NSC 227, final results from 21 cet onwards, live from sclan

[Paper7]

Thanks for hosting to the hosts. Congrats to whoever won this in the end...

My votes:

Final (227)
12 Konthena: Odesza - Behind The Sun
10 Fervorosia: Käärijä x Erika Vikman - Ruoska
08 Waiting Iist of Shelley & Nici: TEYA - Behind The Scenes
07 Illumia: Discovery Zone - Dance II
06 Denmark of Spears: Xenoula - Luna Man
05 Trollheimr: Gwennyn - Me ivez
04 New Bander State: Kid Kapichi - Get Down
03 Sakuralia: Charlotte Cardin - Confetti
02 Xochimila: Zetak, Fillas de Cassandra - Anguleele
01 Griffin Empire: Solann - Rome

11. Vylkuzeme: Guzowianki - Na Jarmarku (Nad Wszytko Kochanie)
12. Ugaly: Night Club - Barbwire Kiss
13. Calypso: Leap- Exit Signs
14. Biflovatia: Supershy - Keep It Rising
15. Orangualia: Storefront Church - The High Room
16. Grand Duchy of Stenci: Ride - Vapour Trail

The only thing i will add to the discussion:

Is there maybe a script which could be implemented to the forum which gives out a deadline time according to the choosen time in the forum settings? Which could be implemented by a code like [time=CET]23:59[/time], but would be shown for everyone in his setted timezone? I think i have seen this somewhere, but i dont know if this is possible in this forum.

 

[Lenalite]

I have changed my forum time to CET to double check this.



And I see the time that you sent the results at 00:52.



We hosts discussed this matter today at length, and due to time constraints we decided to follow the NSC rules in this instance. There were other nations who did not vote in time (or at all), and we didn’t want to impose anything that gave an advantage for one set of nations who also voted late.

I am happy to share a video proof of this to the moderators if they request it.

The rules say that it is the hosts decision if votes are accepted or not. I personally remember NSC 123, hosted by @dogmeat, where my votes, were sent late and ultimately not counted. I don’t know what to say, the rules were followed.

As seen in the image shared by my co-host, this forum operates under UTC+01:00. And the forum itself automatically classifies it as CET, which has always been our reference point.

Getting absurdly technical and having an academic discussion regarding time zones makes little to no sense. On this platform CET equals CEST, and vice versa.

Likewise, the forum clock is and has always been accessible to everyone. It's up to the users to make sure that their local time complies with the forum standards.

I forgive personality flaws. I do not forgive malicious trolling

EDIT: I do not have the energy to explain myself in great detail right now, but Lenalite brought up a situation from over ten years ago, when my hosting happened in a time of great personal and emotional troubles. Which he is aware of. Those were struggles I've beaten since then and I prefer not to reminisce them. It was brought up with an intention to provoke me.

We all have personal and emotional troubles. That's called life. You can't ask for special treatment for having feelings.

-----
Also sad to see my sister @Tinchey give in to the bullying and choose to go. Thank you for standing up for us regardless. Your songs will be missed.

 

[Karhu]

The screenshot you posted even states, that CET is currently only observed in one African country, nowhere in Europe itself. I literally live in Greenwich, I know what time is.

Is NSC participation only for European citizens? Had I known that I wouldn't have ever signed up as I have no connection to the continent and am not particularly knowledgeable about European time zones myself.

Personally I think it's very upsetting that Xochimilia has been unfairly victimized for what was in reality an oversight on the part of the hosting committee, one which would have been easily forgiven and understood had the entire situation not rapidly devolved in such a devastating and unacceptable way. Personally I hope that @Buranovskiy is doing well emotionally and that their mental health hasn't been unduly negatively affected by this tragic situation, and that if it is, that they will be able to recover and heal from this traumatic experience. I just wanted to say that the people of Serenes stand by them no matter what ultimately comes of this, and I hope that we, as a community, are able to eventually reach a solution that brings justice and fairness to Xochimilia and the contest as a whole.

If we're being honest I already thought it was upsetting enough that Xochimilia's name had been consistently misspelled as "Xochimila" through the various shows with no explanation or apology, but now to snatch a long-awaited first NSC victory away from them... I don't understand why they are being repeatedly and unfairly singled out and attacked in this way when they clearly tried to do everything the proper way, and disqualifying them on a technicality that was in reality an inability on the part of the hosting crew to accept responsibility for accidentally posting the wrong time zone (which, again, would have been completely acceptable if the mistake had simply been admitted and relevant accommodations made) and assuming everyone would automatically understand the deadlines even when it has already been proven that some parts of the world still use CET and not CEST and even when this edition began before central Europe changed to summer time and thus even more leniency and understanding would be expected... I'm sorry, but this level of injustice is just too much for me to take and I can't simply sit silently and let this go without making my voice heard. I fear Serenes will be boycotting NSC 228 out of solidarity with the Xochimilian people and in the hopes that genuine change will come from this difficult and upsetting crisis, and that NSC will come out all the stronger from these turbulent times. #freexochimilia

 

[Lenalite]

@Luke I don't want to fully get into this and it might be an honest mistake of yours by forgetting or something so don't take this personnaly, but I think that the decent thing to do when you read a message of someone sending you their votes is to at least answer them to tell them if their votes were accepted or not

On another note, it was written in the confirmation thread, and made clear from the get go, that we would not respond to any votes or DMs, and that a thumbs up reaction would mean that the enquiry was successful. In this case, the lack of reaction meant that the votes had not been counted.

Revisit the confirmations thread if you need more information.

 

[Lenalite]

Is NSC participation only for European citizens? Had I known that I wouldn't have ever signed up as I have no connection to the continent and am not particularly knowledgeable about European time zones myself.

Personally I think it's very upsetting that Xochimilia has been unfairly victimized for what was in reality an oversight on the part of the hosting committee, one which would have been easily forgiven and understood had the entire situation not rapidly devolved in such a devastating and unacceptable way. Personally I hope that @Buranovskiy is doing well emotionally and that their mental health hasn't been unduly negatively affected by this tragic situation, and that if it is, that they will be able to recover and heal from this traumatic experience. I just wanted to say that the people of Serenes stand by them no matter what ultimately comes of this, and I hope that we, as a community, are able to eventually reach a solution that brings justice and fairness to Xochimilia and the contest as a whole.

If we're being honest I already thought it was upsetting enough that Xochimilia's name had been consistently misspelled as "Xochimila" through the various shows with no explanation or apology, but now to snatch a long-awaited first NSC victory away from them... I don't understand why they are being repeatedly and unfairly singled out and attacked in this way when they clearly tried to do everything the proper way, and disqualifying them on a technicality that was in reality an inability on the part of the hosting crew to accept responsibility for accidentally posting the wrong time zone (which, again, would have been completely acceptable if the mistake had simply been admitted and relevant accommodations made) and assuming everyone would automatically understand the deadlines even when it has already been proven that some parts of the world still use CET and not CEST and even when this edition began before central Europe changed to summer time and thus even more leniency and understanding would be expected... I'm sorry, but this level of injustice is just too much for me to take and I can't simply sit silently and let this go without making my voice heard. I fear Serenes will be boycotting NSC 228 out of solidarity with the Xochimilian people and in the hopes that genuine change will come from this difficult and upsetting crisis, and that NSC will come out all the stronger from these turbulent times. #freexochimilia

Kudos for saying that. For spilling.

Jokes aside, they even got the freaking pimp slot. What more do you want? We had been rooting for them from the get go. These are all baseless accusations.

We apologize for the typo. But a typo is a typo. There was no malice in that. Had it come to our realization, we would've fixed it immediately. To say that it was done on purpose, as an attack, is outrageous, and extremely disrespectful towards us. This stamement alone proves how the Skype-gang sees us. And it's unfair.

My country names had been written wrongly for a millennia now, and in fact on purpose, throughout the years, with some users consistently avoiding the correct form despite all my remarks (hello, umlauts).

Hell, even my pronouns, which are still being currently misgendered, even on this thread (on a freaking Eurovision forum, which supposedly embraces queerness openly). So please, let's not try to play a game of victimization and fall into logical fallacies to make our arguments seem more valid than they actually are.

You can support your favorite and agree to disagree without throwing personal accusations on the way. #tolerance

 

[Ewigkeit]

titles wRitTen LiKe tHis

But it's cool when tUnE-yArDs do it??

 

[Canuck]

Just want to say it’s a shame this edition has devolved to this and that the mods should probably step in before this turns more toxic…

 

[Marcos C]

But it's cool when tUnE-yArDs do it??

To me, it's never cool, no matter who does it. It took me at least twice as long to read when written that way.

 

[Ana Raquel]

Just something. CET for me is UTC+1. CEST is UTC+2 (and I imagine it's the same for people who do not live in Europe). If a deadline is set to CET I will think of UTC+1, not CEST/UTC+2. Soooo uhhh no, not the same, really.

 

[Le Bruit]

How do you vote an hour, even a few minutes, before a deadline, when you got a whole week to do so? Is being so extremely last minute some sort of kink some of you can't resist to?

A number of NSC players need a time management class, badly.

This hosting was confusing, passive-agressive, uninterested, and thrown away. In my 17 years in NSC, where I don't talk that much on the forum because I am just playing this game of sending songs and rating them for fun, minding my own business, and exchanging with like-minded, music loving people, this has to be one of the worst organized edition I have experienced.
It doesn't have anything to do with graphics or artistic skills. It has everything to do with social skills.

Some people in this community have had more than 3 strikes. Blatantly acting as bullies and reacting as victims when things turn against them. I expect the moderators, who I fully put my trust into to make this game cohesive and enjoyable, to act swiftly, so things can be go back to being healthy.

 

[Marcos C]

Just something. CET for me is UTC+1. CEST is UTC+2 (and I imagine it's the same for people who do not live in Europe). If a deadline is set to CET I will think of UTC+1, not CEST/UTC+2. Soooo uhhh no, not the same, really.

To my displeasure, many Americans are far more forgiving concerning the names of time zones than Europeans. Let's take my time zone, for example. Despite the fact that we are observing daylight saving time and we are in Eastern Daylight Time (EDT), many individuals and some organizations are still using the term Eastern Standard Time (EST). Perhaps as a consequence of this situation, the American media simply use the term Eastern Time (ET) year-round to tell the time in my time zone. The same is true for USA's other time zones. However, as we have witnessed, Europeans do not have the luxury of shortening time zone names. I wish that my fellow Americans could be as precise about time zone names as Europeans.

 

[Ana Raquel]

To my displeasure, many Americans are far more forgiving concerning the names of time zones than Europeans. Let's take my time zone, for example. Despite the fact that we are observing daylight saving time and we are in Eastern Daylight Time (EDT), many individuals and some organizations are still using the term Eastern Standard Time (EST). Perhaps as a consequence of this situation, the American media simply use the term Eastern Time (ET) year-round to tell the time in my time zone. The same is true for USA's other time zones. However, as we have witnessed, Europeans do not have the luxury of shortening time zone names. I wish that my fellow Americans could be as precise about time zone names as Europeans.

I think back when there used to have DST in Brazil, they would still say Brasília Time, and then it was up to people to figure out whether their state adopted the DST or not (mine didn't, so we were always behind an hour compared to Brasília).

 

[apasionata]

I expect the moderators, who I fully put my trust into to make this game cohesive and enjoyable, to act swiftly, so things can be go back to being healthy.

Since I am technically a moderator I did act swiftly and assuming the role of a regular user in this instance I reported this post for throwing heavy personal accusations and uncalled for F-bombs.
Guy, I know you as a kind, polite, big-hearted individual. Do you really, like EVER wish to discriminate against anyone so openly without any intention for consolidation and dialogue by telling them to ‘get the **** out’? Bad form.

 

[pjelacki]

This thread be like

 

[Zeus]

So first you have the WL and all kinds of mandatory tasks to stay on it, then you enter the main competition to find.. a lack of community and d r a m a almost every edition. It's quite telling that so far sinced I joined this contest the only times I felt there was something of a "community" sensible it was because of negative reasons.

I do want to thank the hosts for hosting. And I will say that I think some of the criticism they got is a bit rude. I'm talking mostly about the criticism related to how they presented the show. Every host gets that bit of freedom, you might like or dislike a theme, certain choices or graphics, but that shouldn't really be a big deal I feel. Not everyone is Picasso and/or has the same amount of time and energy for a hosting.

I don't want to get too involved in all the drama about timezones and whatever. But it's clear that unlike WV there not being a strict rule regarding voting deadlines give you situations like these. The hosts make decisions, they have that freedom and different hosts uses that freedom differently. It's a recipe for trouble and discussions.

Most of all I feel it might be time for clear rules, (possibly some new) mods taking the lead without 26 new occuring polls to vote in and some work that might be done on the aspect of community-building. Right now, this isn't a very enjoyable contest for new people to discover and join and I know I'm not the only new participant to have this drained, negative feeling regarding this contest this early already.

 

[Fearnavigatr]

Before I go into anything else, let me just nip this in the bud.

Unlike you, who had to be summoned by the police before being able to continue your hosting duties.

Without going into much detail, this is referencing an event over a decade ago where the police were contacted (by me) over genuine safety concerns for another member, which thankfully turned out to be unfounded. Saying that missing NSC results were the reason for it was fun to joke about in the aftermath, but it simply isn't true, and neither is any implication that the results only appeared because of the police involvement, please don't perpetuate that myth.

 

[Looren]

On another note, it was written in the confirmation thread, and made clear from the get go, that we would not respond to any votes or DMs, and that a thumbs up reaction would mean that the enquiry was successful. In this case, the lack of reaction meant that the votes had not been counted.

Revisit the confirmations thread if you need more information.

Alright fair I didn't see that in the confirmation thread, I think it's a dumb thing to do but if it was written alright, I still think that the decent thing to do would've been to tell Buranovskiy that they were late

Also I had an answer to my votes so that makes this kind of laughable

I do hope the mods step up and take a decision, and make the rules about all of this clearer

 

[berlyda]

The rules are pretty clear on this, I'm afraid. If votes are not received by the stated deadline, then the host has the right to reject them. Even with the ambiguity regarding CET vs CEST, it is the hosts who have the final decision regarding how such ambiguities are handled. So it is up to the hosts whether Xochimilia's votes are accepted.

I will say, however, that there have been an unusual number of conflicts that have arisen this edition, and the manner in which they have been handled is concerning. In the past, we have trusted hosts to wield their power responsibly, but I am starting to question that approach. It saddens me to say that NSC is not the community it once was. We have become divided, angry, and increasingly isolated, as highlighted by @Zeus. Perhaps this is reflective of society in general, especially online.

To those who are asking the mods to "step up": I hear you. The NSC mod team is quite hands-off in general, preferring to place trust in the members to shape their own community. I am currently in discussion with the other mods to decide what action should be taken, if any.

 

[ferret]

First of all, I want to thank those (it is still unknown who exactly due to the lack of a scoreboard) who voted for the NBS & Kid Kapichi! Such a long series of finals forces us to be more experimental, and increasingly to walk on the edge at the risk of our comfort... But so far all the experiments have found their audience and we are very proud of it. Thank you very much everyone!

Thank you to the host team for hosting! Any work deserves respect. But this is just a competition for recreation and it is very sad when the opposite effect is achieved... To some extent, hosts should also try to ensure the mood, no matter how difficult it may be. Believe the ferret that sometimes it can be very difficult!

And one last thing. There is a difference between those who came to vote, albeit a little late, and those who simply forgot or did not come for some reason. I really hope that this fact will be taken into account when making the final verdict. @Buranovskiy, don't be upset. eurofo.eu was supposed to strengthen your will and perseverance in any situation. All your victories are yet to come!

 

[theCONWEL]

What a mess on the one hand, it feels great to get such an amazing result after such a streak of flops, but on the other hand winning in this way is uncomfortable. Thanks for all the votes and everything but yeah I don’t really know what to say.

votes:

Sakuralia
Yeto-ya-Yeto
Xhuxhmaxhuxh
Griffin Empire
Xochimilia
Konthena
Fierraria
Moisantia
Fervorosia
Insomnéa

I’m performing in a musical next week and in Malmö the week after that so I won’t be able to host