Ukraine UKRAINE 2023 - Tvorchi - Heart of Steel

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[AlekS]

Starlight is back, long-ass pause for voting is unfortunately back too.

16:00-18:00 CET - Songs
18:00 - 19:00 CET - Kalush Orchestra ESC documentary
19:00 - 20:00 CET - Results show

This year I wouldn't mind tho, many people will need time to figure out how to vote in/install Diia state app. Even more will need time to authorize again.
Due to blackouts I'm gonna watch the results show in the app in multi-screen mode in order to comment here.

 

[Fierro]

Starlight is back, long-ass pause for voting is unfortunately back too.

16:00-18:00 CET - Songs
18:00 - 19:00 CET - Kalush Orchestra ESC documentary
19:00 - 20:00 CET - Results show

This year I wouldn't mind tho, many people will need time to figure out how to vote in/install Diia state app. Even more will need time to authorize again.
Due to blackouts I'm gonna watch the results show in the app in multi-screen mode in order to comment here.

It's good that i have warming hub with wi-fi in 15 minutes from my house and the show is not too late, maybe i'll actually have a chance to watch it live if my house in these hours does not have lights on

 

[A-lister]

I prefer Angelina Tvorchi and Demchuk. I'm not big at all on Jerry or Krutb. I do think the whole traditional direction Ukraine are going in is becoming repetitive and stale, and it's almost like they are just doing it to appease the fandom who like "ethnic" songs (depending on the country of course).

Ukraine are very good when it comes to more radio friendly Swedish produced songs, and the think they do need to send one like that every so often. Demchuk and Tvorchi wouldn't look out of place in current charts with their songs.

Yeah, just what the world needs more of, generic radio Pop in English. We should be so thankful that at least some few countries dare to send entries that actually represent them.

 

[hijirio]

Yeah, just what the world needs more of, generic radio Pop in English. We should be so thankful that at least some few countries dare to send entries that actually represent them.

Yeah but when the ethnic is always the same kind of ethnic, it gets boring. But again it's only us ESC fans who follow national finals and are familiarized with it, most casual viewers won't even notice and still find it exotic.

This is why I think Krut could be nice, it's at least a different kind of ethnic (even though I personally prefer Jerry Heil)

 

[AlekS]

Yeah but when the ethnic is always the same kind of ethnic, it gets boring.

How on earth Shum and Stefania have the same kind of ethno? The only similar ethno part they have is sopilka (not used by Jerry Heil).

 

[AlekS]

And here's the lyric video of Krutь:

Too in-your face about the war.
Her PR agency openly admitted few months ago that "there's nothing bad in earning money by milking the war theme".
I have nothing against songs about war, but I still don't get how crying to lullabye is useful on Eurovision or on the front line.

Edit: and she's just changed the YT thumbnail from a soldier to her.

 

[hijirio]

How on earth Shum and Stefania have the same kind of ethno? The only similar ethno part they have is sopilka (not used by Jerry Heil).

You answered it yourself.

At the end of the day, the most distinct ethno is Krut, which we can all agree upon, no?

 

[FilipFromSweden]

Too in-your face about the war.
Her PR agency openly admitted few months ago that "there's nothing bad in earning money by milking the war theme".

Well .. is it bad? The message is ''Ukraine under attack, music about it makes money, Ukrainian culture profits''. I don't see anything wrong about Ukrainian artists making money. Far too many artists in this world don't get what they deserve

 

[StephenMuckle]

I'm not a fan of Jerry Heil or Krut to be honest like I said. And there's nothing wrong with radio friendly songs. Show me Your Love and Tick Tock were great songs. Under the Ladder was also a great song but ruined by the bad vampire gimmick. It's just that the reaction from the fandom to these songs has been EXTREMELY predictable (it's "authentic" or it's "meaningful"). I just think every once in a while they should send something more mainstream like Angelina Tvorchi or Demchuk rather than some left of field song that sounds like it's been written by some poet. It just feels like they are trying to capitalise on Go-A and Jamala.

This year's Vidbir is definitely one where I would like to see an Aksel type surprise winner, just hope that if it is, they don't get dumped on by the fandom like it did when Cicciolina didn't win.

 

[StephenMuckle]

And here's the lyric video of Krutь:

Too in-your face about the war.
Her PR agency openly admitted few months ago that "there's nothing bad in earning money by milking the war theme".
I have nothing against songs about war, but I still don't get how crying to lullabye is useful on Eurovision or on the front line.

Edit: and she's just changed the YT thumbnail from a soldier to her.

Did her PR Agency actually say that? If they did then that is utterly tasteless and disrespectful to the people who have died in this war. I still remember back in 2005 and 2006 when WWE shamelessly exploited the tragic death of Eddie Guerrero by using his name in storylines to boost ratings on Smackdown and plugged his merchandise.

 

[njdevils94]

Beautiful video from Krutь. She's such a charming performer.

 

[AlekS]

You answered it yourself.

Not really. Having one common music instrument doesn't make them "the same kind of ethnic".

At the end of the day, the most distinct ethno is Krut, which we can all agree upon, no?

No. None of them are distinct ethno to me. Shum is more ethno, because the whole song is based on the pagan song, the structure and vocals is a mix between vesnyanka and kolomyika (2 traditional types of songs). Kalush... songs about mother are typical for our culture, certain parts of the song are based on hutsulian folk, clothes + sopilka plays a prominent part.

I've just realized that Kalush sings "Mother, sing to me a lullabye" in the chorus and Krutь's song is called "Lullabye". She also sings "lyuli lyuli" (borrowed from traditional lullabyes).

 

[AlekS]

Well .. is it bad? The message is ''Ukraine under attack, music about it makes money, Ukrainian culture profits''. I don't see anything wrong about Ukrainian artists making money. Far too many artists in this world don't get what they deserve

She became famous as a political symbol of revolution. Corporate political parties? Political events abroad? Apparently, she can afford the same pr-agency that has been working for Kalush on ESC and pay for promo posts in political groups in Telegram (one post costs 20 000 UAH, a monthly salary). Out of all participants she's definitely not poor.
Saying it's ok to milk the military theme is rather a question of morals. I have nothing against performers being endorsed by militaries, and having military-themed songs is a must. But when I see a dirty-ass pr agency exploiting the military theme, when I donate my last coins to the army... It's like benefiting on charity.

 

[Mainshow]

And here's the lyric video of Krutь:

Too in-your face about the war.
Her PR agency openly admitted few months ago that "there's nothing bad in earning money by milking the war theme".
I have nothing against songs about war, but I still don't get how crying to lullabye is useful on Eurovision or on the front line.

Edit: and she's just changed the YT thumbnail from a soldier to her.

Actually, I think it´s a very powerful image: Protecting the child from traumatic experiences - putting them to sleep, shielding them away from the madness of war and all its fatal consequences and casualties.
It´s highly symbolic and quite comforting: "There would be night but it´ll go away" - After the lullaby / after the night, a new day will come.. at dawn the war might have been won and the child doesn´t have to be put to sleep the same way.
KRUTb is also singing about unity - how all family members fight to protect the innocent child from evil.
That imagery even comes alive in the music video and it´s accompanied by the song´s structure. Just compare the close-up of the soliders at 1:44 - 1:59 to the ones at 2:05 (they are literally lit up by sunlight and it happens during the song´s climax when the notes get louder and the arrangement a bit warmer). - The child doesn´t have to be afraid anymore - it can rest/sleep without fear...

Matched with the hauntingly beautiful, peace and calm sounds of the bandura, the whole entry has a huge "patriotic" print without beeing "too complex, too bop-py, too much "into-your-face-about-war-to-foreigners".

Sometimes the calmest sounds can be the most effective ones.

Ukraine hasn´t submitted such a calm and pure song in Eurovision before - I love Jerry Heil´s song (it would probably be part of my final Top 10 in May) but "Колискова" would bring more "diversity" to Ukraine´s ESC historry, imo.

 

[AlekS]

Actually, I think it´s a very powerful image: Protecting the child from traumatic experiences - putting them to sleep, shielding them away from the madness of war and all its fatal consequences and casualties.
It´s highly symbolic and quite comforting: "There would be night but it´ll go away" - After the lullaby / after the night, a new day will come.. at dawn the war might have been won and the child doesn´t have to be put to sleep the same way.
KRUTb is also singing about unity - how all family members fight to protect the innocent child from evil.
That imagery even comes alive in the music video and it´s accompanied by the song´s structure. Just compare the close-up of the soliders at 1:44 - 1:59 to the ones at 2:05 (they are literally lit up by sunlight and it happens during the song´s climax when the notes get louder and the arrangement a bit warmer). - The child doesn´t have to be afraid anymore - it can rest/sleep without fear...

Matched with the hauntingly beautiful, peace and calm sounds of the bandura, the whole entry has a huge "patriotic" print without beeing "too complex, too bop-py, too much "into-your-face-about-war-to-foreigners".

Sometimes the calmest sounds can be the most effective ones.

Ukraine hasn´t submitted such a calm and pure song in Eurovision before - I love Jerry Heil´s song (it would probably be part of my final Top 10 in May) but "Колискова" would bring more "diversity" to Ukraine´s ESC historry, imo.

I feel disconnected and detached from this song in every possible way. A boring ballad about war that will flop like our JESC entry is not something that I want for diversity

Just like this flop being associated with our soldiers.
Jerry Heil is more therapeutic to me than Krutь.
I like more boppy, more complex, and less calm sounds.
"too much into-your-face-about-war-to-foreigners" is exactly what this lyric video is about.

 

[Mainshow]

"too much into-your-face-about-war-to-foreigners" is exactly what this lyric video is about.

They had to make sure that the music video transfers the message of the song because otherwise, a foreign listener has no chance to get an idea of the song´s core essence.
It´s a well-thought and well-executed package, imo.
Her being dressed in black lingering next to the window waiting for dawn to happen.. to see the new day arrive...the message that the war has ended - she´s singing for her child to comfort it (also to comfort and convince herself).

It´s a different way of dealing with the situation. Jerry Heil´s song is thematically similar but has a completely different nature: It´s more proactive and hands-on and even more aggressive. She chose a different metaphor - her being trapped, locked up (not living in peace but seeing "a door to escape")...it´s also very effective and impactful but just very different.
Both deal with war and hope - both songs share a unique Ukrainian sound but they are deriving from two different sources of power and strength: Jerry Heil is more about finding strength to fight and escape whereas KRUTb´s song is more about finding strength via protecting the innocent and finally seeing the horizon to heal). Both stories would shine on Eurovision... musically, I just agree with @hijirio that KRUTb´s entry would bring a more unique/more distinctive sound.

I can totally see that you prefer the more "out there" entry (and like I said, I love Jerry Heil and I would be happy to see her win) but there´s room for a pure, fragile ballad - I don´t think it´s boring, either - it´s simply not a clichéd Eurovision-equse power ballad (and that´s probably while I like it that much... it reminds me more of Estonia 2009 and its wonderful rank proves that there´s room for such entries at Eurovision as well).

We all have been discussing KRUTb and Jerry Heil.. now expect Moisei to win this week

 

[AlekS]

^ I don't recognize "a unique Ukrainian sound" in I wouldn't mind bandura on ESC stage, but by a different performer.
It's like flopping beforehand. I just have a feeling that mommy Jamala and mommy Yuliya will do everything so it could win.
I won't be surprised if Jerry flops vocally. And there we go, my ESC mood will be ruined in December already(((

Yulia said that she won't vote for fun songs, Moisei and FIINKA can pack their bags and go home.

 

[AlekS]

Jerry Heil is trending at #7 on Youtube.

 

[Mainshow]

^ I don't recognize "a unique Ukrainian sound" in
It's like flopping beforehand. I just have a feeling that mommy Jamala and mommy Yuliya will do everything so it could win.
I won't be surprised if Jerry flops vocally. And there we go, my ESC mood will be ruined in December already.

Isn´t she like...dunno.. playing the bandura, a typically Ukrainian instrument?

I mean, it sounds "unique Ukrainian" and "quite different and very distinctive" to me - a non-Ukrainian Eurovision fan.
There will probably be more "ethno", "frequently heard national motives" around but - in my book as a foreigner - it still ticks all boxes of a unique entry which will can be matched to a single country (unlike all Westernised American/Swedish pop songs in English).

Nah, Vidbir has a few great artists who will not put Ukraine to shame - Jerry Heil, KRUTb and FIINKA (after a revamp) could be even excpetionally brilliant and there are still pretty decent entries in the competition.

 

[AlekS]

Isn´t she like...dunno.. playing the bandura, a typically Ukrainian instrument?

I mean, it sounds "unique Ukrainian" and "quite different and very distinctive" to me - a non-Ukrainian Eurovision fan.
There will probably be more "ethno", "frequently heard national motives" around but - in my book as a foreigner - it still ticks all boxes of a unique entry which will can be matched to a single country (unlike all Westernised American/Swedish pop songs in English).

Nah, Vidbir has a few great artists who will not put Ukraine to shame - Jerry Heil, KRUTb and FIINKA (after a revamp) could be even excpetionally brilliant and there are still pretty decent entries in the competition.

I don't care if it's typical Ukrainian instrument. Playing our instrument doesn't automatically make the song Ukrainian to me. There's no authentic base in the song. It's just her tune played on bandura. There's not a single distinctive ethno song in this Vidbir.