NSC 227, final results from 21 cet onwards, live from sclan

[Charly]

The hell did I miss

 

[dogmeat]

The rules are pretty clear on this, I'm afraid. If votes are not received by the stated deadline, then the host has the right to reject them. Even with the ambiguity regarding CET vs CEST, it is the hosts who have the final decision regarding how such ambiguities are handled. So it is up to the hosts whether Xochimilia's votes are accepted.

I will say, however, that there have been an unusual number of conflicts that have arisen this edition, and the manner in which they have been handled is concerning. In the past, we have trusted hosts to wield their power responsibly, but I am starting to question that approach. It saddens me to say that NSC is not the community it once was. We have become divided, angry, and increasingly isolated, as highlighted by @Zeus. Perhaps this is reflective of society in general, especially online.

To those who are asking the mods to "step up": I hear you. The NSC mod team is quite hands-off in general, preferring to place trust in the members to shape their own community. I am currently in discussion with the other mods to decide what action should be taken, if any.

First of all, Xochimilia is the winner of this edition. This case is NOT clear. I would normally agree that the host has the final say in resolving an ambiguous situation, but it doesn't apply here. The host's authority rule works under the assumption of their good will, which this edition's hosts do not have. They handled this situation the way they did in order to stir drama, and are now a side in the conflict. As such, they do not get to decide, let alone have the final say.

Please do not sweep this situation under the carpet hoping it's forgotten and everything goes back to normal. Because the new normal seems to be people losing interest, losing enjoyment, and ultimately leaving. And there is one person here who's always at the center of each drama, who revels in drama at the expense of everyone's enjoyment in this game.First of all, Xochimilia is the winner of this edition. This case is NOT clear. I would normally agree that the host has the final say in resolving an ambiguous situation, but it doesn't apply here. The host's authority rule works under the assumption of their good will, which this edition's hosts do not have. They handled this situation the way they did in order to stir drama, and are now a side in the conflict. As such, they do not get to decide, let alone have the final say.

The hands-off, democratic approach has worked very well throughout NSC's lifetime, and doesn't need to change. It only needs a community that can be trusted, and I do trust almost everybody here. It's just the "almost" that has to be dealt with. In other words, we don't need specific rules to prevent trolling, we just need to remove the troll.

 

[SpZ]

1. I think that in principle rejecting late voters is fine. I do find it a little strange that the hosts have suddenly shifted their approach about late voting between semis and the final though.
2. I do believe that this edition hosts are often acting in bad faith. While it is not possible to determinate the motivation of this decision nor do I think it is necessarily the wrong decision... It sure does look like something done for stirring up drama.

 

[Zeus]

Anyway, thank you again for hosting and congrats both @Buranovskiy and @theCONWEL for winning. You both won, who cares. Kings.

Konthena's votes in the GF:










Grand Duchy of Strenci

 

[EurovisionSmile]

First of all, I would like to thank all the votes and for us being at the top 6 in the end. Since things may change, I'd rather say it this way.


Secondly, to what this whole situation concerns, I asked a long time ago about the ddls. The replies can be read clicking on this thread's link: https://www.escunited.com/forum/threads/deadlines.23190/.
After that moment we've been constantly committed to voting before the ddl, and it was very hard to always achieve this . because it is very frustrating of literally being out of time (yes, as a teacher I can say that I can't breathe whole weeks in a row and I don't feel I had to quit the contest because of that.) Fortunately, we are 2 and one helps the other, I can say from safe source that @Nicholas123 is terribly busy as well. So, why should we blame the hosting team for following exactly what had been wriiten there? I think all this situation was way too aggressive and/ or cold from both ways . To what the shows are concerned. I've read so many times that "it doesn't matter if the shows are particularly fancy or not". And not all weren't and there's no need for them to be that. Personally, I think their work was respectable, I liked Luke's post reminding the late voters, so, all I can say is that I enjoyed their own way of hosting the show, I liked the banners and everything that the shows concerns. I feel I have to congratulate them for their work. I'm not taking sides, especially because I didn't pay attention to every detail, but what I've seen was a normal NSC show, and I can live without everyhting being too fancy, even though I love to see truly artistic works such as Veronika's and Stargazer's.
The moment where I think the hosting team did wrong was not replying to those whose votes were sent and wouldn't be counted.
As a member of this community, I would like people to discuss things, to disagree on a humorous and/ or respectable way. But this is a personal opinion and if I didn't see anything that leads me to conclude there was about trolling that might be because NSC is also about trolling humorousuly, or just my lack of attention.

On the other hand, I feel sad for Xochimilia, nation that got me used to place us both on common grounds to what their juror's songs/choices are concerned, because of how lovely they are to me, not this one particularly, but they got the best result. They have got the best result, the juror failed to understand where he stood time wise.That explanation could have been given if there was some kind of dialogue with him Someone from the hosting team should have replied to the members who sent their votes, But I can't say what should be done and / or exactly what should be done. And considering certain aspects it is not my place to decide.

P.s. This only reflects my opinion, not Nicholas's. If I failed to follow or notice any personal issues from any member, I apologise in advance for not including those facts in my text.

 

[EurovisionSmile]

All our combined votes:

SF 1 - REJU

(L)

12 VYLKUZEME
10 TROLLHEIMR
08 FIERRARIA
07 ENDORË
06 MARCOBIA
05 CALYPSO
04 INSOMNÉA
03 ROSELAND
02 TCHER-RACOI
01 CHERNIYA


SF 2

(L+N)

12 SZIMBAYA KINGDOM (12+04)
10 KONTHENA (03+12)
08 REYM-L-DNEURB (05+10)
07 SVOBODNIA (07+05)
06 SÖDERMALM (06+06)
05 GRIFFIN EMPIRE (10+00)
04 RAHASIA-DIATI (08+00)
03 TAUMASIA & DELTANNOR (00+08)
02 ILLUMIA (00+07)
01 AIMULLI (04+00)

ORANGUALIA (01+02)
MATIMATI (00+03)
NEW ACADIA (02+00)
FERVOROSIA (00+01)

FINAL

12 FIERRARIA (12+03)
10 KONTHENA (03+12)
08 SÖDERMALM (06+07)
07 TROLLHEIMR (10+02)
06 ORANGUALIA (02+10)
05 VYLKUZEME (07+01)
04 GRIFFIN EMPIRE (08+00)
03 YETO-YA-YETO (00+08)
02 TAUMASIA & DELTANNOR (00+06)
01 CALYPSO (05+00)

ILLUMIA (00+05)
INSOMNÉA (04+00)
BELVIST (00+04)
GRAND DUTCHY OF STRENCI (01+00)

 

[Marcos C]

It's time for an episode of Marcos' What If...?

What if the official time of Nation Song Contest were North America's Mountain Time. Most of the American states in that time zone are observing daylight saving time, so they are in Mountain Daylight Time (CEST-8). However, Buranovskiy is based in Phoenix, Arizona, an area that does not observe daylight saving time and is therefore in Mountain Standard Time (CEST-9), the same time as Pacific Daylight Time and one hour behind MDT. Buranovskiy's votes were submitted at 11:52 pm MST. According to Buranovskiy's understanding of "Deadline is 11:59 pm MT," Buranovskiy voted before the deadline. However, Luke, who is based on Denver, Colorado (a MT zone city that observes DST), considered the vote to be late because of his view of MT as MDT.

Since the United States uses Eastern Time (now CEST-6) for national activity, the above scenario would not happen in real life, but I hope you get my point.

 

[EurovisionSmile]

Big thanks with lots of love to:

New Bander State 8
Grand Dutchy of Stenci 6
Sakuralia 5
Trollheimr 10
Konthena 4
Fierraria 12
Vylkuzeme 8
Dalisska 7
Belvist 12
Tcher-Racoi 4
Cydoni-Gibberia 2
Kamandé 8
Tir-an-Abhainn 6
Cherniya 10
Rumia 3
Elvaci 4
Redwood Republic 8
Akatsuki 6
New Acadia 10
Zombira 7
Rahasia-Diati 7 *may everything be alright with @Veronika! *

MatiMati 7
Aimulli 10
WL - Vermillion 6

 

[Le Bruit]

Since I am technically a moderator I did act swiftly and assuming the role of a regular user in this instance I reported this post for throwing heavy personal accusations and uncalled for F-bombs.
Guy, I know you as a kind, polite, big-hearted individual. Do you really, like EVER wish to discriminate against anyone so openly without any intention for consolidation and dialogue by telling them to ‘get the **** out’? Bad form.

I am a kind and polite person, yes. Until repeated actions by individual(s) become detrimental to a group without being sanctioned. Then, kindness and politeness can go f*** themselves.

Exposing a disorganized hosting is not throwing heavy personal accusations. It is underlining a problem that should be investigated, instead of being swept under the rug. I am comparing apples with apples: the presentation, management, and communications of this edition were abyssal compared to the 100+ editions I have taken part in, and certainly not up to NSC standards I have respected over the years. Thus, those who must be held accountable by moderators should be pointed out by the community and, following an analysis of the situation, receive due consequences, and not be permitted to continue acting as they do.

My previous post wasn't meant as an attack to moderators. The last line, that was edited out, was a general advice directed towards any individual, part of this edition or not, present and future, in every situation, to be better or to take the door.

 

[Otto]

First of all, Xochimilia is the winner of this edition. This case is NOT clear. I would normally agree that the host has the final say in resolving an ambiguous situation, but it doesn't apply here. The host's authority rule works under the assumption of their good will, which this edition's hosts do not have. They handled this situation the way they did in order to stir drama, and are now a side in the conflict. As such, they do not get to decide, let alone have the final say.

Please explain to me why you take offence to the hosts for following the rules at their discretion, particularly the one about late votes, when you yourself have historically been known for doing the same?

The rules have been followed, there is no case to answer here from the hosts POV. We are sorry for any hurt caused and express our empathy, but the rules are there for the safeguarding of the contest and we followed them just as we should.

@dogmeat, I believe that it is your personal narrative that you've created around this hosting, which leads you to think we have acted in bad faith.

 

[Territrius]

Did the thread title say CET or CEST? If it said CET, did they vote within the deadline in the CET timezone? Should be pretty clear, there really shouldn't be any confusion.

 

[Canuck]

@Luke can you please release the scoreboards?

Here are the votes from New Acadia:
12 Griffin Empire - so happy this song was sent! was considering this edition
10 Kordavian Isls
08 Tamausia
07 Dalisska
06 Denmark of Spears
05 Fierraria
04 Xochimilia
03 Vylkuzeme
02 Waiting Iist
01 Konthena

 

[SpZ]

@Luke can you please release the scoreboards?

Here are the votes from New Acadia:
12 Griffin Empire - so happy this song was sent! was considering this edition
10 Kordavian Isls
08 Tamausia
07 Dalisska
06 Denmark of Spears
05 Fierraria
04 Xochimilia
03 Vylkuzeme
02 Waiting Iist
01 Konthena

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[Canuck]

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sorry must have missed it, thanks!

 

[pjelacki]

Did the thread title say CET or CEST? If it said CET, did they vote within the deadline in the CET timezone? Should be pretty clear, there really shouldn't be any confusion.

On this platform CET equals CEST, and vice versa.

... which is of course hilariously wrong.

This is daylight robbery of Xochimilia's maiden victory.

Edit: No hate against T&D of course.

 

[berlyda]

The full results of this edition can be accessed here.

Could you please share a version that includes the names of the Semi 2 voters?

EDIT: Luke has told me that something happened with that particular workbook, but he can probably salvage it from the edit history on the Excel file. He will fix it but is not able to do so today. (Just in case anyone was wondering about this.)

 

[Ana Raquel]

Yeah, I am a tad confused. How would people know that the interpretation here would be CET = CEST? Especially when 1. There are people not from Europe 2. There are newcomers who wouldn't know this is a normal interpretation.


Anyway. My semi 2 votes while it is not fixed:


12 / Begonia / Beast in Black - One Night in Tokyo
10 / Fervorosia / Käärijä x Erika Vikman - Ruoska
08 / Adamsburg / Ennaria - Monstarrr
07 / Aimulli / t.A.T.u. - Beliy plaschik
06 / Redwood Republic / Baby Lasagna - IG Boi
05 / Zombira / CANTERVICE - The Masquerade
04 / Effiland / Tripolism, Nandu & Radeckt - Soultrain
03 / Halito / maryjo - Don't Call Me
02 / Illumia / Discovery Zone - Dance II
01 / Tamausia & Deltannor / Mon Laferte - Tenochtitlán

 

[Otto]

Could you please share a version that includes the names of the Semi 2 voters?

The full results for this edition can be accessed here.

 

[Alevender]

Good evening everyone,

Given the large amount of reports we have received related to NSC 227 I have something to add as well, as it is not an inner problem anymore and we are witnessing people breaking Board Rules.

The most important thing I would like to remind is that successful hosting is not going to happen if communication between the host and participants is weak, passive-aggressive or simply does not exist at all. If you are hosting something, then it is completely normal that participants of the edition that you are responsible for, will have some expectations, will ask questions, will annoy you, will commit mistakes - and host has to be mentally ready for all these cases. If host is not there to help or even worse if host is not even willing to help, then it becomes host's primary problem and participants can not be blamed as it is the host who messed up.

YOu WIlL oNlY gEt A lIkE aS a REpoNsE oF CoNfiRmaTioN/VoTeS hAvInG BeeN SuCCeSFuLY CoUnTeD.

This is destined to fail. If you decide to play an ostrich when receiving an ineligible entry/incorrect set of votes/votes after deadline and do not respond, it will definitely result into a pages long drama. I do not get what exactly is so difficult about informing a member that something went wrong, like in this case with Xochimilia. If something was done incorrectly, then please inform the participant, look for a solution if possible/when necessary, involve the Mod Team if necessary because you have it for a reason, .. and that will actually make you look like a respectable host, not this "I am there just to do my bare minimum and not to care about your problems".

Hosting something does not automatically make one king of the contest who does not have to respect others, including NSC Mod Team. So please stop with the unnecessary and toxic "I do what I want, it is my hosting, my concept and my rules" attitude. Use your artistic freedom as much as you want as long it is not abusive. I personally do not care about the concept as long as it is fair and does not break our Board Rules which can lead you to a ban. You can make a brilliantly organized edition with text shows only.

The host is, first of all, a participant of the edition. It is forbidden to jump in with random decisions like sudden voting extension removal simply because of someone's attitude. Hosting duties >> hosting privileges. Their primary purpose is to make sure that everyone stands equal chance of sending an entry, votes etc. within the deadline otherwise it becomes a form of bullying which is not allowed on our Forum.

This edition was what it was and I understand the frustration but I would also like to ask people to stop throwing stones at each other and therefore breaking the Board Rules. Many things could and should have been done differently but it is not okay to become rude against each other.

All the best
Alevender

 

[Charly]

I'm very glad Alevender has commented and pointed this out.

Unfortunately the hosting environment compared to our WorldVision participant hosting is very different in terms of communication and organisational means. However, the way such hosting between the two contests are the same with however with stricter sense for WV.

I do believe NSC mods/hosts should take a look into the experiences coming from WV itself after all, WV has had maximum cooperation between the hosts and the moderator team. As evidenced in the last hosting which I was grateful to organise in a respectful manner.

However the most important thing NSC needs right now ofcourse is to turn the toxicity that is spreading and ensure communication between host and mods to ensure an enjoyable a d respectful edition.

Apologies if I'm going in circles and if none of it make sense