Live EUROVISION SONG CONTEST 2022 FINAL DISCUSSION

[Sean]

Please use this thread to discuss rehearsals in general and also to follow along with all of the live shows in Turin.

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[ESC_12 points]

When I learned that Pausini and Mika were going to conduct the ESC, I sadly already knew that they would take the opportunity to advertise themselves. I don't know how it works in your countries but here in Italy when there is a jar of jam there are the usual individuals who want to lick their hands. Each of our events never runs smoothly but must deal with the whims of our stars.

On Damiano of the Måneskin, even if he had wanted to, he could not have done it. I repeat... he was injured in his ankle. He suffered an injury when he was in London shooting a video clip.

I didn't know that he was injured. I voted for Måneskin last year, and I was waiting for them to open the Eurovision with their winning song. The show was good, but for such a rich musical country like Italy, I expected much more. Maybe it is just me, because I am a huge fan of Italian opera, strong Italian voices and classical music, and my mother was waiting for Toto Cutugno , but both our expectations were not met. Nevertheless, I enjoyed the show

 

[MopManMoss]

Its really funny how all these broadcasters that were disqualified following semi 2 questionable jury scores are more than happy to release their grand final jury scorings but not their semi 2 ones

 

[Loindici]

Posted this in the Serbia thread, but I think it's worth posting it here, too.
The Serbs posted a concept video of the initial staging (including a working sun). I think it's really interesting to see. Looks quite different from the performance we've seen and underlines that some acts might have been screwed badly.

In this case of Serbia, somehow the backside setup worked better for them: it transformed her act into a satanic take on a Joel Osteen service. I think if they didn't have the flashing sunlights or the transition from white to red lights in the bridge, it might've become a bit too static and might've had affected the televote.

Talking whether the performances would be better if the sun work feels divisive as we don't know what each country originally planned, except for Serbia in this case. We also don't know if a full display of LED would look good on camera since the LED turned out to be low-def.

 

[Loindici]

I wish the geopolitics to be as simple as your post.

Simple answer is no. Azerbaijan is allied with the UK (economically) and Turkey (military), Georgia and Ukraine (regionally). Since Russia turned Armenia into de-facto to the Russian federation, because Russia has two military bases in Armenia (Gyumri and Erebuni), owns strategic economic infrastructure like customs, railways, gas etc. Armenia is the member of the Russian-led military block CSTO and EEU (economic block). The Russian troops control the Armenian border, Azerbaijan needs to balance the Russian power in the South Caucasus keeping its relation with Russia neutral and pragmatic. At the same time, the Azerbaijani media fully supports Ukraine, the Azerbaijani government sends humanitarian aid to Ukraine, and as well as free oil. There are much more help to Ukraine than this, but the Azerbaijani government does not want to make it public. President Aliyev openly called Russia as aggressors and occupants and advised Ukraine to never give up and go till the end to liberate their territories from occupation e.g occupants.

Russia uses all kind of levereage to stop the Azerbaijani assistance to Ukraine, even nuclear attack threat, but it seems Baku does not carrry: https://www.directupload.net/file/d/6551/w4wbk7qq_png.htm (photo)

You can see the Russian troops securing Armenian border with the words "forever with Russia and Putin's photo". They think it would scarry Azerbaijan: https://www.directupload.net/file/d/6551/c9yim5pz_png.htm (photo)

By the way, Armenia is the only country among post-Soviet states that is not capable to guard its own state border. Even Tajikistan, where is the largest Russian military base outside of Russia places, is capable to secure its own state border. This makes Armenia either failed state or de-facto Russian Federation. All the frozen conflicts and their seperatists are backed up by Russia, which creates great security concerns to Azerbaijan, Georgia, Moldova and now Ukraine. The Azerbaijani victory in 2020 created new geopolitical challanges and reality for Russia in the South Caucasus and equally Ukrainian victory will create a new geopolitical challences for Russia in Eastern and Central Europe. Thus, victory with Ukraine!

I wish the geopolitics to be as simple as your post.

Simple answer is no. Azerbaijan is allied with the UK (economically) and Turkey (military), Georgia and Ukraine (regionally). Since Russia turned Armenia into de-facto to the Russian federation, because Russia has two military bases in Armenia (Gyumri and Erebuni), owns strategic economic infrastructure like customs, railways, gas etc. Armenia is the member of the Russian-led military block CSTO and EEU (economic block). The Russian troops control the Armenian border, Azerbaijan needs to balance the Russian power in the South Caucasus keeping its relation with Russia neutral and pragmatic. At the same time, the Azerbaijani media fully supports Ukraine, the Azerbaijani government sends humanitarian aid to Ukraine, and as well as free oil. There are much more help to Ukraine than this, but the Azerbaijani government does not want to make it public. President Aliyev openly called Russia as aggressors and occupants and advised Ukraine to never give up and go till the end to liberate their territories from occupation e.g occupants.

Russia uses all kind of levereage to stop the Azerbaijani assistance to Ukraine, even nuclear attack threat, but it seems Baku does not carrry: https://www.directupload.net/file/d/6551/w4wbk7qq_png.htm (photo)

You can see the Russian troops securing Armenian border with the words "forever with Russia and Putin's photo". They think it would scarry Azerbaijan: https://www.directupload.net/file/d/6551/c9yim5pz_png.htm (photo)

By the way, Armenia is the only country among post-Soviet states that is not capable to guard its own state border. Even Tajikistan, where is the largest Russian military base outside of Russia places, is capable to secure its own state border. This makes Armenia either failed state or de-facto Russian Federation. All the frozen conflicts and their seperatists are backed up by Russia, which creates great security concerns to Azerbaijan, Georgia, Moldova and now Ukraine. The Azerbaijani victory in 2020 created new geopolitical challanges and reality for Russia in the South Caucasus and equally Ukrainian victory will create a new geopolitical challences for Russia in Eastern and Central Europe. Thus, victory with Ukraine!

Thank you, I'm not aware of the relations being this complicated. However, I'm contextually referring to their relations on the song contest, since the Azerbaijani jury will traditionally give their 12 on Russia in the grand final.

And your explanation helps me to sense on why their 12 was originally for Ukraine, since Russia's not there (and most likely, not going to be there for a long time).

 

[ESC_12 points]

Thank you, I'm not aware of the relations being this complicated. However, I'm contextually referring to their relations on the song contest, since the Azerbaijani jury will traditionally give their 12 on Russia in the grand final.

And your explanation helps me to sense on why their 12 was originally for Ukraine, since Russia's not there (and most likely, not going to be there for a long time).

If Turkey would be there, there is no doubt that Azerbaijan would give 12 points to Turkey, because the Turkish music, singers, TV serials are very popular in Azerbaijan and they have the same taste and language. In terms of Russia, I think, there is always mutual points, Russia also gives high points to Azerbaijan too. In addition, Azerbaijan has large ethnic Russian community and they always vote for Russia. Balkan countries also vote for each other despite of the conflicts in the past.

Azerbaijan carefully watches Russia now, because Armenia held military rally in Yerevan and Karabakh to support the Russian invasion in Ukraine with the hope that Russia can recognise Karabakh as Moscow did with the Ukrainian "L/DNR". In this case you will never hear again that Azerbaijan gave 12 points to Russia

Here is the photo from the Armenian rally to support Russia: https://www.directupload.net/file/d/6552/9zsw2x63_png.htm
Margarita Simonyan thanks Armenians for their support to Russia in Karabakh: https://www.directupload.net/file/d/6552/zzk7voiq_png.htm

Anyway, the Azerbaijani geopolitics is too complex to measure it only with the Eurovision points

 

[razi]

If all these delegations are so angry about their final votes being disqualified, I would love to see them posting their semi-final rankings because that was the reason why they got what they've got.

I'm sorry but Romania did that! Maybe you've missed it!

If all these delegations are so angry about their final votes being disqualified, I would love to see them posting their semi-final rankings because that was the reason why they got what they've got.

 

[MopManMoss]

I'm sorry but Romania did that! Maybe you've missed it!

Your broadcaster has only published their juries grand final voting not the semi 2 voting which is what was has been alleged to be corrupt and what subsequently got them disqualified

 

[midnightsun]

Even if, why did the EBU not inform these countries after the Semi? And why did the EBU exchange those countries' points in the final? Makes no sense because their points in the final are valid. They must disqualify those countries' votes BEFORE the voting! But they cannot take their valid GF points and just randomly give them to other countries as a "punishment" for the semi disaster, allegedly based on an algorithm of voting patterns, but we know the "algorithm“ of the EBU since Belarus 2019. Tbh, this smells fishy.

 

[MopManMoss]

Even if, why did the EBU not inform these countries after the Semi? And why did the EBU exchange those countries' points in the final? Makes no sense because their points in the final are valid

Why would grand final points be valid if theyve been corrupt in the semis why would the EBU trust them?

 

[ESC_12 points]

Its really funny how all these broadcasters that were disqualified following semi 2 questionable jury scores are more than happy to release their grand final jury scorings but not their semi 2 ones

The EBU disqualifies not their semi 1 and 2 results but Final. Semi 1 and 2 results available here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision_Song_Contest_2022#Scoreboard

Why to publish them if everybody can have a look at them themselves? Or did I miss something and they also disqualified their semi 1 and 2 results too?

 

[harey]

I feel weirdly attracted to Mister Osterdahl. Maybe it's the power thing.

He could cancel my filthy jury votes any time.

Same here....

The EBU disqualifies not their semi 1 and 2 results but Final. Semi 1 and 2 results available here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision_Song_Contest_2022#Scoreboard

Why to publish them if everybody can have a look at them themselves? Or did I miss something and they also disqualified their semi 1 and 2 results too?

I think they did change the semi results? But the broadcasters didn't notice because SF results are not shown before the end of the GF. (But I thought only SF2 was involved?)

 

[ESC_12 points]

I think they did change the semi results? But the broadcasters didn't notice because SF results are not shown before the end of the GF. (But I thought only SF2 was involved?)

No, as far as I understood from the media, it only about disqualification of results on the Final based on their irregular action on SF1 and SF 2. The EBU kept their SF results as they were, but disqualified the Final result.

 

[Himan]

So whoever belly dances next year is the winner

Looks at his belly, thinking about him representing some country belly dancing. I'm probably not convincing juries I'm afraid, televotes though love my dad bod belly dancing.

 

[midnightsun]

Why would grand final points be valid if theyve been corrupt in the semis why would the EBU trust them?

That‘s the dilemma, we neither know if the countries were corrupt or the EBU or both or none…

I just find it suspicious why the EBU doesn’t declare how they detected it and what exactly and how they came up with that particular "algorithm" this year. To me, the alleged "algorithm“ seems more or less random to me, like in 2019.
No way it is based on "voting patterns“.

And why did the EBU change the jury results of the FINAL and not the ones of Semi 2?

All I know is that I trust the EBU as little as them suspicious countries. Anyway… we will never know. Let’s move on.

 

[FilipFromSweden]

I just find it suspicious why the EBU doesn’t declare how they detected it and what exactly and how they came up with that particular "algorithm" this year.

It's not just the EBU. PWC is a company that helps verify the results and they were one part who warned the EBU. The ESC bubble is huge and drama tends to come naturally so I wouldn't be surprised if the EBU was also contacted by a secret source who had first hand knowledge about the cheating.

 

[Bobjan FR]

And why did the EBU change the jury results of the FINAL and not the ones of Semi 2?

They did it in semi 2 as well ! The details of the 6 suspicious juries votes are absent from the official website for final and semi-final, and the votes of Romania/Poland and Georgia/azerbaijan are identical, as their votes in final.



And if you want to know how were made the "algorithms", which are not random but based on the juries from countries that are in the same hats , look to this post :

Read this
https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/uq9n1e
and then this

https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/uqk9xy

 

[jatojo]

I don't expect to find out exactly what was wrong with the "disqualified" juries. But I do think it's wrong to talk about technical issues preventing the announcers to get through to the show when in fact the problem had nothing to do with the connection. I can't see this in any other way than we as viewers were lied to. And that's deeply concerning as the EBU are supposed to be an authority we can trust.

 

[ESC_12 points]

They did it in semi 2 as well ! The details of the 6 suspicious juries votes are absent from the official website for final and semi-final, and the votes of Romania/Poland and Georgia/azerbaijan are identical, as their votes in final.

No they did not. The EBU changed only their Final votes based on their alleged irregularities in SF 1 and 2.

No, they did not remove any of those 6 countries juri votes from the official website. You can look at them from here:
https://eurovision.tv/event/turin-2022/second-semi-final/results/romania for example Romania. They only do not have scoreboard as other countries, but the detailed results of all 6 countries are there.

No, they did not vote identically.
Romania/Poland- Rom jury gave 0 points to Pol and Pol gave 0 points to Rom. Thus, they did not vote for each other and presumably, they would not make prior agreement to give each other 0 points. There is nothing to collaborate about 0 points.

Results of the Second Semi-Final of Turin 2022 - Eurovision Song Contest

Official website of the Eurovision Song Contest. The latest news, photos, videos, participant info, voting results, the Contest's rich history and much more.

eurovision.tv

Azerbaijan/Georgia- Aze jury gave 0 points to Geo and Geo 4 points to Aze in SF2

Results of the Second Semi-Final of Turin 2022 - Eurovision Song Contest

Official website of the Eurovision Song Contest. The latest news, photos, videos, participant info, voting results, the Contest's rich history and much more.

eurovision.tv

 

[ESC_12 points]

I don't expect to find out exactly what was wrong with the "disqualified" juries. But I do think it's wrong to talk about technical issues preventing the announcers to get through to the show when in fact the problem had nothing to do with the connection. I can't see this in any other way than we as viewers were lied to. And that's deeply concerning as the EBU are supposed to be an authority we can trust.

I wrote my version why the EBU lied to us bluntly, those six countries should suite the EBU for damaging their reputation, ignoring their choice and giving on their behalf their votes to others. As well as, lying to all of us about the "badd connection". Otherwise, these six countries should leave the ESC, if they are wrong.

 

[Bobjan FR]

No they did not. The EBU changed only their Final votes based on their alleged irregularities in SF 1 and 2.

No, they did not remove any of those 6 countries juri votes from the official website. You can look at them from here:
https://eurovision.tv/event/turin-2022/second-semi-final/results/romania for example Romania. They only do not have scoreboard as other countries, but the detailed results of all 6 countries are there.

Yes, they did !
What i was saying by "detailed of juries votes" is what you call "scoreboards" . And yes, they are absent ... because the juries vote have been replaced.


The czech jury vote had no problem. The detail of their vote is under the ranking of the top 10.

For romania and poland, theses details votes are missing, there is only the ranking of the top 10
And as i was saying, Romania and Poland got the same vote in semi-final :

.... Why are they identical ? Because their real vote have been removed. Poland and Romania are in the same "Pot"(and not "hat" like i wrote ealier, ups) , so the "algorithm" used to determine their fake jury vote include the same countries.

And it's the same with azerbaijan, georgia and san marino who got the same jury vote in semi-final as well, the reason is their vote have been replaced. (And montenegro is isolated)

And if you ask you "Why san marino fake jury vote is the same as Georgia and azerbaijan ? They are not in the same Pot." You are right, and the reason is explained in the post i quoted before : Because there is twice less countries voting in the semi-final, they put the pots together by two, so the Pot 3, including azerbaijan and georgia, and the pot 4, including San marino, are together. And their jury votes as based on the votes of the juries of the countries of theses pots that are in semi final two, so : Israel, Cyprus, and Malta.

As well, the Romanian and Polish fake jury vote was based on the countries of Pots 5 and 6, so : Estonia, belgium, czech republic, ireland
And The montenegrin fake jury vote was based on the countries of pots 1 and 2, so : North Macedonia, Serbia, Australia, Sweden, Finland