who quoted my message so I guess it's you disagreeing with me on the 1st place? Did I prohibit you to disagree?

And do we have a say actually? Is that you who orders EBU what to do? No.

Discussion forum? Does someone urge you to agree with everything? Where? :shock:

Or it's you who organizes the contest?
I repeat. Does somebody shut your mouth and prohibit you to disagree???

Today Syria, tomorrow another country. Just accept the fact that some wants this to continue being a European contest.

Justa accept the fact that it's physically impossible for ESC to become Worldvision so "Today Syria, tomorrow another country" excuse is lame.
Accept the fact that some people think differently than you.
I am free to have whatever opinion about this as I want and I don't have to agree with your opinion and I have the right to express so, if I want to.

You don't have to care, but I don't see how a country that have competed in the contest for 30 years can be used as an excuse for new countries.

Exactly my words to you You were first who mentioned Israel participating for so many years, not me.

That's your opinion, I beg to differ though. You're entitled to disagree with me offcourse, but I am entitled to have my own opinion on the matter aswell and we are here to discuss this and we don't have to think the same all the time, and as I stated above we could also have opinions about the EBU's rules according this.

I'm happy that you're beg to differ but what's the use of this paragraph of yours? Did someone take your holy right to disagree from you?

 

[Matt]

Alright, let's just clear things up here.

1. Aleks was NOT saying Israel does not belong in ESC, he simply was using Israel as an example about not letting European countries into the contest (could use azerbaijan or even cyprus if you want to as an example) is a unfair and hypocritical thing to say cause if we allow one country then we cannot play judges and say this country is worthy and the other one is not.

2. We cannot say ESC is "gay" competition as that mostly applies to the Western european culture. IN eastern europe it is wildly popular everywhere. So just because syria does have rather anti gay stance does not disqualify them. That is a rule making no sense. What rules they need to follow are the ones set by the EBU.

3. I get that european have become a quite exclusive club but this is music and as long as the EBU is setting the rules, there is nothing we can do about. Sure we can share our opinions and either agree or disagree with that but at the end of the day there is nothing we can do about it and making judgments (at least some of the ones I can see here) are unfair and uncalled for.

 

[AlekS]

Not only, Israel won 3 times and hosted Esc in Jerusalem twice. Israel brought a lot of things to Esc, from Hallelujah to Dana International as the first trans in Esc.
So give me a favor!

So? Does that mean that you're more privileged than someone else (who actually has the same rights to join)?

 

[Israeliboy]

So? Does that mean that you're more privileged than someone else (who actually has the same rights to join)?

Aleks, leave it, I won't even answer to you!

 

[A-lister]

Ehm? Did somebody prohibit you to discuss?

Following your logic... am I supposed to agree with you all the time? It was you who quoted my message so I guess it's you disagreeing with me on the 1st place? Did I prohibit you to disagree?

And do we have a say actually? Is that you who orders EBU what to do? No.

Discussion forum? Does someone urge you to agree with everything? Where? :shock:

Or it's you who organizes the contest?
I repeat. Does somebody shut your mouth and prohibit you to disagree???

You don't have to agree with me and I never said that, you on the other hand made it clear that my opinion is more or less pointless since it's EBU who organizes it, and you do it again in this new comment.

No I don't organize it, nor do I "order" them anything (gosh you are joking right with these answers? Where did I write these things?), I'm just stating my opinion on the rules, which clearly you got some problem with, otherwise you wouldn't answer the way you are doing and misinterpret what I've written.

Justa accept the fact that it's physically impossible for ESC to become Worldvision so "Today Syria, tomorrow another country" excuse is lame.
Accept the fact that some people think differently than you.
I am free to have whatever opinion about this as I want and I don't have to agree with your opinion and I have the right to express so if I want to.



Exactly my words to you You were first who mentioned Israel participating for so amny years, not me.




I'm happy that you're beg to differ but what's the use of this paragraph of yours? Did someone take your holy right to disagree from you?

Your answers are not very accepting of other opinions AlekS. I don't have to write anything more on that. I'll respect your opinion, but respect is clearly not going both ways obviously.

I pointed out what I wanted to say and I rest my case, disagree with me as much as you want.

 

[goktengri]

If Syria accepts all EBU rules and wants to participate, who could stop them to participate ? EBU will accept them ! So, we're talking so much here but it doesn't really matter

 

[A-lister]

2. We cannot say ESC is "gay" competition as that mostly applies to the Western european culture. IN eastern europe it is wildly popular everywhere. So just because syria does have rather anti gay stance does not disqualify them. That is a rule making no sense. What rules they need to follow are the ones set by the EBU.

Well, personally I never use the "gay" argument since I've always seen Eurovision being more than just a "gay competition", although I acknowledge that in many countries it is widely seen as that, including my own country.

I think your comparison with Eastern Europe is very unfair though. In Syria (and all other countries in Northern Africa/Middle East, except for Israel) gay is a crime, it is NOT a crime in Eastern Europe.

 

[Matt]

I didn't compare syria and eastern europe. all i said is said in eastern europe it's not considered a "gay" contest

 

[AlekS]

You don't have to agree with me and I never said that, you on the other hand made it clear that my opinion is more or less pointless since it's EBU who organizes it, and you do it again in this new comment.

Now thats' what I call a clear disrespect.
Where did I say that your opinion is pointless? I said that you don't make decisions for EBU. Where did I say that your opinion is not important.

Your answers are not very accepting of other opinions AlekS. I don't have to write anything more on that. I'll respect your opinion, but respect is clearly not going both ways obviously.

And where I didn't ACCEPT your right to disagree?
And why should I think like you if I disagree with you?
Yes, I agree with you in 1 thing. Respect is clearly not going both ways obviously.

 

[A-lister]

I didn't compare syria and eastern europe. all i said is said in eastern europe it's not considered a "gay" contest

Oh lol sorry I misunderstood you point a bit then.

Well, you are right about that for sure!

As for MyHeart...'s comment though, I can sort of understand that in a way. Alot of fans AND even some broadcasters even will be turned off and will we see other type of censoring aswell??

I think it's tricky really. It's really not that simple I think as some make it look like. I think the Swedish broadcaster might pull out for instance. I mean our head of delegation is gay and alot of others there aswell, will they travel to a country where their sexuality is a crime?

 

[A-lister]

Now thats' what I call a clear disrespect.
Where did I say that your opinion is pointless? I said that you don't make decisions for EBU. Where did I say that your opinion is not important.

And where I didn't ACCEPT your right to disagree?
And why should I think like you if I disagree with you?
Yes, I agree with you in 1 thing. Respect is clearly not going both ways obviously.

I'll make this quick, as I really don't want to argue with you here.

Sorry AlekS, but the way you answered was like "oh well, think what you want but it doesn't matter anyhow". It may have not been your intention, but that's how it came across.

And again, no you don't have to think like me, and I never said that.

I think we should leave this, because there's already too much misunderstandings that it will just turn out wrong.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Matt, nobody is saying it should be an actual rule that countries must be gay-friendly but it's a matter of principle and morals to exclude a country that doesn't give full human rights to the majority of fans of the contest.
Anyway, what's the point - they're never going to join lol.

 

[AlekS]

@A-lister... "oh well, think what you want but it doesn't matter anyhow".
I never said that it doesn't matter
I said that it's EBU who decides. Sometimes they listen to public and sometimes they don't, but public (not just you btw, me too ) doesn't register decisions.
Sorry, but my opinion was clear and didn't come out across as rude.

Yeah, let's both stop arguing because there is too much of missunderstandings.

 

[Scooby]

Modern day Israel is much more european than many geographical european countries!

 

[AlekS]

for me Israel is etalon (model) from non-European (geographically) countries.
Like it or not but it will always be compared and it will always win the comparison
@Adir ... so I don't get why I should be treated in such way for mentioning Israel in this context. I meant that Israel deserved its place. Others should deserve it too. Also I don't get about history. You know how I treat Israel and I never said anything bad about it. Would be weird for a half-jew.

However nobody says that Syria should join right now.
Obviously this won't happen. Not in the few upcoming decades - for sure.

 

[bubblingtrue]

As if Syria would ever enter ESC!!