Opinion on racism shown in voting?!

[A-lister]

Sorry for the late response. WV hosting is taking all my time. In case I end up forgetting to answer you, don't hesitate to pm me.

That's why it's called theory. Plus, when we talk about research in humanities (I can properly guarantee this towards my field which is communication), it is pretty much impossible to have "100% factual" research as you can't have an unbiased mind.

The keyword here is can. Voting is still a reflex of one's society, whether it's a presidential election or a song contest voting. If said society is racist, it is expected that they can also be racist while voting. Mind you that we are talking about the >collective< here. We can't evaluate millions of votes individually. We are not a census. Just don't forget that while it can't be proved that all of these results are racist!!!!!11, it also applies to the opposite claim. in the end, these results (not just the ones in 2021, but in general) are caused by several circumstances, and subconscious racism can definitely be one of them.

Also, have you thought of... I don't know... look at things from another perspective? If "sucking out the fun" means "giving a safer space to minorities", I definitely know which one I prefer. And don't forget, as I said before, Eurovision IS a "woke" event and it is branded this way (and to be honest, oppression is everywhere, given that it's rooted in our minds and thoughts but go off I guess).

No problem

Well, either you believe that the 'collective' (in the context we talk would be the average Eurovision voter) is inherent racist or you don't, I simply don't, and I guess this is where we simply differ so we will never really come to an agreement here.

Yes, I stick to my opinion that this is just an attempt to spread "wokeness" into yet another forum, nothing else.

I am happy to discuss the concept of racism and its issues in other contexts, however I can't add anything more to this particular context as I simply don't believe in that argument.

 

[hijirio]

I think it's rather the fact that most black singers recently in ESC go for American-style vocal showcase type of songs, I can see the juries going wet over it, but they are not very televote-friendly.

I don't remember a televote-friendly entry sung by a black singer flopping in recent history (in fact Destiny did super well with the televoters in sf1), well, on the contrary in 2017 Joci Papai slayed the televotes but was tanked by the juries, so the juries hate gypsies and televoters were more friendly back then but not anymore?

 

[Iker]

This is silly. Why throw racism into everything?

 

[Himan]

The question is: who started this thread. I mean, the starter of this thread is someone who thought there wasn't any racism in voting. Not someone who thought there was racism. I would for example never start this thread, though when asked, I will give my opinion and yes I think racism can cut points of people. How many? Well that's another question I can't answer. Do I think Eurovision is inclusive: Definitely. Do I want to talk about it? Not really. Am I being honest when asked the question: YES! It's an awful truth I know. I also think that all of you will definitely not do it on purpose. But unconsciously? Could be, right? I mean there is a test for this called the IAT test.

Take a Test

implicit.harvard.edu

 

[rasmuslights]

The question is: who started this thread. I mean, the starter of this thread is someone who thought there wasn't any racism in voting. Not someone who thought there was racism. I would for example never start this thread, though when asked, I will give my opinion and yes I think racism can cut points of people. How many? Well that's another question I can't answer. Do I think Eurovision is inclusive: Definitely. Do I want to talk about it? Not really. Am I being honest when asked the question: YES! It's an awful truth I know. I also think that all of you will definitely not do it on purpose. But unconsciously? Could be, right? I mean there is a test for this called the IAT test.

Take a Test

implicit.harvard.edu

I started this thread to discuss! my opinion is that there of course is racism, but do racist people watch eurovision or even further vote for the songs at esc? doubtfully... therefore I just think it's bs that black artists "underperformed" because of that... Especially because some people voted for them just to support them for their skin colour/message...

 

[Uto]

I think it's rather the fact that most black singers recently in ESC go for American-style vocal showcase type of songs, I can see the juries going wet over it, but they are not very televote-friendly.

Solid observation. Didn't really make this connection but it's kind of obvious when I think about it.

 

[MopManMoss]

Ive seen plenty of people on twitter claim that the only reason that Tusse ended up on the right hand side of the board is because of racism which is particularly funny when you think that John Ludvik and the Mamas came fifth at the last eurovision, could it maybe be perhaps that Voices was the blandest poorly performed Swedish song of the last ten years?

 

[Ana Raquel]

I think it's rather the fact that most black singers recently in ESC go for American-style vocal showcase type of songs, I can see the juries going wet over it, but they are not very televote-friendly.

I don't remember a televote-friendly entry sung by a black singer flopping in recent history (in fact Destiny did super well with the televoters in sf1), well, on the contrary in 2017 Joci Papai slayed the televotes but was tanked by the juries, so the juries hate gypsies and televoters were more friendly back then but not anymore?

Matador in 2010 is another example. It's old news that juries boost western commercial pop songs while tanking experimental, rock and folk tunes. I wouldn't be surprised if there was subconscious racism or xenophobia involved. Mikaela Minga, anyone?

Gladly, we had an improvement this year, with Italy actually getting a lot of points, Manizha doing better than expected and Go_A not completely destroyed. There is still a long way to go, but I am hopeful change is coming!

No problem

Well, either you believe that the 'collective' (in the context we talk would be the average Eurovision voter) is inherent racist or you don't, I simply don't, and I guess this is where we simply differ so we will never really come to an agreement here.

Yes, I stick to my opinion that this is just an attempt to spread "wokeness" into yet another forum, nothing else.

I am happy to discuss the concept of racism and its issues in other contexts, however I can't add anything more to this particular context as I simply don't believe in that argument.

It seems that neither of us will change our opinion so let's leave at that

 

[A-lister]

It seems that neither of us will change our opinion so let's leave at that

And that's totally fine, but it would have been interesting to see such claims being backed up by something substantial, other than a lecture in identity politics theories, the latter is easy to throw around, the former not so much.

 

[Ana Raquel]

And that's totally fine, but it would have been interesting to see such claims being backed up by something substantial, other than a lecture in identity politics theories, the latter is easy to throw around, the former not so much.

Good luck trying to prove any of the sides with something ~substantial~ then. You will need a team, a lot of money, a lot of data, etc to come up with a hypothesis at least. If you have all these resources, you can use the same money to back up my master's fees.