Ukraine UKRAINE 2023 - Tvorchi - Heart of Steel

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[Realest]

Ukraine would have won the TV at least without the War, but obviously not with a new World Record. I dont see how Moldova would have won otherwise, although it would be amusing to see Moldova winning the TV. Not sure how the War influenced the Juryvoting though.

 

[A-lister]

It´s not "weak" - "Slo mo" as a song was weak - Chanel just finished #3 because of her (sexy and well-executed) performance. No one cared about the song - Spanish fans even sent her death threats - the favourites got snubbed by the juries.. "Stefania", however, has been one of two big favourites of Vidbir straight from the beginning.

I don´t understand why it is so difficult (for you) to understand that there are several factors which influence both (jury and televoting) juries. You can´t exclude political, socio-cultural, demographical factors at Eurovision or even award shows. Sam Smith and Kim Petras just won the Grammy for "Best Duo Performance" (Elton John/Britney didn´t even get nominated, Abba lost)... a song whose lyrics are about "daddy getting hot at the body shop" and counting brands you like (e.g. Prada) are not "subjectively the best song" of the year.... @A-lister and I (as well as others) have never said that "sympathy votes" didn´t happen - we even assured you and other members and think the same... it´s just like "Stefania" had been Top 5 (even Top 3) material in televoting straight from the beginning... and it won in the end due to different factors.. who cares? - sometimes it´s about diaspora, about politics, about (sexy) performances or just because the jury pushed you (hello Mans). The winning entry is usually "not the best composition" and the bottom 5 entries don´t have to be necessarily the "worst songs".

On top of that, music is subjective - there might be people who really thought that "Slo Mo" was the best song and voted for it - despite being a dance routing with filthy lyrics (doom, doom, boom, boom, mami is here, booty hypnotic).

At least, "Stefania" had some depth and strong lyrics....

I can´t find many fans complaining about Chanel being "totally overrated" and her having doubleed, tripled, quadrupled and quintupled the Spanish televoting score despite having the worst lyrics and one of the trashiest compositions of the night.

I kinda wanted to give you a like because I agree with some of this but don't come for my slutbops!

Although I do kinda agree, the Spanish entry wasn't that strong musically (but there's no denying that it was one of the most efficient performances and due to the lack of entries like that in general and in a sea of mostly ballads, the success wasn't maybe that surprising in the end of the day).

I hate "Unholy" though

 

[Mainshow]

I kinda wanted to give you a like because I agree with some of this but don't come for my slutbops!

Although I do kinda agree, the Spanish entry wasn't that strong musically (but there's no denying that it was one of the most efficient performances and due to the lack of entries like that in general and in a sea of mostly ballads, the success wasn't maybe that surprising in the end of the day).

I hate "Unholy" though

Oh, I agree with you - I enjoyed very much and it somehow deserved to be on the left side of the board (even though #3 was way too high for my liking). I just took "Slo Mo" as an example. Strangely, "fans" who claim that Ukraine didn´t deserve to win "because the song was simply not strong enough" would have loved to see win (?) the song with absolutely trashy lyrics... or (barely making the televoting Top 5) or dunno, (like @Realest already proved wrong).... That discussion is so tiring... "Objectively, Ukraine didn´t deserve to win because the song was too weak... but "Slo Mo" or that train from Moldova to Romania did??" - That debate is so freaking ridiculous.

 

[Looren]

That discussion is so tiring... "Objectively, Ukraine didn´t deserve to win because the song was too weak... but "Slo Mo" or that train from Moldova to Romania did??" - That debate is so freaking ridiculous.

Yeah okay but let's admit it, winning would've been the most iconic thing ever in Eurovision

HEY HO LET'S GO ! FOLKLORE AND ROCK'N ROLL !

 

[Mainshow]

Yeah okay but let's admit it, winning would've been the most iconic thing ever in Eurovision

HEY HO LET'S GO ! FOLKLORE AND ROCK'N ROLL !

It would have been an iconic moment, for sure.

But seriously, how on Earth can people assume that "Ukraine" would have never won the televoting without the war... we had one of the most random #2 in televoting ever.... and people were favouring songs performed in native languages ( and were the top 4.. it´s not like all people would have started to vote for, dunno, or all of a sudden)

 

[Iker]

Ukraine would have won the TV at least without the War, but obviously not with a new World Record. I dont see how Moldova would have won otherwise, although it would be amusing to see Moldova winning the TV. Not sure how the War influenced the Juryvoting though.

What do you base that view on? You make quite a determined statement here.

Personally I think Ukraine would not have won without the war happening, it helped a lot to get attention and also by then a lot of Ukrainians fled their country and were able to vote for Ukraine. They would place high as in getting at least into top 10 (also with their original winner that got scrapped).

 

[Bobjan FR]

Ukraine would have won the TV at least without the War

Nope

 

[AlekS]

Damn, 2022 is still making haters butthurt

From saying that my nationality has the low intelligence level, to labeling Vidbir host volunteering as being political and blaming our refugees in brainless voting (wondering if those who lost everything, their money & it's impossible to get a job within 2 months, have nothing better to do than to vote on Eurovision, paying like 5-7 times more than here).
Damn, eurotrash, you hit the new lows

 

[Looren]

I think Ukraine would've won the televote and anyway it doesn't matter, a winner is a winner, nothing will change, Ukraine won Eurovision 2022 and that's it

 

[Realest]

What do you base that view on? You make quite a determined statement here.

Personally I think Ukraine would not have won without the war happening, it helped a lot to get attention and also by then a lot of Ukrainians fled their country and were able to vote for Ukraine. They would place high as in getting at least into top 10 (also with their original winner that got scrapped).

Nope

Do you think Moldova would have won?

 

[Bobjan FR]

Do you think Moldova would have won?

The televote, sadly yes

 

[Iker]

Do you think Moldova would have won?

No ... or at least I hope not! But this would be even more tragic as I couldn't stand Trenuletul.

 

[Deleted member 12761]

I gave this points. I think the performance is visually very good. The song itself is unique and modern but it lacks something. They're number 1 in the odds but I don't think Ukraine is going to win this year. I do think this song has the potential to go Top 10, maybe even Top 5 because of the performance.

 

[Realest]

No ... or at least I hope not! But this would be even more tragic as I couldn't stand Trenuletul.

Then what do you think who would have won the TV without the War if not Moldova and Ukraine?

 

[FilipFromSweden]

I also think Ukraine would’ve won without the war, but maybe with 5 points ahead of the UK or Spain. If you look at the other entries, there isn’t really a clear winner, very much like 2011. Kalush Orchestra had the most distinct, unique and upbeat song and it’s my most streamed Eurovision song for 2022.

 

[midnightsun]

I like this song more than Stefania, to be honest.

 

[empo21]

I don't think Kalush would have won if there was no war. Top 10 very likely, but the pain of the war was too fresh not to affect Eurovision. We're also forgetting the fan criticism Kalush's lead was getting because of denying the televote result, which got swept over by bigger more important issues. (To add just to avoid any confusion, I do believe Ukraine deserved their win last year, but it's okay to be realistic about the situation)

Alina Pash on the other hand would've definitely challenged the top no matter the political situation.

Besides, all the Ukraine only won because of the war and they'll keep winning troll comments are just that...typical eurovision trolls. We have that for almost every winner ("Netta pandered to #meToo", "Salvador health sob story", "Jamala won because people hate russia", "Conchita only won because of lgtbq+"and etc) and yet they were all deserving winners that got awarded big by both jury/televote.

There's always going to be nitpicking when one wants to nitpick so better to just ignore.

 

[MopManMoss]

How are we still having this discussion? I have no issue with Stefania having won it was a good song and would have done well if Ukraine had not been invaded by Russia however there is absolutely no way Stefania would won if it were not for the war given the genre of song it was under "normal" circumstances it wouldnt have come fourth with the juries in a peaceful theoretical scenario nor would they have obtained 93% of the maximum possible televote score and anyone claiming otherwise is deluded

Also heart of steel is way better than most seem to be claiming it is

 

[A-lister]

How are we still having this discussion? I have no issue with Stefania having won it was a good song and would have done well if Ukraine had not been invaded by Russia however there is absolutely no way Stefania would won if it were not for the war given the genre of song it was under "normal" circumstances it wouldnt have come fourth with the juries in a peaceful theoretical scenario nor would they have obtained 93% of the maximum possible televote score and anyone claiming otherwise is deluded

Also heart of steel is way better than most seem to be claiming it is

The discussion is popping up over and over again because of bitter trolls who just need to hijack the Ukrainian thread every year...

I also don't think Ukraine would have been top 5 with the juries or win the televote with such big margin, with that being said I do think they still would have won the televote as it was a generally weak year and Kalush presented the overall strongest package, most original and striking entry there was in that lineup. Juries are trickier and would have mistreated it like they did with Shum and all other original and local songs, but I still believe a top. 5 in total was totally doable.

Anyways, I hope we can finally focus on 2023, which will for sure not do as well and all these comments that Ukraine automatically will succeed only due to the war and that they only succeeded in 2022 due to the war (dismissing the fact that it was a popular entry even prior and that Ukraine in general is one of the countries with the strongest track records in the contest) are tiring, bitter and trolling.

 

[Bmbriga]

With every song selected this year, this Tvorchi thing sounds better and better.