Live EUROVISION SONG CONTEST 2022 FINAL DISCUSSION

[Sean]

Please use this thread to discuss rehearsals in general and also to follow along with all of the live shows in Turin.

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[AlekS]

Laura Pausini got COVID:

 

[ESC_12 points]

Yes, they did !
What i was saying by "detailed of juries votes" is what you call "scoreboards" . And yes, they are absent ... because the juries vote have been replaced.


The czech jury vote had no problem. The detail of their vote is under the ranking of the top 10.

For romania and poland, theses details votes are missing, there is only the ranking of the top 10
And as i was saying, Romania and Poland got the same vote in semi-final :

.... Why are they identical ? Because their real vote have been removed. Poland and Romania are in the same "Pot"(and not "hat" like i wrote ealier, ups) , so the "algorithm" used to determine their fake jury vote include the same countries.

And it's the same with azerbaijan, georgia and san marino who got the same jury vote in semi-final as well, the reason is their vote have been replaced. (And montenegro is isolated)

And if you ask you "Why san marino fake jury vote is the same as Georgia and azerbaijan ? They are not in the same Pot." You are right, and the reason is explained in the post i quoted before : Because there is twice less countries voting in the semi-final, they put the pots together by two, so the Pot 3, including azerbaijan and georgia, and the pot 4, including San marino, are together. And their jury votes as based on the votes of the juries of the countries of theses pots that are in semi final two, so : Israel, Cyprus, and Malta.

As well, the Romanian and Polish fake jury vote was based on the countries of Pots 5 and 6, so : Estonia, belgium, czech republic, ireland
And The montenegrin fake jury vote was based on the countries of pots 1 and 2, so : North Macedonia, Serbia, Australia, Sweden, Finland

You are right their votes look identical. I wonder why they did not put their own juries. Say we already knew that Romania would give 12points to Moldova and Greece to Cyprus or Finland to Sweden and Azerbaijan to Georgia would give also each other high points. Yet, this is not something that they would do just this year but for years.

 

[Bobjan FR]

I discovered something tonight. You remember, 2014 was the first year we had the total details jury and public votes ?

In 2014, the georgia jury have been excluded as well after the semi-final, because 4 of the 5 juries had exactly the same top 8. I agree on this, they clearly made it together.

But i was looking for it right now and..... i discovered that the detailed jury + public votes of 2014 and 2015 are not on the eurovision website anymore They are available only from 2016, when the voting system have been changed... Why ? T_T

 

[ESC_12 points]

I discovered something tonight. You remember, 2014 was the first year we had the total details jury and public votes ?

In 2014, the georgia jury have been excluded as well after the semi-final, because 4 of the 5 juries had exactly the same top 8. I agree on this, they clearly made it together.

But i was looking for it right now and..... i discovered that the detailed jury + public votes of 2014 and 2015 are not on the eurovision website anymore They are available only from 2016, when the voting system have been changed... Why ? T_T

This alll sounds terrible. I lost my trust to the EBU when they blindly lied about the "bad connection". Why they do not specify what was the fault of Georgia in 2014 but instead they hide It and put the result from 2016. After all we vote and spendmoney for our selections, and we do not want the EBU interfere with our choices.

I think the best would be the anonymous juries something like the Voice, the points would be received to the country but from which country it would be not important. Each country would announce themselves how many points they receive, rather than each country would announce how many points they give.
For example, Georgia announces that they received 235 points from the jury and add later 125 from televoting, instead of 12 points go to Ukraine and then later add the Georgian points from televoting.

Or another solution, , for example, Georgian juri would be not all Georgians but say one Georgian, one German, one Greece, one Finnish. And Georgian jury would equally represent German, Greece, Finland as juries e.g exchange of juries from each country without knowing ahead which country's jury will represent during the Eurovision week. Also, ban two juris from the same country to represent one county for example, two Georgian juries to represent Germany. Make random selection of juries and countries. In this case, it will be hard say for "Moldovan" juri , who are represented by Moldovan, Georgian, Finnish, Italian, and German juries to give 12 points to Romania or Greece to Cyprus.

 

[ESC94]

I discovered something tonight. You remember, 2014 was the first year we had the total details jury and public votes ?

In 2014, the georgia jury have been excluded as well after the semi-final, because 4 of the 5 juries had exactly the same top 8. I agree on this, they clearly made it together.

But i was looking for it right now and..... i discovered that the detailed jury + public votes of 2014 and 2015 are not on the eurovision website anymore They are available only from 2016, when the voting system have been changed... Why ? T_T

You can still see them on Wikipedia:

Austria in the Eurovision Song Contest 2014 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And then just click trough the countries.

 

[AlekS]

Shoutout to everyone attacking our jury for not giving Poland any points in the final

 

[midnightsun]

While I get WHY these measures had to be (rightfully) taken, it still raises many questions about the EBU. And I don’t think what they did was well done.

The substitute votes from the EBU, given to the cheating countries, resemble pretty much the jury vote of Malta, for example. So, did Malta and EBU coordinate their votes too?

Also, why was the "algorithm" changed in comparison to 2019 where all the points were given to the last ten 10 countries, thus having much less influence than now, where a bunch of countries got lots and lots of extra points because all points from the removed countries went to the same countries!

Why didn’t the EBU raise any questions when all five German jurors put the same country as their #1 in the years 2013-2018? (Answer: because it was mostly Sweden )

I do believe that certain countries are corrupt and try to rig votes all the time. But there is fraud in most other juries too. Let it be all juries voting for the same #1, let it be favourite countries don’t give points to the competing other favourites on purpose, the Azerbaijan - Armenia issue, block voting in many parts of Europe etc.

The jury system must be renewed.

Anyway, I hope we will get a contest next year without all the drama and trouble of this year.

 

[Zerocalcare]

Let's stop for a moment to talk about ESC to pay tribute to a great artist who left us.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Thank you for giving us your art, Vangelis We will miss you very much

 

[Yoozek]

Oh for f*cks sake. Without all this bullshit, Ochman would be TOP3 in his SF, which would mean I F*CKING WON THAT MONEY ON THAT BET AFTER ALL.

 

[Yoozek]

Not to mention... These pots. And the alghorithm using the history. So in any case, Sweden always gets 12 and San Marino always get 0 cause they sucked in the past? Lmao.

 

[Synergise]

Not to mention... These pots. And the alghorithm using the history. So in any case, Sweden always gets 12 and San Marino always get 0 cause they sucked in the past? Lmao.

To clarify, the algorithm's results aren't based on historical results directly. The algorithm just uses the jury rankings of countries that have voted similarly to each of the cheating countries in the past. It doesn't matter that Sweden did really well in the past or that San Marino did badly - just that Sweden did well with the juries this year, and San Marino did badly this year.

While I get WHY these measures had to be (rightfully) taken, it still raises many questions about the EBU. And I don’t think what they did was well done.

The substitute votes from the EBU, given to the cheating countries, resemble pretty much the jury vote of Malta, for example. So, did Malta and EBU coordinate their votes too?

Also, why was the "algorithm" changed in comparison to 2019 where all the points were given to the last ten 10 countries, thus having much less influence than now, where a bunch of countries got lots and lots of extra points because all points from the removed countries went to the same countries!

Why didn’t the EBU raise any questions when all five German jurors put the same country as their #1 in the years 2013-2018? (Answer: because it was mostly Sweden )

I do believe that certain countries are corrupt and try to rig votes all the time. But there is fraud in most other juries too. Let it be all juries voting for the same #1, let it be favourite countries don’t give points to the competing other favourites on purpose, the Azerbaijan - Armenia issue, block voting in many parts of Europe etc.

The jury system must be renewed.

Anyway, I hope we will get a contest next year without all the drama and trouble of this year.

Whilst I'm clarifying things, the system has not changed since 2019. The Belarussian vote in 2019 used the exact same procedure as the one used in 2022. A mistake was made on the night, and after the show, corrected, because the result presented on the night was inverted - 12 points went to Israel on the night, but using the algorithm, Israel actually came last with the calculated Belarussian jury vote. The 12 points instead should have gone to Malta, who had the best combined jury result of the other countries in Belarus' pot that year.

 

[SarahM]

I found this YouTube video regarding cheating in the Second Semi Final by ESC Tom to be very inciteful and well put together. If you have a spare half an hour I found it worth the listen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d5NZ3_GiV8

 

[HayashiM]

I found this YouTube video regarding cheating in the Second Semi Final by ESC Tom to be very inciteful and well put together. If you have a spare half an hour I found it worth the listen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d5NZ3_GiV8

Yeah, this video says it all. Just go and watch it you people

I will repost/reemphasize two of Tom's points here:

1. The cheating itself was done very poorly, as if by kids from primary school, you couldn't make a more textbook obvious example. The fact that some broadcasters still argue that "but Belgium and Sweden and Australia also voted for one another" or "ah-hah, so this algorithm is how EBU is manipulating everything!" and don't see the flaw in this "reasoning" shows how stupid they actually are, and how little they understand how basic statistics work -> which is probably why they tried to cheat in this super obvious way in the first place.
(In my opinion, this is yet another argument hinting at at least some broadcasters having been actively involved, and not just individual juries).

2. There has been a very clear cheating taking place, yet all countries involved still deny that, not a single one has bothered with at least an apology - instead, they try to divert attention by taking it on the EBU.

 

[ag89]

I can somehow understand why Georgia, Azerbaijan or San Marino played this game. But Romania and Poland? They had songs for the final liked by fans, particularly Poland. It is really embarrassing.

 

[SarahM]

I can somehow understand why Georgia, Azerbaijan or San Marino played this game. But Romania and Poland? They had songs for the final liked by fans, particularly Poland. It is really embarrassing.

Embarrassing for the broadcaster but so disrespectful to the artists representing them

 

[12Pointsgoto.....]

Embarrassing for the broadcaster but so disrespectful to the artists representing them

I think they might have made this agreement before songs were chosen. 5 out of 6 of these countries were struggling a lot and Azerbaijan always has to get involved with cheating. I doubt the more conservative Polish Jury would agree to voting for a guy practically wearing only underwear and seducing his male guitarist, while also riding a red bull.

 

[NemesisNick]

At long last, long overdue, I've finally posted my review of the Eurovision Song Contest 2022 Grand Final on my blog. Sorry for the prolonged delay. Hopefully the report will still be of interest to Eurovision fans, one year on.

Eurovision Song Contest 2022 Grand Final

 

[12Pointsgoto.....]

At long last, long overdue, I've finally posted my review of the Eurovision Song Contest 2022 Grand Final on my blog. Sorry for the prolonged delay. Hopefully the report will still be of interest to Eurovision fans, one year on.

Eurovision Song Contest 2022 Grand Final

I was confused to see that the most recent post besides yours was mine, and then I realized that this was the 2022 thread.

 

[12Pointsgoto.....]

I found this YouTube video regarding cheating in the Second Semi Final by ESC Tom to be very inciteful and well put together. If you have a spare half an hour I found it worth the listen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d5NZ3_GiV8

ESC Tom has a lot of great takes and he analyzes things very well. Not only that but he lived in Shanghai last year (where I live)! He still wears a 中国 T-Shirt