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Israel ISRAEL 2018 - Netta Barzilai - Toy

How do you rate the entry?

  • 12

    124 39.6%
  • 10

    25 8.0%
  • 8

    20 6.4%
  • 7

    24 7.7%
  • 6

    15 4.8%
  • 5

    10 3.2%
  • 4

    9 2.9%
  • 3

    9 2.9%
  • 2

    6 1.9%
  • 1

    10 3.2%
  • 0

    61 19.5%

  • Total voters
    313

Kicker

Well-known member
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February 26, 2011
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2,416
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Spain
Nobody told you that you are forced to like it and everybody is fine with you not liking it. But telling everyone that your taste in music is superior and people who like it don't have actual music taste indeed is ridiculous. It's okay for everybody if you don't like the song, but then please don't disturb the people who do like it.

And by the way, I bet the number of dislikes doesn't has to do with the song but with Nettas appearance. Which shows that humans are very cruel and superficial, especially in the internet.
 

Bsimmons

Member
Joined
December 16, 2016
Posts
476
Nobody told you that you are forced to like it and everybody is fine with you not liking it. But telling everyone that your taste in music is superior and people who like it don't have actual music taste indeed is ridiculous. It's okay for everybody if you don't like the song, but then please don't disturb the people who do like it.

And by the way, I bet the number of dislikes doesn't has to do with the song but with Nettas appearance. Which shows that humans are very cruel and superficial, especially in the internet.

You are confusing me to somebody else ... I have never said my music taste is superior.
 

ZoboCamel

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May 18, 2012
Posts
4,530
Location
Melbourne, Australia
You are confusing me to somebody else ... I have never said my music taste is superior.

Weren't you literally saying just the other day that people who disagree with your music tastes have a lower IQ? :lol:
 

Bsimmons

Member
Joined
December 16, 2016
Posts
476
Weren't you literally saying just the other day that people who disagree with your music tastes have a lower IQ? :lol:

No. This is what I said:

No, I am basically saying that I would be disappointed of our collective IQ (including me) as Europeans if Israel song would win or finish very high.

Collective IQ is very different from individual IQ-s/musical taste.
 

Chorizo

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Joined
May 9, 2014
Posts
4,346
all televote winners are by definition popular, she will go down as a winner like any other and eric cartman has definitely shown us that licking tears is possible and enjoyable

Not like any other, but like Russia 2008. That was also "popular". :lol:
 

Alaska49

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Joined
April 18, 2013
Posts
2,895
Not like any other, but like Russia 2008. That was also "popular". :lol:
netta got more televote points than dima and dima is incredibly popular in eastern europe to this day regardless. nobody becomes popular from eurovision in the west these days anyway. netta will be remembered much the same way as lordi and there is absolutely nothing you can say to make it untrue. i repeat: DIE MAD ABOUT IT FOREVER.
 

Bsimmons

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Joined
December 16, 2016
Posts
476
10+ years from now Netta will be remembered as: "Oh yeah, that fat woman who did chicken noises/chicken dance".
Just like Conchita will be remembered as: "Woman with a beard"

... and I am not sure you want to go to ESC history as a winner who will be remembered by people because of something they SAW not by something they HEARD. Its still a SONG contest after all. But ok I am sure for some countries winning matters too much to do it anyway possible and I can not blame them - its their choice. I am just happy my country is not in that list.
 

musicfan

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Joined
May 18, 2012
Posts
1,585
10+ years from now Netta will be remembered as: "Oh yeah, that fat woman who did chicken noises/chicken dance".
Just like Conchita will be remembered as: "Woman with a beard"

... and I am not sure you want to go to ESC history as a winner who will be remembered by people because of something they SAW not by something they HEARD. Its still a SONG contest after all. But ok I am sure for some countries winning matters too much to do it anyway possible and I can not blame them - its their choice. I am just happy my country is not in that list.

It's a song festival. The contest aspect is about a whole loads of things not just songs.
 

Bsimmons

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December 16, 2016
Posts
476
It's a song festival. The contest aspect is about a whole loads of things not just songs.

Its not called Eurovision Song Festival, but Eurovision Song Contest ... which to me means contest of songs. And it does not surprise anyone in the world anymore that so much else goes into that than just singing and I accept it to some degree, but if everything else (stage, dancing, gimmicks etc.) becomes much more important than the song itself and the singing part, that`s the point I get annoyed. Why? Because I feel I am being fooled to like an entry that hides the poor/average quality of the song behind everything else. And I don`t like to be fooled.
 

popavapeur

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Joined
February 19, 2015
Posts
1,829
Location
Paris (France)
10+ years from now Netta will be remembered as: "Oh yeah, that fat woman who did chicken noises/chicken dance".
Just like Conchita will be remembered as: "Woman with a beard".

I mean, we remember them. As I remember Herreys with their funny dance but I couldn't give you the winner just before and after. So I remember their dance and that makes me remember the song. I didn't like Jamala so I didn't listen to the song a lot and I have to say that I remember Diggiloo DiggiLey better than 1944. The worst is being forgotten in today's life cause everything is happening so fast, so maybe you'll remember Toy for negative reasons, but you'll remember it and as people remember, it's still living.

Its not called Eurovision Song Festival, but Eurovision Song Contest ... which to me means contest of songs. And it does not surprise anyone in the world anymore that so much else goes into that than just singing and I accept it to some degree, but if everything else (stage, dancing, gimmicks etc.) becomes much more important than the song itself and the singing part, that`s the point I get annoyed. Why? Because I feel I am being fooled to like an entry that hides the poor/average quality of the song behind everything else. And I don`t like to be fooled.

Actually I don't feel the song is poor. Why ? cause I have some music knowledge and trust me or not, the song is composed in a tricky way that makes it interesting in a technical side of things. When everything is mixed you just hear the whole result, but I you pull apart stuff, it's quite busy and intricate which makes it richer for me. Amar Pelos Dois is very simple in its construction, that's very poor and not really interesting technically, but that doesn't mean the song is worse than Toy, it's just a different way of making stuff. What's The Pressure for Belgium 2016 is also quite poor but still enjoyable, different genre.

And last point, We already discussed that many times here, but you're not dumb, you know that Eurovision is a TV show, you're still not dumb and you know we're in 2018 and everything is visual. It's almost impossible to have a single without its music video today. Cause it comes together in 2018 (unless you're too poor to afford something else than a lyric video, but..still a video). It's been like that since the beginning of time, we see people in concert cause we need the visual AND the "real" sound. That can't be a "song contest" when Salvador wins with a VISUAL intimate staging, with lights in the audience, with precise camera shots that have been thoughts before and it couldn't be a song contest when a girl is dancing in front of a camera ? Since people can watch Eurovision it always have been a contest of a song + visual presentation, How France Gall could have won without her facial expressions and her so-trendy hairstyle of that era ? We all know here what Eurovision is all about. If you discovered it on Saturday, well... you knew it, you're not dumb.
 

Bsimmons

Member
Joined
December 16, 2016
Posts
476
That can't be a "song contest" when Salvador wins with a VISUAL intimate staging, with lights in the audience, with precise camera shots that have been thoughts before and it couldn't be a song contest when a girl is dancing in front of a camera ?

I agree with most of what you said. We just have different expectations in that song contest. You want to see the whole package. I care much more about the song/singing part of it.

You can not compare Salvador with Netta. Because if we cut all the visuals Salvador still probably wins (you try to make it sound like his act had the best visuals ever, but it was just very simple stuff), but if we cut Netta`s visuals, I seriously doubt this would have won.

Like Salvador, I was hoping that maybe ESC is moving back to the direction where visuals mean less and singing and song mean more, but as this year proved, sadly its not the case. Can not wait for that zoo of sounds that breaks loose a year from now.
 

popavapeur

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Joined
February 19, 2015
Posts
1,829
Location
Paris (France)
I agree with most of what you said. We just have different expectations in that song contest. You want to see the whole package. I care much more about the song/singing part of it.

You can not compare Salvador with Netta. Because if we cut all the visuals Salvador still probably wins (you try to make it sound like his act had the best visuals ever, but it was just very simple stuff), but if we cut Netta`s visuals, I seriously doubt this would have won.

Like Salvador, I was hoping that maybe ESC is moving back to the direction where visuals mean less and singing and song mean more, but as this year proved, sadly its not the case. Can not wait for that zoo of sounds that breaks loose a year from now.

But the fact is : you can't cut the visuals. I know you want to base solely on the song but you can't and you won't. that will never happen in the ESC, visuals matters ! they are equally important as the song itself, Moldova wouldn't have gone through without the funny door staging, Russia 2016 wouldn't have get 1st place in the televote without the crazy mapping. And for me Salvador had "visuals". There's no "no visual" or "a lot of visuals", there's just different kind of visuals : intimate, dark-ish, bubblegum, crazy bat shit and so on. So for me Portugal played the "visual game" too. Salvador was on the center island on a purpose, they could have put him on the main stage as everybody else but they wanted to play the "intimate visual" feeling so to do it, they moved him there. It surely played a role in its success. We can't replay the past, but if they have put him on the main stage looking alone in a empty space (Hello France 2017) with too much lights (Hello France 2017 too), who would have won ? still Portugal or Bulgaria ? we'll never know. But visual matters and Amar Pelos Dois is also a visual performance imho.

I won't say that ESC is not for you, I think you'll still find enjoyment in it but unfortunately you don't like the biggest part of this contest which is the Song+staging combination. I understand how you feel but you'll have to get used to it and keep your fingers crossed for more Salvador-alike songs in the future.
 

musicfan

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2012
Posts
1,585
I don't think the voting and placings are the biggest part of the event, if anything they are something to be amused by most of the time. How do you even compare for example the Hungarian song to the Moldovan, Albanian or Lithuanian for instance. All are different styles. And to say that all those from the semis that qualified are the best is also questionable, or that those that won the preselections are the best all the time.
 

PashonFrut

Active member
Joined
October 1, 2009
Posts
2,268
so ... is it gonna be in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv?

some say it's gonna be held in another country due to safety issues
 

Alaska49

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Joined
April 18, 2013
Posts
2,895
i actually do think kan should host it in partnership with another channel because it looks a bit unsustainable. how about cyprus? not that cyprus is free of drama but it's very manageable. it's also relatively close to israel. it also hosted jesc ten years ago. it's an idea.
 

Bsimmons

Member
Joined
December 16, 2016
Posts
476
Israel secret service is one of the best (if not THE best) in the world, so I think where ever they decide to do it, it will be the safest place in the world for 2 weeks.
 
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