Kosovo on Eurovision

[agent]

Since Kosovo is still no EBU member no Eurovision is possible for now, but (yes there is a but) Kosovo was 1 on Eurovision young dancer and Kosovo vote on Eurovision 1986

 

[Hele.]

Unnecessary discussion that usually results with fights and unnecessary fight discussion. It was discussed for zillion times already and conclusion is always the same - potential participation of Kosovo can be discussed only (and ONLY) when it gets accepted into EBU. So far it is and will remain impossible until (and if ever) EBU accepts Kosovo's request to join EBU. So far, EBU has rejected it few times already and last one wasn't so long time ago: http://wiwibloggs.com/2015/06/03/ebu-denies-china-or-kosovo-debut-at-2016-song-contest/97374/. Kosovo obviously wants to participate but it is up to EBU to decide and EBU rejected Kosovo's requests few times already so it is obviously EBU doesn't want Kosovo to participate...yet.
As I posted statements from EBU - it is "no" and until it changes Kosovo will not be part of eurovision (obviously not in sooner time). If ever (and when) EBU changes its opinion, we again could discuss potential participation of Kosovo. So far, answer is no and it will remain like that for now.

So, as situation is clear and this discussion usually results with a lot of fights I suggest admins to close the thread. [MENTION=4364]Matt[/MENTION] [MENTION=4374]Jukica[/MENTION].

 

[agent]

Kosovo will sing on Eurovision, sooner or later

 

[Gera11]

Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Cyprus, Georgia, Greece, Israel, Lebanon, Moldova, Morocco, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Spain and Ukraine are all EBU members that don't recognize the independence of Kosovo.

However, Kosovo has been recognised as an independent state by 108 out of 193 United Nations member states. So, tehnically EBU can accept them any time. The problem is that most probably all the countries mentioned above might withdraw, especially Serbia.

There is no surprise that EBU follows the guidelines of Western Europe and the EU, but they are treading carefully for now.

 

[EscGeek]

Juli1,is that you?

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

I'm afraid I just can't agree with denying a country the right to be treated just as every other country is.

What right do Serbia, Russia, Spain have to say that the people in Kosovo shouldn't be treated as every other country is, including participating in international events like Eurovision? I objected to Scotland's participation because it is a nation within a country (a position endorsed by the people of Scotland), and I don't believe subnational entities should participate. If the people of Scotland had endorsed independence, then I would have supported their separate participation in Eurovision.

I think the same should apply to others, Kosovo has clearly endorsed independence from Serbia, and they are an independent state in every way. Therefore they should participate.

 

[aardvark]

I think the same should apply to others, Kosovo has clearly endorsed independence from Serbia, and they are an independent state in every way. Therefore they should participate.

While I agree in my personal opinion that Kosovo should, and probably will join Eurovision in the distant future, the fact is that Serbia did not consent to Kosovo's declaration of independence, in other words it was Unilateral Declaration of Independence. By international law, all previous cases of UDI that happened before Kosovo were not recognised, as the parent country always has to give consent for declaration of independence due to international laws regarding integrity of states.

This cannot be compared to Scotland, as Scottish secession would be with consent of the UK. Rather think of the situation when Rhodesia declared UDI and this was condemned by the UK and the rest of the world, leading to non-recognition of Ian Smith's government and international sanctions.

The situation in Kosovo is slightly different, though, due to some (mostly Western) countries' decision to break with International law and custom, due to some political circumstances, which I'm not going into now, and subsequent partial recognition of Kosovo.

The fact is that Kosovo will have to become a member of the ITU before they can join the EBU and participate in Eurovision. In order to do so they will have to come a member of the UN first, and under current circumstances this will forever be vetoed by Russia and China in the security council of the UN. Therefore, a negotiated settlement on the final position of Kosovo, with the consent of Serbia, and by extension Russia, is the only way forward to full international recognition of Kosovo and participation in Eurovision following that.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Kosovo deserves a place in Eurovision imo, but I just worry that it could end in diplomatic chaos. EU needs to intervene to help Serbia & Kosovo find it's independence before it can participate.

 

[Gera11]

By international law, all previous cases of UDI that happened before Kosovo were not recognised, as the parent country always has to give consent for declaration of independence due to international laws regarding integrity of states.

This. You sir won this thread.
PS: are you studying law?

 

[aardvark]

Switzeralnd become UN member around 10 years ago! SUI is on Eurovision from 1956

Yes, but all other countries agree that Switzerland is an independent country, hence there was no contestation. With Kosovo almost half of the world says it is not an independent country, and until everybody agrees, it really is not. It is a stupid way of doing things, but that is the way it works.

 

[aardvark]

This. You sir won this thread.
PS: are you studying law?

No, but I have read a lot about the situation in Kosovo, and other partially recognised and unrecognised countries, and what it would take for them to become real countries.

 

[Carrie]

Yes, that is all true. It may not be fair to the people of Kosovo, but that's the way it works.

Say that to ::na

Truthfully, law only holds meaning for as long as people want it to. The same applies to rules.

 

[Milos-BC]

This topic is totally pointless. As it was said already, it will probably never happen, especially not in a near future, so people just have to accept that Kosovo is taking part as a part of Serbia.

The thread opener obviously wants to provoke a bit, but good thing is that we are falling on those tricks anymore.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

By international law, all previous cases of UDI that happened before Kosovo were not recognised.

Really? Go tell that to the United States or Israel Both became independent of the United Kingdom after a UDI.

Or if you want something a bit closer to Kosovo, Croatia and Slovenia both became independent in 1991 after UDI, and both were and are recognised by the international community.

And in 2010, the International Court of Justice ruled that UDI's are acceptable in international law.

 

[agent]

This topic is totally pointless. As it was said already, it will probably never happen, especially not in a near future, so people just have to accept that Kosovo is taking part as a part of Serbia.

The thread opener obviously wants to provoke a bit, but good thing is that we are falling on those tricks anymore.

Kosovo is independet by 108 countrys in the world + EX YU countries (No Bosnia)

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Croatia participated at Eurovision for 2 years before it was recognised as independent by Yugoslavia. If Croatia can have something, why can't Kosovo?

Kosovo has participated in Eurovision Young Dancers alongside Serbia. And if you look at other international events, Kosovo is going to participate in the Olympics for the first time this year, and Serbia will be there. China and Taiwan participate in the Olympics together, and so on.

If Kosovo wants to join Eurovision Song Contest, there is no way they could be prevented from doing so.

 

[Milos-BC]

Kosovo is not a country, deal with it. And comparing Croatia to Kosovo is like comparing Norway to South Ossetia. Indeed, some anti-Serbian lobbies have been successful and we were seeing them in some international events, but that still doesn't change the fact.


Eurovision is the subject here, and the fact is that you will not see Kosovo there, just like you will not see it in organizations like UNESCO, so this topic is totally pointless and if other mods agree, I will lock it because it has no productive nature, it is made to spread anti-Serbian propaganda, and that is something that will simply not be allowed.


As for you agent, I can say it was a good effort to stir up the pots, but you will have to find something else I'm afraid.

 

[Gabe]

As far as I can see, the only efforts to stir anything up in this thread are your own. It is a personally reasonable (although theoretical) discussion to have. I really hate the idea that everything is somehow propelled by 'anti-Serbian lobbies and propaganda' and that sounds like conspiracy to me.

As for my opinion: For now I think Kosovo shouldn't participate. Not only is it not part of the EBU, it is a political minefield to introduce a partially recognised state into the contest. Once it gains full recognition (and I believe this will eventually happen), then it would be welcomed

 

[agent]

Croatia participated at Eurovision for 2 years before it was recognised as independent by Yugoslavia. If Croatia can have something, why can't Kosovo?

Croatia 1st participate 1993, altough the first time was in 1963

Yugoslavia - 01.12.1918 - 18.04.1941; 29.11.1945 - 08.10.1991

From 8.10.1991 Yugoslavia is not exsit.

Yugoslavia 1994 and Yugoslavia 1990 is not same country!!!!

 

[agent]

YUG history - Singers and songs:

1961: Slovenia
1962: Slovenia
1963: Croatia
1964: Bosnia
1965: Bosnia
1966: Slovenia
1967: Slovenia
1968: Croatia
1969: Croatia
1970: Slovenia
1971: Croatia
1972: Croatia
1973: Bosnia
1974: Serbia
1975: Slovenia
1976: Bosnia
1981: Bosnia
1982: Serbia
1983: Croatia
1984: Montenegro
1985: Croatia - Withdraw from the contest, winner song was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZpWVaIXmGE
1986: Croatia
1987: Croatia
1987: Croatia
1988: Croatia
1989: Croatia
1990: Croatia
1991: Serbia (fake voting; the real winner was Croatia with this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBuh2hbEiNY
1992: Serbia

1990 TVZG host the Eurovision, JRT and Serbia didnt gave Croatia 1 euro for Eurovision. Germany help with money