No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2013
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lucian-crusher
Well-known member
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
The broadcasters can ask TVR how to do it their own way! Make a NF but arrange the winner to be whoever you want!
I like NFs and I wouldn't imagine a year without one for
. All the drama and scandals, love them!
The broadcasters can ask TVR how to do it their own way! Make a NF but arrange the winner to be whoever you want!
I like NFs and I wouldn't imagine a year without one for
. All the drama and scandals, love them! 
Grinch
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Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
She's right and it's a plus for me. Scandals will take Turks' attention for ESC much more :twisted: And why Turkey would ask her, was she born here or what?
She's right and it's a plus for me. Scandals will take Turks' attention for ESC much more :twisted: And why Turkey would ask her, was she born here or what?
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
It seems all the more unfair that this rule seems to be targetting the UK specifically. Prior to 2011 we have ALWAYS held NFs. It's not fair to make all the other countries suffer just because we decided to have an internal selection this year.
“The ESC only has a real future, if you ask me, if it is taken seriously on a musical level. It can become the biggest show in the world. But only if the respective countries, and also those, which are important for pop music, take the competition seriously. Included in that is, that it is not a single BBC editor who choses a band and a song.”
The best way for it to be taken seriously on a music level is if countries can choose their best artists as opposed to whoever the public take a fancy on the NF selection night. I don't see how it is the EBU's business how the individual broadcasters select their country's entrants, especially since they are the ones who have to pay for the privilage. There are some countries in the ESC who can't afford to host NFs and entrants chosen by the public are usually not as good as the internally selected because they are often less established artists with songs not fully backed by the music industry. Therefore I think this could damage the quality of music in ESC rather than improve it.
I doubt this rule will stick very long as I foresee too many countries complaining about it.
It seems all the more unfair that this rule seems to be targetting the UK specifically. Prior to 2011 we have ALWAYS held NFs. It's not fair to make all the other countries suffer just because we decided to have an internal selection this year.
“The ESC only has a real future, if you ask me, if it is taken seriously on a musical level. It can become the biggest show in the world. But only if the respective countries, and also those, which are important for pop music, take the competition seriously. Included in that is, that it is not a single BBC editor who choses a band and a song.”
The best way for it to be taken seriously on a music level is if countries can choose their best artists as opposed to whoever the public take a fancy on the NF selection night. I don't see how it is the EBU's business how the individual broadcasters select their country's entrants, especially since they are the ones who have to pay for the privilage. There are some countries in the ESC who can't afford to host NFs and entrants chosen by the public are usually not as good as the internally selected because they are often less established artists with songs not fully backed by the music industry. Therefore I think this could damage the quality of music in ESC rather than improve it.
I doubt this rule will stick very long as I foresee too many countries complaining about it.
Quent91
Well-known member
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
:twisted: :evil: THIS RULE IS A JOKE :evil: :twisted:
:twisted: :evil: THIS RULE IS A JOKE :evil: :twisted:
Mickey
Well-known member
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
Has anyone seen this news posted anywhere other than that one site?
This time last year, Russia were entering the big 4. Until I see this new rule confirmed by eurovision.tv or ESCtoday, I won't believe it.
Has anyone seen this news posted anywhere other than that one site?
This time last year, Russia were entering the big 4. Until I see this new rule confirmed by eurovision.tv or ESCtoday, I won't believe it.
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
I think the BBC have already slammed this rule and said it isn't happening. I hope they're right because us Brits might actually start sending in some decent entries like Jade Ewan and Blue, as long as we keep the British public out of the selection process.
I think the BBC have already slammed this rule and said it isn't happening. I hope they're right because us Brits might actually start sending in some decent entries like Jade Ewan and Blue, as long as we keep the British public out of the selection process.
Liam
Active member
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
Or maybe the UK can just make better NFs? Without Scooch in the NF - why were they even there btw? - Cyndi would've been sent. If the public had no crap to choose from, they couldn't and wouldn't choose crap
I think the BBC have already slammed this rule and said it isn't happening. I hope they're right because us Brits might actually start sending in some decent entries like Jade Ewan and Blue, as long as we keep the British public out of the selection process.
Or maybe the UK can just make better NFs?
Without Scooch in the NF - why were they even there btw? - Cyndi would've been sent. If the public had no crap to choose from, they couldn't and wouldn't choose crap 
doctormalisimo
Well-known member
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
That is a fantastic sentence. NFs aren't crap. The singers/songs in NFs are crap. If certain broadcasters (the Beeb and RTÉ come to mind) put more effort into their NFs and try to find actual talent, then those countries wouldn't be sending crap every year
If the public had no crap to choose from, they couldn't and wouldn't choose crap
That is a fantastic sentence. NFs aren't crap. The singers/songs in NFs are crap. If certain broadcasters (the Beeb and RTÉ come to mind) put more effort into their NFs and try to find actual talent, then those countries wouldn't be sending crap every year
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
A very apt point!
I do wonder why it is that the BBC allowed clearly bad entries into the NFs, not least because the British people tend to vote for them just for a laugh. I think it's the same for Ireland, or at least it was the case when they had Dustin the Chicken. The UK is a musical enough country to round up some proper talent and we can make the NFs run longer than one or two nights like we did when we selected Jade Ewan -- ALW made sure all the crap went before it even got to the NFs. Something which Pete Waterman failed to do. Result = Joe Whatshisname.
Yes, I think the BBC must take some blame for putting in some genuine junk into the past NFs that the British people can vote for in a fit of madness. However I think Internal Selection might be interesting to try for a couple of years - as long as ESC isn't stamping them out - to see whether the BBC do at least pick decent entries rather than leaving it to the mercy of the public. It's easier for us though 'cause the UK can afford long drawn out NFs.
Or maybe the UK can just make better NFs?
A very apt point!
I do wonder why it is that the BBC allowed clearly bad entries into the NFs, not least because the British people tend to vote for them just for a laugh. I think it's the same for Ireland, or at least it was the case when they had Dustin the Chicken. The UK is a musical enough country to round up some proper talent and we can make the NFs run longer than one or two nights like we did when we selected Jade Ewan -- ALW made sure all the crap went before it even got to the NFs. Something which Pete Waterman failed to do. Result = Joe Whatshisname.
Yes, I think the BBC must take some blame for putting in some genuine junk into the past NFs that the British people can vote for in a fit of madness. However I think Internal Selection might be interesting to try for a couple of years - as long as ESC isn't stamping them out - to see whether the BBC do at least pick decent entries rather than leaving it to the mercy of the public. It's easier for us though 'cause the UK can afford long drawn out NFs.
MyHeartIsYours
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- 24,545
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
I dont think it's fair to talk about Scooch like that. A lot of people just genuinely liked Scooch, as I did - I was like soooo happy when I realised it wasnt Cyndi but was Scooch - and really they deserved to do much better at Eurovision. Just because they finished 23rd doesnt mean that there is a problem with us.
With the future, I find MYMU style NF's to be a pretty boring format tbh, and as I've said loads it should be X Factor style starting in Autumn with Auditions, then Bootcamp, then Judge's Houses, etc. And then after New Year, the live shows start and last until March when we have our winner. It'd get uber amounts of viewers for the BBC and would increase Eurovision popularity here.
And then if this ridiculous rule about no internal selections comes true but we want a Celebrity entry, we could either keep the X Factor style every year but every other year have a special celebrity entrant in the final or we could have a NF with just the Celebrity act every two years and let them sing a few songs and see the most popular.
I dont think it's fair to talk about Scooch like that. A lot of people just genuinely liked Scooch, as I did - I was like soooo happy when I realised it wasnt Cyndi but was Scooch - and really they deserved to do much better at Eurovision. Just because they finished 23rd doesnt mean that there is a problem with us
.With the future, I find MYMU style NF's to be a pretty boring format tbh, and as I've said loads it should be X Factor style starting in Autumn with Auditions, then Bootcamp, then Judge's Houses, etc. And then after New Year, the live shows start and last until March when we have our winner. It'd get uber amounts of viewers for the BBC and would increase Eurovision popularity here.
And then if this ridiculous rule about no internal selections comes true but we want a Celebrity entry, we could either keep the X Factor style every year but every other year have a special celebrity entrant in the final or we could have a NF with just the Celebrity act every two years and let them sing a few songs and see the most popular.
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
Yeah, but a lot of people genuinely felt embarassed by them too - like me. It felt like they belonged on a Cheese Album rather than a true representation of what we listen to in the UK. The lyrics of their song haunt me to this day.
The only problem with that is that this is the BBC, not ITV. I don't think they'll want the X Factor on their backs for "stealing" their format. I suppose they could so something like Fame Academy. Another problem is that the BBC Autumn is filled up enough so it wouldn't get primetime slot on BBC One. Plus Autumn is the same time the Live shows start for the X Factor and if the BBC did do something like this, it would be to hammer the last nail into ITV's coffin as it were. By which I mean the BBC would want to have already started their live shows.
I definately see the appeal of your idea. I do think that the Beeb would want use it to try and steal ITV viewers, though. The X Factor is slowly going stale as the winners get the Christmas number one before disappearing into the wilderness. If 'Your Country Needs You' went this way then it should try to find its entry just before Christmas because a gap between then and March is a bit too big. So choose the entrant before New Years. Then it could kick off in March again with the winner's journey touring Europe and promotiong the song right up until the ESC.
It should be marketed as a great way to get an internation career launched. That might coax more proper record producers back into the mix.
We need to get our artists out there and known in Europe before the contest. The sooner we select our entry and get them ready, the sooner we can get them round to as many countries as possible performing our song.
But I do still thing it's quicker to just do an IS.
Nonetheless we should be grateful the UK has the resources to pull the rather elaborate idea I brought up. I can't see it being a yearly thing, but they might give something like it a go once. They'd have to get in early, though. The UK still haven't officially confirmed we are taking part yet.
Yeah, but a lot of people genuinely felt embarassed by them too - like me. It felt like they belonged on a Cheese Album rather than a true representation of what we listen to in the UK. The lyrics of their song haunt me to this day.
The only problem with that is that this is the BBC, not ITV. I don't think they'll want the X Factor on their backs for "stealing" their format. I suppose they could so something like Fame Academy. Another problem is that the BBC Autumn is filled up enough so it wouldn't get primetime slot on BBC One. Plus Autumn is the same time the Live shows start for the X Factor and if the BBC did do something like this, it would be to hammer the last nail into ITV's coffin as it were. By which I mean the BBC would want to have already started their live shows.
I definately see the appeal of your idea. I do think that the Beeb would want use it to try and steal ITV viewers, though. The X Factor is slowly going stale as the winners get the Christmas number one before disappearing into the wilderness. If 'Your Country Needs You' went this way then it should try to find its entry just before Christmas because a gap between then and March is a bit too big. So choose the entrant before New Years. Then it could kick off in March again with the winner's journey touring Europe and promotiong the song right up until the ESC.
It should be marketed as a great way to get an internation career launched. That might coax more proper record producers back into the mix.
We need to get our artists out there and known in Europe before the contest. The sooner we select our entry and get them ready, the sooner we can get them round to as many countries as possible performing our song.
But I do still thing it's quicker to just do an IS.
Nonetheless we should be grateful the UK has the resources to pull the rather elaborate idea I brought up. I can't see it being a yearly thing, but they might give something like it a go once. They'd have to get in early, though. The UK still haven't officially confirmed we are taking part yet.
Liam
Active member
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
Or maybe even like BRIT School for TV. Like, grouping aspiring songwriters, composers and singers work as a team to create the next entry. Each week the worst singer/songwriter/composer is eliminated. Like... for example:
Week 1-3 - Auditions
Week 4-10 - Live shows
Week 11 - Final
On each live week, the songwriters must write a song 3 minutes long, completely original, fitting to ESC rule conditions and fitting to a theme.
Week 1 - Party Songs
Week 2 - Ballads
Week 3 - Love songs
Week 4 - Fitting to a particular event
FINAL - Choosing the Eurovision entry (3 contestants perform 2 songs each)
You get the idea, and each week the contestants with the least votes is eliminated and it continues till the last one (best one) is standing, going to Eurovision with the song with the most votes. Maybe sounds complicated but the UK has huuuge undiscovered talent that'd do anything for their big break. Genuine talent
I dont think it's fair to talk about Scooch like that. A lot of people just genuinely liked Scooch, as I did - I was like soooo happy when I realised it wasnt Cyndi but was Scooch - and really they deserved to do much better at Eurovision. Just because they finished 23rd doesnt mean that there is a problem with us
With the future, I find MYMU style NF's to be a pretty boring format tbh, and as I've said loads it should be X Factor style starting in Autumn with Auditions, then Bootcamp, then Judge's Houses, etc. And then after New Year, the live shows start and last until March when we have our winner. It'd get uber amounts of viewers for the BBC and would increase Eurovision popularity here.
And then if this ridiculous rule about no internal selections comes true but we want a Celebrity entry, we could either keep the X Factor style every year but every other year have a special celebrity entrant in the final or we could have a NF with just the Celebrity act every two years and let them sing a few songs and see the most popular.
Or maybe even like BRIT School for TV. Like, grouping aspiring songwriters, composers and singers work as a team to create the next entry. Each week the worst singer/songwriter/composer is eliminated. Like... for example:
Week 1-3 - Auditions
Week 4-10 - Live shows
Week 11 - Final
On each live week, the songwriters must write a song 3 minutes long, completely original, fitting to ESC rule conditions and fitting to a theme.
Week 1 - Party Songs
Week 2 - Ballads
Week 3 - Love songs
Week 4 - Fitting to a particular event
FINAL - Choosing the Eurovision entry (3 contestants perform 2 songs each)
You get the idea, and each week the contestants with the least votes is eliminated and it continues till the last one (best one) is standing, going to Eurovision with the song with the most votes. Maybe sounds complicated but the UK has huuuge undiscovered talent that'd do anything for their big break. Genuine talent
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
You can say that again. We're a very musical country and ESC need to be sold again as a 'Big Break' to new artists as opposed to a fast tract to the end of a career. However I think it will take a few established artists more to get the proper music industry to do business with the BBC to write ESC songs again. However if there is a rule scrapping internal selection either we try and find at least two established artists willing to go in, or we do what we've been discussing and make it like a Fame Academy Meets X Factor thing. Even though its clear the person who spoke about this rule was targetting us - which isn't fair on other countries who have always selected internally - we are one of those countries who could not only pull off one of the biggest NFs in Europe but could actually get our population to actively vote in it. That'll make the BBC tones of money and could go towards promo for our entry in Europe.
Still, it is an unfair rule and I do hope it is true that it was just an idea and not actually being implemented.
Maybe sounds complicated but the UK has huuuge undiscovered talent that'd do anything for their big break. Genuine talent
You can say that again. We're a very musical country and ESC need to be sold again as a 'Big Break' to new artists as opposed to a fast tract to the end of a career. However I think it will take a few established artists more to get the proper music industry to do business with the BBC to write ESC songs again. However if there is a rule scrapping internal selection either we try and find at least two established artists willing to go in, or we do what we've been discussing and make it like a Fame Academy Meets X Factor thing. Even though its clear the person who spoke about this rule was targetting us - which isn't fair on other countries who have always selected internally - we are one of those countries who could not only pull off one of the biggest NFs in Europe but could actually get our population to actively vote in it. That'll make the BBC tones of money and could go towards promo for our entry in Europe.
Still, it is an unfair rule and I do hope it is true that it was just an idea and not actually being implemented.
Liam
Active member
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
I think it is a fair rule - the public should have a say, and as great as Jade did I never agreed it was right what the BBC did. We just need to encourage countries like the UK, Turkey etc. to have better NFs.
I think it is a fair rule - the public should have a say, and as great as Jade did I never agreed it was right what the BBC did. We just need to encourage countries like the UK, Turkey etc. to have better NFs.
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
How do you mean? Jade Ewan was selected through a NF and that was by far the BEST NF the UK has ever thrown. So I don't understand what you mean by "I never agreed it was right what the BBC did."
Countries like the UK can afford to really fuel a lot of money and time into a NF, some other countries don't. Therefore it could limit participation in the contest. But I think the most important point is that it shouldn't be the EBU's business how each country picks their entry.
How do you mean? Jade Ewan was selected through a NF and that was by far the BEST NF the UK has ever thrown. So I don't understand what you mean by "I never agreed it was right what the BBC did."
Countries like the UK can afford to really fuel a lot of money and time into a NF, some other countries don't. Therefore it could limit participation in the contest. But I think the most important point is that it shouldn't be the EBU's business how each country picks their entry.
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
I'll repeat this again. As heard from the man who was responsible for production in Dusseldorf... certain broadcasters just planned to ask about this the EBU. And they hoped for their idea to be accepted by others.
Unprofessional ESC "tabloids" aka "certain" sites announced about it as something which has already happened.
@Grinch. Jamala's sister married a Turk, her niece lives there, her songs are played there (not so much of course) + as Crimean tatar she's a regular guest of Crimean tatars gatherings in Istanbul (those who immigrated to Turkey). Hmmm, still I doubt that Turkey lacks really gr8 native performers to the point where TRT is going to ask someone else... blah blah blah.
I'll repeat this again. As heard from the man who was responsible for production in Dusseldorf... certain broadcasters just planned to ask about this the EBU. And they hoped for their idea to be accepted by others.
Unprofessional ESC "tabloids" aka "certain" sites
announced about it as something which has already happened.@Grinch. Jamala's sister married a Turk, her niece lives there, her songs are played there (not so much of course) + as Crimean tatar she's a regular guest of Crimean tatars gatherings in Istanbul (those who immigrated to Turkey). Hmmm, still I doubt that Turkey lacks really gr8 native performers to the point where TRT is going to ask someone else... blah blah blah.
Liam
Active member
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
I mean, the public chose the singer but not the song A nice voice is a nice voice, but the song could be ********************. In 2009, it wasn't luckily, but 2010...
I mean, the public chose the singer but not the song
A nice voice is a nice voice, but the song could be ********************. In 2009, it wasn't luckily, but 2010...Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
That's because in 2009 Andrew Lloyd Webber wrote the song. In 2010 we had that idiot Pete Waterman, who frankly thinks far too much of himself. I agree that the song should be chosen as well along with the singer. Frankly I don't mind as long as entries like Scooch are stopped from going in again. NFs really need to up the standard if they become compulsory.
I mean, the public chose the singer but not the song
That's because in 2009 Andrew Lloyd Webber wrote the song. In 2010 we had that idiot Pete Waterman, who frankly thinks far too much of himself. I agree that the song should be chosen as well along with the singer. Frankly I don't mind as long as entries like Scooch are stopped from going in again. NFs really need to up the standard if they become compulsory.
Liam
Active member
Re: No internal selections allowed starting from ESC 2012?
I wouldn't mind what Germany did. They chose the singer and the song in 2010
I wouldn't mind what Germany did. They chose the singer and the song in 2010