Switzerland SWITZERLAND 2024 - Nemo - The Code

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[AliceEsc]

Congratulations! I ended up sending a few votes, cause Nemo was just so good. Such a talented singer, I hope we get to see them a lot next year.

I saw that I had given 10 in the poll. I always feared they will butcher the staging, but as it turns out it was one of the most impressive this year and Nemo's interaction with the platform prop was spectacular.

This year the jury again massively supports one act. It happens to be with a song that I really like, unlike last year, but it doesn't change the fact that if there's no reformation of the jury system, it will keep happening.

I know that this year was pretty weird, so not a lot of conclusions can be made. But it wouldn't surprise me if next year we have again a few acts massively voted by the public, to counteract a possible landslide by the juries.

 

[shameless]

This goes to the german speakers here, because I encountered a difficulty throughout the day and maybe you have a solution:

When friends who are not so much into the contest asked me about the winner and also wenn I read articles about them, it struck me that im german so many words (nouns, articles, adjectives, pronouns..) are gendermarked that it either was very complicated to talk talk about Nemo or it felt really cold and unpersonal.

Look at the best translation of the sentence: „they are a fantastic singer“ I came up with.

Es ist eine fantastische (is it ok to use a female form here?) singende Person. How unnatural, impersonal and sterile! Besides it doesn‘t mean the same as singer!

„Mensch“ instead of „Person“ would already be better but still - that‘s also so unpersonal, so distanced.

And „es“ as a pronoun is the worst as it is used for things and I dont wanna call a human „it“!

I mean in english, I have no problems talking about them, but in german it really makes me uncomfortable. Not because of the effort, but because of the outcome.

How do you deal with that?

Yes, it is much easier in english. All non-binary people that I know (or am aware of) in Berlin are non-german speakers so I can avoid that issue. When I speak or write about them in German I switch into english with they / them / their. Already reading the news bulletin about Nemos win shows that there is no real correct way in german for that yet.

 

[Chorizo]

This goes to the german speakers here, because I encountered a difficulty throughout the day and maybe you have a solution:

When friends who are not so much into the contest asked me about the winner and also wenn I read articles about them, it struck me that im german so many words (nouns, articles, adjectives, pronouns..) are gendermarked that it either was very complicated to talk talk about Nemo or it felt really cold and unpersonal.

Look at the best translation of the sentence: „they are a fantastic singer“ I came up with.

Es ist eine fantastische (is it ok to use a female form here?) singende Person. How unnatural, impersonal and sterile! Besides it doesn‘t mean the same as singer!

„Mensch“ instead of „Person“ would already be better but still - that‘s also so unpersonal, so distanced.

And „es“ as a pronoun is the worst as it is used for things and I dont wanna call a human „it“!

I mean in english, I have no problems talking about them, but in german it really makes me uncomfortable. Not because of the effort, but because of the outcome.

How do you deal with that?

Grammatical gender is not the same as biological sex or psychological gender identity. Gender activists apparently struggle with this fact, as highlighted by the gender language promoted by them in German. If it were the same, all persons would be women and all humans would be men, at least as long as they speak German. So, what's the problem? Just say "Sänger". That's the approach taken in English to be gender-neutral, btw. The tendency of German-language gender activists to make gender the center of the language instead of removing words and suffixes that mark a sex/gender, like in English, is just leading to awkward constructions that most people don't use in real life anyway and it is completely impractical. You cannot force a non-binary human gender concept on a language and align that human gender concept with a grammatical feature of that language that serves a different purpose. One certainly shouldn't feel compelled to do so, just because some activists don't understand how grammar and language work.

If you want to avoid a pronoun, you can use the person's name instead, but doing that all the time would be tedious and sound childlike. You could rephrase a lot of sentences to avoid the issue, but this approach is better suited for composing texts than for spontaneous speech.

 

[AlekS]

The view from the Green Room (turn on the sound):

https://imgur.com/5qj2ToG

 

[GermanBango]

This goes to the german speakers here, because I encountered a difficulty throughout the day and maybe you have a solution:

When friends who are not so much into the contest asked me about the winner and also wenn I read articles about them, it struck me that im german so many words (nouns, articles, adjectives, pronouns..) are gendermarked that it either was very complicated to talk talk about Nemo or it felt really cold and unpersonal.

Look at the best translation of the sentence: „they are a fantastic singer“ I came up with.

Es ist eine fantastische (is it ok to use a female form here?) singende Person. How unnatural, impersonal and sterile! Besides it doesn‘t mean the same as singer!

„Mensch“ instead of „Person“ would already be better but still - that‘s also so unpersonal, so distanced.

And „es“ as a pronoun is the worst as it is used for things and I dont wanna call a human „it“!

I mean in english, I have no problems talking about them, but in german it really makes me uncomfortable. Not because of the effort, but because of the outcome.

How do you deal with that?

I feel you. Just a few weeks back I wrote an article about the experiences of a non-binary teen and really struggled while doing so. I actually avoided pronouns completely in that case. There are some neo-options like "dey" but they are not very well established yet, I suppose.

 

[gigi_copp3]

This goes to the german speakers here, because I encountered a difficulty throughout the day and maybe you have a solution:

When friends who are not so much into the contest asked me about the winner and also wenn I read articles about them, it struck me that im german so many words (nouns, articles, adjectives, pronouns..) are gendermarked that it either was very complicated to talk talk about Nemo or it felt really cold and unpersonal.

Look at the best translation of the sentence: „they are a fantastic singer“ I came up with.

Es ist eine fantastische (is it ok to use a female form here?) singende Person. How unnatural, impersonal and sterile! Besides it doesn‘t mean the same as singer!

„Mensch“ instead of „Person“ would already be better but still - that‘s also so unpersonal, so distanced.

And „es“ as a pronoun is the worst as it is used for things and I dont wanna call a human „it“!

I mean in english, I have no problems talking about them, but in german it really makes me uncomfortable. Not because of the effort, but because of the outcome.

How do you deal with that?

In Italian we have a similar issue.
We rely a lot on "endings" to indicate gender and number of the subject of a sentence.
In the written language, we have a solution, since we could use the * or the x, despite it looks quite unnatural, it still works.
In the talked language, however, it's difficult, because we don't have a proper sound to avoid both the "o" (male) and the "a" (female). Someone proposed to use the "u" sound, but it sounds quite bad (and similar to the Calabrian or the Sardinian dialect, btw). Eliminating the vocal sound at the end of the words it's even worse.
I don't know any NB people to talk to in real life, only on social media or celebrities like Nemo, so I rarely had to face this issue. But it's likely that tomorrow I could talk with someone about Eurovision 2024 and obviously Nemo and I don't know how to address them. I'll probably play on it since probably I'll not discussing with very sensitive people to this topic, but I am in search for a solution.

 

[PolarFoxxie.]

Super happy that my favourite won and supper happy that someone I didn't want to win at all lost.

This might be karma for Croatia for giving Nemo 0 points. The only country to give Switzerland 0 points in jurry and only 1 out of max 24 for Switzerland. But swiss song was the best of the night. And absolutely deserved it.

Well done Nemo. All the love from Croatian guy from Germany.

PS for all the haters, don't worry about the trophy. He got new last night. They just need to put Swedish flag and city of malme on it.

 

[Lumina]

This might be karma for Croatia for giving Nemo 0 points.

I like Nemo and also the song, but for real…
Croatia didn’t get points from Switzerland either (the typical top 2 contenders rivalry) and not only zero points from Swiss jury but also from Switzerland‘s allies Greece, Portugal and Spain who wanted Nemo to win (the pro-Palestine mob) and they also didn’t get points by San Marino because their song fall into the same kind of metal-pop category (again, strategically).

 

[TB98]

I like Nemo and also the song, but for real…
Croatia didn’t get points from Switzerland either (the typical top 2 contenders rivalry) and not only zero points from Swiss jury but also from Switzerland‘s allies Greece, Portugal and Spain who wanted Nemo to win (the pro-Palestine mob) and they also didn’t get points by San Marino because their song fall into the same kind of metal-pop category (again, strategically).

Swiss jury gave Croatia 8 points and the televote 10.

 

[PolarFoxxie.]

I like Nemo and also the song, but for real…
Croatia didn’t get points from Switzerland either (the typical top 2 contenders rivalry) and not only zero points from Swiss jury

Are you trolling on purpose. First check something before you write complete and utter lie. Swiss jurry gave Croatia 8 points and I need to check how many he got from Swiss televote.

Baby lasagna got 18 points from Switzerland and Nemo got 1 point from Switzerland.

 

[ViVillRejv]

Nemo deserved this win in particular for a physically demanding choreo yet STILL nailing all the parts of the song (When do they even get the time to breathe lol?) in a year where many sung bad. The jury awarded impeccable vocals from Switzerland, the public the most captivating performance (Baby Lasagna had the crowd in his hand); I'm happy with the final results of this year.

 

[PeterLPZ]

This was so authenic and great. I´m really happy for Nemo. So congratulations for the deserved victory.

 

[Augustas]

I like Nemo and also the song, but for real…
Croatia didn’t get points from Switzerland either (the typical top 2 contenders rivalry) and not only zero points from Swiss jury but also from Switzerland‘s allies Greece, Portugal and Spain who wanted Nemo to win (the pro-Palestine mob) and they also didn’t get points by San Marino because their song fall into the same kind of metal-pop category (again, strategically).

That's how you do a classic propaganda, a good reminder to check the facts.

 

[CatTully]

Vocals were truly something incredible.

Shame they were in the service of a terious vocal exercise and not an engaging song.

 

[esc87fan]

The song debuted at #17 on the Spotify Global chart. As of right now, it's #40 in overall singles and #13 on the pop chart on iTunes here in Canada

 

[Sammy]

Nemo‘s victory brought back the discussions about an official recognition of a third gender in Switzerland.

Post-Song-Contest-Debatte über dritten Geschlechtseintrag in der Schweiz

Nach dem Nemo-Sieg hoffen Aktivist:innen auf rechtliche Verbesserungen für nonbinäre Personen. Vergangenes Jahr machte Künstler:in Nemo öffentlich, sich weder als Mann noch als Frau zu definieren

www.derstandard.at

Nice to see that somethings may change (also and very importanty for intersex people that many seem to forget)

 

[Lumina]

Swiss jury gave Croatia 8 points and the televote 10.

Yes, my mistake, sorry! I looked at Eurovisionworld and that circle makes my head spin… sometimes it’s hard to see!
I mixed it up with the Switzerland allies that gave zero points to Croatia. I stand by my point. Which is, "rivals" have always been given few to zero points to the other country. In this case, it wasn’t Switzerland themselves but their „allies“.

And Nemo was my no. 3 this year (actually I had three no. 1 this year and he was one of the three) and I‘m really happy he won!! :-)
Just for the sake of fairness, Croatia should have won but Nemo winning is great too!

 

[Fluke]

Is there any footage showing how that thing he's standing on works? Who built it, who came up with it, how did he practice with it? I've seen surprisingly little about it, considering how everyone who saw it comments on it.

 

[Augustas]

Yes, my mistake, sorry! I looked at Eurovisionworld and that circle makes my head spin… sometimes it’s hard to see!
I mixed it up with the Switzerland allies that gave zero points to Croatia. I stand by my point. Which is, "rivals" have always been given few to zero points to the other country. In this case, it wasn’t Switzerland themselves but their „allies“.

And Nemo was my no. 3 this year (actually I had three no. 1 this year and he was one of the three) and I‘m really happy he won!! :-)
Just for the sake of fairness, Croatia should have won but Nemo winning is great too!

just stop it already with your imagination of fairness. Yeah, the Switzerland's mafia ordered their "allies" to tank Croatia in jury vote Or maybe Croatia needed better vocalist with more powerful voice to get higher jury points? Just wait for the next year, maybe your favorite will win then.

 

[Slabsson79]

In order for the prophecy to be fullfilled....hold the contest in Lausanne. I want Croatia to win next year.