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Running order for 2013

Schlagerman1

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It is decided that Big 5 will get their draw during their individual press conferences, by drawing first or 2nd half. Sweden will be the only country to know it's exact starting postion today! :)
 

Schlagerman1

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The last 5 years placement for number 16 in the final:
2008: 15th
2009: 13th
2010: 19th
2011: 10th
2012: 17th

So around 15th place should be possible for us! :)
 

A-lister

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Isnt it about time that the Big 5 got to choose their own running order positions in the final?

No?

Nothing should be chosen... it's time to go back to the draw system... this "producer's choosing running-order" is an unacceptable change which hurts the contest's credibility... country biasism and corruption here we go!
 

QwaarJet

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Isnt it about time that the Big 5 got to choose their own running order positions in the final?

You really are unbelievable. There is no justification for allowing a country to select It's own position, no matter how much money they pay. This is a contest, and allowing certain countries to select their own position would nullify that, along with having mass withdrawals they year after.
 

wittgenstein

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I just learned that SVT will set the running order! Is this a joke? Please tell me its a joke...

Is it too late to change the mind of Mr Björkman? I could arrange a petition.
 

Schlagerman1

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It is too late for this year, but you could always make one to take it away til 2014. I would signed it immidietly!
 

A-lister

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I just learned that SVT will set the running order! Is this a joke? Please tell me its a joke...

Is it too late to change the mind of Mr Björkman? I could arrange a petition.

This whole change is already a big joke... and considering the bad taste of Mr Björkman and the predictable running-orders in MF it's a catastrophe!

I want transparency and fairness back to the contest! If someone is able to create a serious petition then let's create it today... even if they won't care atleast we should show that we're not approving of this crappy change!
 

DanielLuis

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As happy I am with this starting position, it's kinda comical still and will not go down well with the rest of the countries considering the system change on how to pick the running order :lol:

It was a draw though, it wasnt SVT's choice.
 

Matt

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That was definetely supposed to be a joke right?


Nope, he means it. He also made a statement that the UK should get a voting advantage (and other big countries) since they have a higher population and it wouldn't be fair if a smaller country has the same odds....
 

DanielLuis

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Nope, he means it. He also made a statement that the UK should get a voting advantage (and other big countries) since they have a higher population and it wouldn't be fair if a smaller country has the same odds....

:lol: I remember when he said that. That's literally what I call hypocrisy.
 

Matt

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:lol: I remember when he said that. That's literally what I call hypocrisy.


Well, since I'm German I'm all for it :twisted:

Seriously though, so if I understood everything correctly, the Semi Qualifiers will still get randomly selected towards either the first or second half of the show with the producer picking the order from that on????
It's slightly better (but not much). Make it at least 4 groups.
 

A-lister

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It was a draw though, it wasnt SVT's choice.

I know it was a draw, but considering EBU accepted a change to the system which just opens up for corruption and conspiracies it certainly doesn't look good :lol:
 

wittgenstein

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Jesus, this is such a bad idea. I know that the random draw from year to year also could be unfair but this thing svt is doing is bad for the contest I think.

What could be a better alternative? There must be one not thought of yet.
 

A-lister

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Well, since I'm German I'm all for it :twisted:

Seriously though, so if I understood everything correctly, the Semi Qualifiers will still get randomly selected towards either the first or second half of the show with the producer picking the order from that on????
It's slightly better (but not much). Make it at least 4 groups.

Yes, it seems that's their solution... I guess it's slightly better as you say, but still not good.

And yeah, if they really insist on this new change then 4 groups would be more fair (beginning, middle first half, middle second half, ending).
 

Mannone

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So Sweden only have got their position decided? All of the other countries will be drawn to either the first or second half of the final and SVT will then design the running order for the first and second half, independently. Interesting changes. I made a little counting, maybe it has already been posted on here. These are the rank sums (of the final placings) of the first and second half, independently, since 2000. If the total number of finalists have been an odd number (as in 2001, we had 23 countries, the position in the exact middle have not been counted to any of the halfs). Bolded are years when the first half had the best results (= lowest sums).

Year - First half sum - Second half sum

2012: 192 - 159
2011: 148 - 152
2010: 199 - 117
2009: 143 - 192
2008: 196 - 116
2007: 174 - 126
2006: 186 - 114
2005: 133 - 167
2004: 142 - 158
2003: 165 - 184
2002: 136 - 160
2001: 169 - 86
2000: 173 - 126

Total: 2156 - 1857

Number of songs in each population: 13x2 + 11 + 12x10 = 157

Wilcoxon rank-sum (test for statistical significance): 2.20583%, 97.7942%

Actually, it was some time since I dealt with statistical testing, so a slight reservation that this attempt failed on any of the premises. With an indication of almost 98 % certainty though, I'd suspect we may conclude that a late position has been advantageous over the past 13 years. However, in 6 of 7 cases, the first half was still better overall.

And the winning positions (2000 to 2012): 14, 20, 23, 4, 10, 19, 17, 17, 24, 20, 22, 19, 16. Well, it get's brighter this way. First-half positions have only won 2 of 13. However, of the remaining 11 winners, about half of them have had positions 20+.

In a tough year like this one then, it seems like your hope for victory is severely reduced if you end up in the first half, and even more markedly in positions 1-10. We may just hope to get proven different and send an extra vote for our early favourites.

Do I prefer the producers to design the running order? Well, the most important thing seem to lie in whether you end up in the first or second half, rather than if your exact position is 15 or 22. Maybe they can adjust the running order to achieve better entertainment. If that happens to be the case, then I wont oppose the new drawing procedures too much. However, it will always be more exciting, and justifiably satisfying, if the ballot is aimed at positions as it uses to be. This new division feels a little stigmatizing in a "you can't win" or "you may win" sort of sense. So yes then, I prefer the normal procedure. However, it may be compensated for if SVT in some sense can make every entry shine in comparison to their given entourage.
 
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