escYOUnited
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Switzerland SWITZERLAND 2021 - Gjon's Tears - Tout l’univers
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I didn't like Arcade either (I thought it was boring), but I had a soft spot for Répondez-moi (it was a memorable song) . But Tout l'univers is quite boring again - I can't remember the melody at all. I have no idea why people go crazy over the song. Just because the song might sound a bit sophisticated?I don't like Arcade, I don't like Répondez-moi and now I see people comparing Tout l'univers to Arcade and not surprisingly, I don't like it. Well, at least I can see a pattern on songs I don't like.And the title make me think of a title for children's book about space.
MalagaToledo
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Fun fact, betting odds are wrong again and and this time they are so wrong. They put all boring, slow, toilet break songs on top. I guess they don't think suisse will win. If they didn't get top 3 with Luca Hänni, Harry Potter will struggle even to finish in top 10. I will listen to it one or 2 more times max.
0 pts from me, just because he is overhyped.
Need i remind you that Long time ago there was esc 2019 and Duncan was clear favourite in odds, they gave him 70%, more than loreen had.
Need i remind you that he didn't win televote, nor did he win jurry. Enough Said.
0 pts from me, just because he is overhyped.
Need i remind you that Long time ago there was esc 2019 and Duncan was clear favourite in odds, they gave him 70%, more than loreen had.
Need i remind you that he didn't win televote, nor did he win jurry. Enough Said.
harey
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I don't know, but I don't try to guess why, tastes are just a strange thing happening. (And hype is calling hype, so I won't be surprised if he ends being a huge favourite at the end as I see that he's #1 on my eurovision scoreboard with a gap).
If you can understand French here is a video from a YouTube channel dedicated to crowd analysis and he made an experiment to see how people rank songs : https://youtu.be/ppSrAHoGwrI
If you can understand French here is a video from a YouTube channel dedicated to crowd analysis and he made an experiment to see how people rank songs : https://youtu.be/ppSrAHoGwrI
BorisBubbles
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Is Sacha even a good choice for Shitz? Her best work is with uptempo music.
HayashiM
Veteran
That's a very interesting video, thanks for sharing
His main conclusion the way I get it is: (provided people see what's popular with others while doing their rankings), good entries will generally be rewarded (a little), however the big frontrunners will be mostly determined by the initial hype that gains steam and then blows up out of proportions. Who gets the initial hype is up to fate / people who are the first to express their hype.
However, to which extent are his experimental conditions applicable to the ones of Eurovision?
In theory, the juries vote independently, and the public doesn't know anything about the actual results while taking the vote. So, if there is any hype, it doesn't happen as directly as in the video's experiment where people can immediately see how others have voted.
The "indirect hype" imo includes odds, views on youtube/replays on spotify, and fan rankings like the eurovision scoreboard app. It is, however, mostly pre-contest hype that does not directly reach everyone.
As for the televotes, how many of the people voting are actually aware of all these things? And how big percentage of the final televote do they make? My opinion is: very little, it's just the fandom that likes to overestimate its own importance. 80%+ of the people voting only get influenced by the people they watch the show with, but they know nothing about hype whatsoever. They don't really bother checking who's the odds favourite or whom are the wiwi's getting crazy about on this particular night. In other words, the televote is much closer to the independently voting pool from the experiment.
I see the juries, on the other hand, as much more likely to be influenced. Firstly, we know the theory of them not talking to each other about their rankings is not always respected. Also, they probably don't care much about fan polls either, but since they have to be invested in the contest for a longer period of time than the average televoter, I'd be very surprised if some of them didn't check the odds at the very least. Also, the overall effect of a hype influenced jurymember is much higher, because you only need to influence one person to somehow influence one fifth of that country's jurypoints (and that single person also impacts rankings of every contestant, while a single televoter doesn't).
So, if there is some hype effect applicable to Eurovision, I'd say it is much more likely to help anyone (in this case,
) with the juries.
Shadowfuxcs
Well-known member
I'd be interested to know why so many people draw comparisons between Arcade and Gjon's songs. Tout l'universe to me is a totally different genre than Arcade. These two songs would have never been included in the same album and it is hard to imagine that they would ever be recorded by the same singer. Apart from being a man and having a piano what more similarities are there?I don't like Arcade, I don't like Répondez-moi and now I see people comparing Tout l'univers to Arcade and not surprisingly, I don't like it. Well, at least I can see a pattern on songs I don't like.
I didn't like Arcade either (I thought it was boring), but I had a soft spot for Répondez-moi (it was a memorable song) . But Tout l'univers is quite boring again - I can't remember the melody at all. I have no idea why people go crazy over the song. Just because the song might sound a bit sophisticated?I don't like Arcade, I don't like Répondez-moi and now I see people comparing Tout l'univers to Arcade and not surprisingly, I don't like it. Well, at least I can see a pattern on songs I don't like.
Thank you for the great summary! I can understand French a little, but just a little (I had only two years French at school), so it helped a lot that you gave a summary! I also agree fully about what you said about the televotes (including the fandom-theory) and the Juries!That's a very interesting video, thanks for sharing
His main conclusion the way I get it is: (provided people see what's popular with others while doing their rankings), good entries will generally be rewarded (a little), however the big frontrunners will be mostly determined by the initial hype that gains steam and then blows up out of proportions. Who gets the initial hype is up to fate / people who are the first to express their hype.
However, to which extent are his experimental conditions applicable to the ones of Eurovision?
In theory, the juries vote independently, and the public doesn't know anything about the actual results while taking the vote. So, if there is any hype, it doesn't happen as directly as in the video's experiment where people can immediately see how others have voted.
The "indirect hype" imo includes odds, views on youtube/replays on spotify, and fan rankings like the eurovision scoreboard app. It is, however, mostly pre-contest hype that does not directly reach everyone.
As for the televotes, how many of the people voting are actually aware of all these things? And how big percentage of the final televote do they make? My opinion is: very little, it's just the fandom that likes to overestimate its own importance. 80%+ of the people voting only get influenced by the people they watch the show with, but they know nothing about hype whatsoever. They don't really bother checking who's the odds favourite or whom are the wiwi's getting crazy about on this particular night. In other words, the televote is much closer to the independently voting pool from the experiment.
I see the juries, on the other hand, as much more likely to be influenced. Firstly, we know the theory of them not talking to each other about their rankings is not always respected. Also, they probably don't care much about fan polls either, but since they have to be invested in the contest for a longer period of time than the average televoter, I'd be very surprised if some of them didn't check the odds at the very least. Also, the overall effect of a hype influenced jurymember is much higher, because you only need to influence one person to somehow influence one fifth of that country's jurypoints (and that single person also impacts rankings of every contestant, while a single televoter doesn't).
So, if there is some hype effect applicable to Eurovision, I'd say it is much more likely to help anyone (in this case,
I think it's not about these songs being similiar, just rather about the slow mood. I wouldn't want to compare them musically either cause they are very different.
And I don't have anything against slow songs or piano songs as long as they are done fine, but some are just plain boring and don't have much unique ideas.
FoxOfShadows
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Tout l'universe isn't really a slow song though, definitley nowhere near as slow as Arcade. I think the most prominent difference between the two is how Gjon's song really speeds up and explodes at the second chorus. There are similarites but tempo speed isn't one of themI think it's not about these songs being similiar, just rather about the slow mood. I wouldn't want to compare them musically either cause they are very different.
Preuss
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Yikes, only the gods can know the answer to that. Whenever she’s doing a staging, the gods toss the coin in the air and the fans holds its breath to see how it will land
BorisBubbles
Veteran
Same. Squiggles and emo rain. So profesh. Still a lot better than whatever she gave to Isaiah lmfao now *that* was some horrible staging.
SwedishFailurez
Banned
I think it's due to both songs having similar structures, are quite contemporary, and the chorus of respective songs has the artist shouting out (Gjon's falsetto and Duncan's whaling). There are still many differences like that "Tout l’univers" is more dramatic and bombastic which makes the impression instant, also keeping the lyrics in french makes the song appear mysterious because most people would not understand the song. "Arcade" however has a moodier tone and focuses heavily on the lyrics to capture the attention of the listener by letting the song itself sink in.
It also reflects how the bookies turned out. If I remember right, "Arcade" gradually become the bookie's favorite while "Tout l’univers" become the immediate favorite as soon the song was released.
Or maybe people are comparing these two because their respective music videos fulfill someone's strange fantasy... Duncan is swimming nude and Gjon is driving a flying car crashing like a meteor.
crashworld
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LOL! Or that horrendous staging Jessica Mauboy got.
BorisBubbles
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That's a funny way to spell "Hanna Ferm".
Iker
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Yeah, I think those comparison are far-fetched to say the least.
Iker
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I really liked 'Arcade' and I love 'Tout l'universe' - I actually find it better than 'Arcade'. I guess our tastes cannot overlap everywhere, lol. It would be too much already.I didn't like Arcade either (I thought it was boring), but I had a soft spot for Répondez-moi (it was a memorable song) . But Tout l'univers is quite boring again - I can't remember the melody at all. I have no idea why people go crazy over the song. Just because the song might sound a bit sophisticated?
Thank you for the great summary! I can understand French a little, but just a little (I had only two years French at school), so it helped a lot that you gave a summary! I also agree fully about what you said about the televotes (including the fandom-theory) and the Juries!
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SwedishFailurez
Banned
Like if the Australian delegation knew in advance that their songs were screw-ups as they invested much more on the forthcoming national final with songs like 2000 and Whatever and Kate's show number in the pipeline.
midnightsun
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Juries will almost never vote for a song that could do their reputation any harm or caused any provocation beforehand - therefore no controversial songs or songs that make them look biased (except for some countries *cough cough*). Songs with a strong message are favoured.
Also, they don’t want to be a scapegoat if their opinion leads to the downgrading of a song. So they will make a safe choice and usually never vote for songs that are at the bottom of the betting odds but going the easy way and vote for songs which have a good coverage in the media by fans and professional sites.
Safe songs that fall into the category are Switzerland, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Malta, France, UK, Ireland.
Finland and Italy are borderline. Usually juries are open minded enough to vote for these songs despite the inappropriate lyrics if they are pretty high in the odds, which is the case here, but I doubt any of both get a lot of jury 12s although they will probably in their top 10.
Russia is borderline too. Western juries won’t vote for this („too political“) but Eastern probably will for know reasons.
There may be some surprises like Macedonia, because of his voice or Georgia, because it’s so alternative but both are inoffensive, so safe choice.
Both Amens on the other hand may be too religious to be a safe choice for juries, despite very good voices.
The public will vote differently of course, as already was mentioned here, the quirky dance songs or „niche songs“ that will attract a certain audience who is eager to vote for surprising acts like Denmark, Portugal or Latvia. All songs are far from what is presented at the ESC usually musicwise but will gain some „ah‘s and oh‘s“ here and there. I can even see Norway doing well with the public.
But we will see. I already stated that juries might go full bold this year and will vote differently from their usual pattern because the contest is so different this year, with pre-recorded background vocals, no big show events beforehand, staging is limited I think, so maybe some surprises will await us here too! I‘m excited!
Also, they don’t want to be a scapegoat if their opinion leads to the downgrading of a song. So they will make a safe choice and usually never vote for songs that are at the bottom of the betting odds but going the easy way and vote for songs which have a good coverage in the media by fans and professional sites.
Safe songs that fall into the category are Switzerland, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Malta, France, UK, Ireland.
Finland and Italy are borderline. Usually juries are open minded enough to vote for these songs despite the inappropriate lyrics if they are pretty high in the odds, which is the case here, but I doubt any of both get a lot of jury 12s although they will probably in their top 10.
Russia is borderline too. Western juries won’t vote for this („too political“) but Eastern probably will for know reasons.
There may be some surprises like Macedonia, because of his voice or Georgia, because it’s so alternative but both are inoffensive, so safe choice.
Both Amens on the other hand may be too religious to be a safe choice for juries, despite very good voices.
The public will vote differently of course, as already was mentioned here, the quirky dance songs or „niche songs“ that will attract a certain audience who is eager to vote for surprising acts like Denmark, Portugal or Latvia. All songs are far from what is presented at the ESC usually musicwise but will gain some „ah‘s and oh‘s“ here and there. I can even see Norway doing well with the public.
But we will see. I already stated that juries might go full bold this year and will vote differently from their usual pattern because the contest is so different this year, with pre-recorded background vocals, no big show events beforehand, staging is limited I think, so maybe some surprises will await us here too! I‘m excited!
Preuss
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Bones was awful, and so was Replay. I absolutely hate those awful hand movements they did during those performances, atrociously awful and they both flopped big time, and so did Australia. I’m so tired of that biatch
But it looks like Sacha will only do songs I don’t particularly care about this year as she’ll be doing Albania and Georgia
Or maybe she’s doing Switzerland too