Should the EBU ban Georgia?

[A-lister]

I imagine the jury placed Poland in a terrible place because they knew Brits would vote for boobs. Yes. But that wouldnt have been under the BBC's instruction, the BBC couldnt really care less who we give 12 points to.

The difference is that Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia's broadcasters are corrupt and politically favour/disfavour countries, and rig their juries to vote a certain way (and try to buy other juries as well). The sooner they're got rid of the better.

They systematically put Poland last, and that had nothing to do with boobs nor a judgment on the song/performance/vocal performance because in comparison to other entries, in particular in its semi, I highly doubt any musical "experts" would consider that the worst of the bunch. It was an unfortunate systematical and cynical move to sabotage the televoting and it smelled political undertones. I never expected juries to love the entry or anything, quite the contrary, but seeing the actions of some countries' juries and putting two and two together it was quite sad to see, not the results itself, but the reasons for it. I just find it odd with the hypocrisy here.

I don't want to get rid of Georgia, as far as I'm concerned they never really cheated or anything in this contest? (well except for maybe this time then). I mean, I can't recall any previous reports. Unlike in the case of Azerbaijan where it's been reported pretty much each year that votes were bought etc. As for Armenia, well did people really expect Azerbaijan and Armenia to vote for eachother? Atleast Armenia HAS been giving Azerbaijan some points in the past.

The major problem here is the new ranking system, it just opens up for jury sabotaging and manipulations. EBU better get rid of this system.

 

[ClassifiedCat]

Yeah, because only countries in the east does this? The juries RTÉ brought proved that not only countries in the east does this... unfortunately the Irish juries were politicized and it was sad to see such unprofessionalism.

If EBU would ban countries based on jury biasism or what else, then Ireland should be on that list too.

I however don't think any countries should be banned this time around, but warnings and a much needed change in the voting system could be helpful.

Exactly how were our juries politicized? Poland is a non-jury song.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

They systematically put Poland last, and that had nothing to do with boobs nor a judgment on the song/performance/vocal performance because in comparison to other entries, in particular in its semi, I highly doubt any musical "experts" would consider that the worst of the bunch. It was an unfortunate systematical and cynical move to sabotage the televoting and it smelled political undertones. I never expected juries to love the entry or anything, quite the contrary, but seeing the actions of some countries' juries and putting two and two together it was quite sad to see, not the results itself, but the reasons for it. I just find it odd with the hypocrisy here.

I don't want to get rid of Georgia, as far as I'm concerned they never really cheated or anything in this contest. Not really sure what happened with the jury vote though. Did all the juries vote the same or what?

Your quarrel is with the whole jury system then, rather than the specific broadcasters who's juries placed Poland last . I am telling you for a fact, knowing who was on our jury, they will have expected Brits to vote for boobs (and it turns out we did), and the specific jury members wouldnt have been happy with that, and so they gave Poland the last position. I have no doubt that this was cynical and wrong, but it's no sign of broadcaster corruption - as I say, the BBC wouldnt care who got the 12 points and probably would have been quite happy if it had been Poland.

In contrast, the broadcasters of the Caucus nations are corrupt, and deliberately set out to bend foreign juries and rig their own. That is unacceptable at Eurovision and they should be banned as a consequence.

 

[bubblingtrue]

Let's just see if the EBU have the balls and stand by what they say...

 

[A-lister]

Exactly how were our juries politicized? Poland is a non-jury song.

Yeah, let's pretend the Irish and UK juries put it systematically LAST in the semi and final because of the song or performance. Let's do if that makes us feel more comfortable.

I never expected juries to support Poland, quite the contrary. However seeing HOW it all went down, made me question even more things than just their generally lame taste in music, and especially BBC and RTÉ (and a couple of others) are really standing out from the rest here.

 

[A-lister]

Your quarrel is with the whole jury system then, rather than the specific broadcasters who's juries placed Poland last . I am telling you for a fact, knowing who was on our jury, they will have expected Brits to vote for boobs (and it turns out we did), and the specific jury members wouldnt have been happy with that, and so they gave Poland the last position. I have no doubt that this was cynical and wrong, but it's no sign of broadcaster corruption - as I say, the BBC wouldnt care who got the 12 points and probably would have been quite happy if it had been Poland.

In contrast, the broadcasters of the Caucus nations are corrupt, and deliberately set out to bend foreign juries and rig their own. That is unacceptable at Eurovision and they should be banned as a consequence.

So you mean that the Caucaus nations' broadcasters should be held accountable for their juries' votes, but BBC or RTÉ shouldn't even be questioned when the people they pick as juries are voting in a biased non-professional way? I smell a double standard here sorry.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

So you mean that the Caucaus nations' broadcasters should be held accountable for their juries' votes, but BBC or RTÉ shouldn't even be questioned when the people they pick as juries are voting in a biased non-professional way? I smell a double standard here sorry.

Well you dont seem to be listening to the arguments tonight so I will stop trying to explain it to you You know full well the difference between what happened in Britain and Ireland this year and what happens in the Caucaus EVERY year

 

[ClassifiedCat]

Yeah, let's pretend the Irish and UK juries put it systematically LAST in the semi and final because of the song or performance. Let's do if that makes us feel more comfortable.

I never expected juries to support Poland, quite the contrary. However seeing HOW it all went down, made me question even more things than just their generally lame taste in music, and especially BBC and RTÉ (and a couple of others) are really standing out from the rest here.

The real reason why it did so well in both televotes was not because of boobs but of diaspora.

 

[A-lister]

The real reason why it did so well in both televotes was not because of boobs but of diaspora.

I never said it did well because of boobs, I know it did partly well due to diaspora, however this doesn't give the juries the right to block it just because they somehow hate Polish people (which seems to be the case here)

Polish people live and work hard in both Ireland and UK, they shouldn't be treated as some scum and juries shouldn't vote based on populist politics. This was pretty much the first time Polish diaspora even seemed to care about the Polish entry, it's not as if this is Turkey or anything and that the diaspora is doing this each time, if that would have been the case then Poland would have been top. 10 each year during the 100% televoting years. For the first time Poland had a stand-out entry and it was backed by both diaspora and locals. If the juries are so nationalist and uncomfortable in their own skin, then they're on the wrong job.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

The real reason why it did so well in both televotes was not because of boobs but of diaspora.

Come off it! Poland was up there cuz of boobs, I voted for it cuz of them

 

[ClassifiedCat]

I never said it did well because of boobs, I know it did partly well due to diaspora, however this doesn't give the juries the right to block it just because they somehow hate Polish people (which seems to be the case here)

Polish people live and work hard in both Ireland and UK, they shouldn't be treated as some scum and juries shouldn't vote based on populist politics. This was pretty much the first time Polish diaspora even seemed to care about the Polish entry, it's not as if this is Turkey or anything and that the diaspora is doing this each time, if that would have been the case then Poland would have been top. 10 each year during the 100% televoting years. For the first time Poland had a stand-out entry and it was backed by both diaspora and locals. If the juries are so nationalist and uncomfortable in their own skin, then they're on the wrong job.

Neither Irish or British people do NOT hate Polish people, true there are many in both countries but that doesn't make it a reason to hate them.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

I never said it did well because of boobs, I know it did partly well due to diaspora, however this doesn't give the juries the right to block it just because they somehow hate Polish people (which seems to be the case here)

Polish people live and work hard in both Ireland and UK, they shouldn't be treated as some scum and juries shouldn't vote based on populist politics. This was pretty much the first time Polish diaspora even seemed to care about the Polish entry, it's not as if this is Turkey or anything and that the diaspora is doing this each time, if that would have been the case then Poland would have been top. 10 each year during the 100% televoting years. For the first time Poland had a stand-out entry and it was backed by both diaspora and locals. If the juries are so nationalist and uncomfortable in their own skin, then they're on the wrong job.

Dont you see the contradiction in what you've written here?! Apparently Poles are hated, yet the popular vote awards 12 points to Poland but it's the professional jury that blocks it... makes no sense at all!

 

[A-lister]

Neither Irish or British people do NOT hate Polish people, true there are many in both countries but that doesn't make it a reason to hate them.

Well, the juries seemed to be very bothered by the fact that Polish diaspora could have a say in the results so they had to make a statement with putting the entry last. That is what happened here. People can state otherwise, but it's pretty blatant.

I didn't say all Irish or British people hated Poles, but unfortunately there's a current political landscape where somehow Eastern Europeans are being blamed for alot of things, even if they work hard and assimilate. Didn't the Irish press wrote the day after semis that Ireland deserved to qualify and not Poland? I mean that's kinda random? Why Poland? And last place in the semi? Was it really such a lousy vocal performance or something?

Point being, if Georgia is to be banned because of what their juries did, I'd say atleast BBC and RTÉ should receive warnings for having juries using political motives in their voting.

 

[A-lister]

Dont you see the contradiction in what you've written here?! Apparently Poles are hated, yet the popular vote awards 12 points to Poland but it's the professional jury that blocks it... makes no sense at all!

Ehm, I wrote that the so called "professional jury" hates Poles? Not the general Brit/Irish-men (although there's a growing irrational dislike for Polish people on the British isles for sure).

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Ehm, I wrote that the so called "professional jury" hates Poles? Not the general Brit/Irish-men (although there's a growing irrational dislike for Polish people on the British isles for sure).

You have no evidence for either. As I said, the jury will have predicted how the people will vote, and they wouldnt have liked for us to give 12 to Poland, not because they're Polish but because they wouldnt have liked the slutty performance.

 

[A-lister]

You have no evidence for either. As I said, the jury will have predicted how the people will vote, and they wouldnt have liked for us to give 12 to Poland, not because they're Polish but because they wouldnt have liked the slutty performance.

Either way, the move was cynical and calculated and not a judgment on the music or the performance of the singer. So even if you mean that there wasn't any political undertones in the voting (which I still think there were), it was still highly unprofessional and questionable. The juries shouldn't "punish" the viewers, that's not really their purpose, and it felt the move was directed at Polish diaspora in particular.

Again bottom-line, if EBU would ban Georgia, they shouldn't be hypocrites atleast. I think there's lots of double standards here, people assume the worst by the eastern countries, but protect similar behavior when it's committed by western. I think all forms of biasism should be dealt with.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Either way, the move was cynical and calculated and not a judgment on the music or the performance of the singer. So even if you mean that there wasn't any political undertones in the voting (which I still think there were), it was still highly unprofessional and questionable. The juries shouldn't "punish" the viewers, that's not really their purpose.

Well now we agree

 

[Sammy]

Well, the juries seemed to be very bothered by the fact that Polish diaspora could have a say in the results so they had to make a statement with putting the entry last. That is what happened here. People can state otherwise, but it's pretty blatant.

I didn't say all Irish or British people hated Poles, but unfortunately there's a current political landscape where somehow Eastern Europeans are being blamed for alot of things, even if they work hard and assimilate. Didn't the Irish press wrote the day after semis that Ireland deserved to qualify and not Poland? I mean that's kinda random? Why Poland? And last place in the semi? Was it really such a lousy vocal performance or something?

Point being, if Georgia is to be banned because of what their juries did, I'd say atleast BBC and RTÉ should receive warnings for having juries using political motives in their voting.

I'm amazed by your ability to read jury members minds.
But not every decision that you don't like has to be the result of a conspiracy.
What about if the british jury didn't like the song? Given the fact that this entry was controversial for its staging, that seems much more plausible.
And the commentary of a national newspaper of a non qualifying country is hardly a reliable indicator for a goul voting.

 

[A-lister]

I'm amazed by your ability to read jury members minds.
But not every decision that you don't like has to be the result of a conspiracy.
What about if the british jury didn't like the song? Given the fact that this entry was controversial for its staging, that seems much more plausible.
And the commentary of a national newspaper of a non qualifying country is hardly a reliable indicator for a goul voting.

I'm amazed by your ability to read jury members mind too since you're so convinced I'm wrong

I can just two and two together, I'm sorry if people can't see the blatant obvious here.

 

[Sammy]

Well the difference is, I SUPPOSE something that seems plausible.
What you call "obvious" (and therefore take for true) is an assumption that is not so probable.