Live EUROVISION SONG CONTEST 2022 FINAL DISCUSSION

[Sean]

Please use this thread to discuss rehearsals in general and also to follow along with all of the live shows in Turin.

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[Bobjan FR]

I think if EBU finally decide to sanction countries cheating, it's a good thing. But can't we see that semi-final votes from juries that were suspicious ? ...

 

[Ausesken]

Spanish hooligans really think that without the massive voting for Ukraine Spain would have won. 1. Perhaps we'd have won, or perhaps not, it's impossible to know it. 2. It's useless focusing on what could have happened and didn't happen. It just didn't happen, get over it. 3. You cannot just ignore Ukraine with the excuse of the war. They have the right to be there and participate in Eurovision if they want to, if people decided to vote for them (for whatever reasons), well, let's accept it and fight for the win another year. At least we know we can do it if RTVE works for it. The UK got rid of the idea that 'they hate us' but Spain got rid of the idea that 'they don't vote for us because they vote for their neighbour countries'. I already explained in the thread my theory about why these Spanish eurofans are so toxic.

 

[HayashiM]

I read. Thank you for sharing.
It sounds very vague, as the whole article is based on according to some sources e.g rumours.
Azerbaijan and Georgia did not vote for each other, both gave their high votes for a different country (Ukraine). Georgia did not give high points to Azerbaijan in Semi-Final 2 either. Azerbaijan received high points from Germany, Spain, UK, Finland etc.

And since when voting for each other was banned in ESC. All these years Finland gave most of their 12 points to Sweden, there is Greece-Cyprus, Romania-Moldova 12 points exchange or Balkan countries vote for each other and Scandinavian countries for each other. Do they do this intentionally or unintentionally we do not know, however their votes are always very predictable.

I think the EBU just wanted to get 24 points from Azerbaijan (12p) and Georgia (12p) for the UK, and then they needed only 1 point to place the song second. Most likely, they also got that 1 point from the other six "bad connection" countries in order to win the jury and be second on the televoting to be able to host the ESCin the UK next year. There is no other logical explanation for all of this.

Both Ukraine and the UK are the winners. I do not mind victory for Ukraine and hosting a show in London. I am sure it will be one of the best host show.

Tbh, this doesn't make much sense. EBU doesn't know how many points will there be from the televote until seconds before they start announcing results from the juryvote, and they already have to have the juryvote scoreboards ready at that point.

What you suggest isn't 100% impossible, however it is rather far fetched. The reddit posts on the other hand make perfect mathematical sense and even if this leaves a bad taste for some, I think that it really is the best thing EBU can do in cases it finds someone cheating.

 

[HayashiM]

Btw, I think it's perfectly reasonable to not tell the countries involved in cheating until after the finals. Firstly, it leaves room to see whether the patterns will repeat themselves once again in the finals, which can further prove the guilt. Secondly, it doesn't leave any room for the cheaters to raise some sort of scandal directly during the contest, affecting it any further. Lastly the concerned parties have already cheated, there's little need to communicate to them that they have been exposed before it is really necessary. It's not like they could "correct their scoreboards" all of a sudden.

EBU and Eurovision are the victims whose names got attacked here, and not the cheating juries. I understand it's not directly the countries who are at fault, but at the same time, I hope all individuals responsible for this mess get a proper slap and don't get allowed anywhere near Eurovision ever again.

 

[Realest]

s real Juryvoting.

would have been 2nd and 3rd.

In the Juryvoting would have been 5th and 6th
and 22 and 23rd

 

[AlekS]

Get 'em, gurl!

Azerbaijani broadcaster is also clearly not happy with the EBU.

 

[Loindici]

A plot twist in my head is, the irregular voting patterns were actually not there, but EBU are 'testing' these broadcasters to see how they would react.

And if this is what it actually is... Good Lord, bless us.

 

[Etanna]

Read this
https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/uq9n1e
and then this

https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/uqk9xy

Thank you, this was an interesting read (even though it's too much math for me so I'll just trust you guys that it makes sense ).

I don't know what happened and how the EBU should have reacted so I'll keep quiet on that but it just struck me how much power the juries have. Not only do we have 5 random people (most of whom probably aren't really experts and are mostly just voting based on their taste and their co-jurors' reactions anyway) deciding half of a country's points but now it's being magnified in some cases by using the very same jury votes to aggregate results for several more countries.

 

[ESC_FAN]

Spanish hooligans really think that without the massive voting for Ukraine Spain would have won. 1. Perhaps we'd have won, or perhaps not, it's impossible to know it. 2. It's useless focusing on what could have happened and didn't happen. It just didn't happen, get over it. 3. You cannot just ignore Ukraine with the excuse of the war. They have the right to be there and participate in Eurovision if they want to, if people decided to vote for them (for whatever reasons), well, let's accept it and fight for the win another year. At least we know we can do it if RTVE works for it. The UK got rid of the idea that 'they hate us' but Spain got rid of the idea that 'they don't vote for us because they vote for their neighbour countries'. I already explained in the thread my theory about why these Spanish eurofans are so toxic.

This is not entirely fair, since many countries play at a disadvantage. Because we all knew that Ukraine in such a situation would win the televote, they should not have participated.
In addition, if you add that there have been irregularities in the juries of six countries, they have harmed several countries, especially Spain. I don't think we would have won, but perhaps we would have been in second place

 

[Zerocalcare]

This is not entirely fair, since many countries play at a disadvantage. Because we all knew that Ukraine in such a situation would win the televote, they should not have participated.
In addition, if you add that there have been irregularities in the juries of six countries, they have harmed several countries, especially Spain. I don't think we would have won, but perhaps we would have been in second place

What changes being in second or third place? Do you know who is the runner-up? The first of the losers. We are making too much ado about nothing. Nothing changes. You have to accept it or your liver will burst. I do not judge you badly but I say it for your health.

 

[ESC_FAN]

What changes being in second or third place? Do you know who is the runner-up? The first of the losers. We are making too much ado about nothing. Nothing changes. You have to accept it or your liver will burst. I do not judge you badly but I say it for your health.

I prefer be on the second place.

 

[Zeus]

s real Juryvoting.

would have been 2nd and 3rd.

In the Juryvoting would have been 5th and 6th
and 22 and 23rd

Moldova first with a juryranking, really?

Come on, these juries man.. They are becoming more friendly towards neighbour countries than the televoters, what's the point so far.

As I said earlier, get rid of all these juries, just go with an expert panel from like 100 people. Get real musicians in it. Siccesful orchestra people, I don't care. Some classy ex-participants like Gjons Tears, Anouk, Sam Ryder, Tamara Todevska.. Keep all these names a secret and try to get good names. No local radio-dj's from Georgia or Moldova who can use a bit of extra money anymore.

And make it count like only 25-33% or something.

 

[ESC_FAN]

Moldova first with a juryranking, really?

Come on, these juries man.. They are becoming more friendly towards neighbour countries than the televoters, what's the point so far.

As I said earlier, get rid of all these juries, just go with an expert panel from like 100 people. Get real musicians in it. Siccesful orchestra people, I don't care. Some classy ex-participants like Gjons Tears, Anouk, Sam Ryder, Tamara Todevska.. Keep all these names a secret and try to get good names. No local radio-dj's from Georgia or Moldova who can use a bit of extra money anymore.

And make it count like only 25-33% or something.

As if Romania were the only country that did

 

[ESC_12 points]

Tbh, this doesn't make much sense. EBU doesn't know how many points will there be from the televote until seconds before they start announcing results from the juryvote, and they already have to have the juryvote scoreboards ready at that point.

What you suggest isn't 100% impossible, however it is rather far fetched. The reddit posts on the other hand make perfect mathematical sense and even if this leaves a bad taste for some, I think that it really is the best thing EBU can do in cases it finds someone cheating.

I think we are all capable here to do our own simple math too, and count that Azerbaijani and Georgian votes (24 points) helped the UK to have one point less than Spain, and another 1 missing point jury got from another "bad connection" country. Someone can possibly tell later which country it was. May be from Romania?

In addition, the EBU changed the results last minute by giving Ukrainian 12+12points from Azerbaijan and Georgia to the UK. The EBU has the results of the jury not in the last minute itself but at least 15 minutes in advance, and a computer program can calculate the results automatically in 5 seconds before they announce to the public that the results are ready, I mean before the presenters ask the head of the EBU if the result are ready, they collect the results of all the jury in advance at least 10-15 minutes to fix the results of the jury, otherwise, the juries can change their mind last minute.

Again, it is only my opinion, and I do not inflict it to anybody, but I think the purpose of it was not "bad connection", or punish countries that voted for each other, which than would be more than six countries in the list, but to make the UK to be placed first in jury and second in the televoting in order to host Eurovision in the UK.

Otherwise, the EBU would not count "bad connection" votes at all, or count only their televoting, or give those points not to the UK or Ukraine, but to Spain or Sweden or even Germany or why not to other random countries?

I am pleased with the result. I voted for Ukraine and I was very proud of Sam. He made us all proud from last year's zero to this year's hero. I hope Ukraine allows the UK to host the show now. The time will show if I am right or wrong, if the UK hosts the ESC next year.

 

[ESC_FAN]

I think we are all capable here to do our own simple math too, and count that Azerbaijani and Georgian votes (24 points) helped the UK to have one point less than Spain, and another 1 missing point jury got from another "bad connection" country. Someone can possibly tell later which country it was. May be from Romania?

In addition, the EBU changed the results last minute by giving Ukrainian 12+12points from Azerbaijan and Georgia to the UK. The EBU has the results of the jury not in the last minute itself but at least 15 minutes in advance, and a computer program can calculate the results automatically in 5 seconds before they announce to the public that the results are ready, I mean before the presenters ask the head of the EBU if the result are ready, they collect the results of all the jury in advance at least 10-15 minutes to fix the results of the jury, otherwise, the juries can change their mind last minute.

Again, it is only my opinion, and I do not inflict it to anybody, but I think the purpose of it was not "bad connection", or punish countries that voted for each other, which than would be more than six countries in the list, but to make the UK to be placed first in jury and second in the televoting in order to host Eurovision in the UK.

Otherwise, the EBU would not count "bad connection" votes at all, or count only their televoting, or give those points not to the UK or Ukraine, but to Spain or Sweden or even Germany or why not to other random countries?

I am pleased with the result. I voted for Ukraine and I was very proud of Sam. He made us all proud from last year's zero to this year's hero. I hope Ukraine allows the UK to host the show now. The time will show if I am right or wrong, if the UK hosts the ESC next year.

How can you not be happy if the result benefits you?

 

[Lugano]

When do you think that date would be? End of July when the bidding process for cities usually begins? End of the summer? Or even later/end of 2022?

The bidding process for cities can be quite drawn out as well. Seem to remember it took a month or two to decide on the city in Israel/The Netherlands/Italy

I don't know, but I assume the EBU will make it as late as they think is possible to facilitate Ukraine. My guess would be September/October but that's really just speculation.

 

[Lugano]

I think and I admit that I can be wrong, Azerbaijani and Georgian votes were given to the UK not because they cheated, but because the EBU wanted the UK to come second

That makes no sense at all.

 

[Lugano]

I wonder if Ukraine agrees to give its host country right to the UK?

You don't have to wonder about that as Ukraine doesn't get to decide who hosts if they refuse or can't fulfill the requirements.

 

[harey]

So whoever belly dances next year is the winner

Belly hypnotic, make you want more, more, more, more, more

 

[ESC_FAN]

I wonder if Ukraine agrees to give its host country right to the UK?

If Volodimir Zelensky has said that he will be hosted by Ukraine