Kazakhstan KAZAKHSTAN 2023 - not taking part

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[Ezio]

Dont care its the right thing to do we need less authoritarian dodgy places in eurovision not more, azerbajian should be out too

Azerbegone

 

[MopManMoss]

Yeah, keep these problematic countries away

Austria is removed from the Eurovision song contest for its associations with ESCUnited user Ezio

 

[SpiritofKeiino]

I'm not too bothered about them joining, I don't really care either way. I would rather see some dormant countries such as Hungary and Turkey re-entering.

 

[hijirio]

Please find the world map of time zones for your further consideration. You are very welcome.

https://www.maptrove.com/pub/media/catalog/product/t/i/time-zone-wall-map-of-the-world-large.jpg

Well thanks for saving me the burden by debunking your own post.
You said KZ is 6 hours ahead of CET and 7 hours ahead of GMT, as you can see in the map, Kazakhstan is 6 hours ahead of GMT and as we are in summer time the difference between CET and GMT is two hours, not one. So when it's 21:00 CET, it's 01:00 in Kazakhstan.
Geography 101, hello.

Azerbegone

Azerbyejan works better if you ask me.

 

[hijirio]

Dont care its the right thing to do we need less authoritarian dodgy places in eurovision not more, azerbajian should be out too

This is not the politics thread so I will refrain from getting too deep into this but we forgot this 2015 headline of the Guardian way too soon I guess: "Welcome to Ukraine, the most corrupt nation in Europe."
So are Moldova, Albania, Serbia, Armenia.
But I think Eurovision contributed greatly to bringing Western values to these countries. So why shouldn't Kazakhstan also benefit from it?

Also, Malta is officially confirmed to have cheated in 2021 and San Marino in 2022. So corruption is definitely not Eastern Europe specific.
And gotta say producer-decided running order is the most corrupt thing in the history of the contest.

 

[MopManMoss]

This is not the politics thread so I will refrain from getting too deep into this but we forgot this 2015 headline of the Guardian way too soon I guess: "Welcome to Ukraine, the most corrupt nation in Europe."
So are Moldova, Albania, Serbia, Armenia.
But I think Eurovision contributed greatly to bringing Western values to these countries. So why shouldn't Kazakhstan also benefit from it?

Also, Malta is officially confirmed to have cheated in 2021 and San Marino in 2022. So corruption is definitely not Eastern Europe specific.
And gotta say producer-decided running order is the most corrupt thing in the history of the contest.

Ukraine is the most corrupt nation in Europe after Russia though but they’re clearly no authoritarian and want to be a western democratic nation and their people clearly don’t want the corruption to continue hence zelenskys election just look at servant of the peoples platform pre war, Kazakhstan very very recently had a president who renamed the capital city after himself does that sound like the behaviour of a country that should be in Eurovision no no it doesn’t

 

[hijirio]

Ukraine is the most corrupt nation in Europe after Russia though but they’re clearly no authoritarian and want to be a western democratic nation and their people clearly don’t want the corruption to continue hence zelenskys election just look at servant of the peoples platform pre war, Kazakhstan very very recently had a president who renamed the capital city after himself does that sound like the behaviour of a country that should be in Eurovision no no it doesn’t

Yeah and very very recently they had a government that found that decision stupid and reverted it.
It's obviously not a democratic heaven, but I think instead of alienating them, we can actually let them in and thus they will familarize themselves with Europe and integrate better. Cuz they actually want to join the family, they make great efforts for it. Why fence off somebody who actually wants to join you and learn from you, and also teach you what they are better at? It will be a win-win situation after all.

 

[simori95]

Wow that‘s an unexpected discussion with a lot of interesting points.

I would be a bit careful about saying the ESC could help bring „western values“ etc. to Kazakhstan. I know what was meant, just the wording isn’t optimal. I get the Point though, I just wonder if it really is the case. It may give exposure to certain topics, but that might in the worst case possibly also alienate further (No I don’t mean this as a reason not to invite Kazakhstan, just food for thought in general).

I believe there are arguments made for both sides, but as it stands it is indeed hypocritical if some countries with the same problems are allowed in and Kazakhstan isn’t. Personally, I really don‘t want to decide if I preferred e.g. Azerbaijan being ejected or Kazakhstan joining, but you can’t really have one but not the other.

 

[MopManMoss]

Yeah and very very recently they had a government that found that decision stupid and reverted it.
It's obviously not a democratic heaven, but I think instead of alienating them, we can actually let them in and thus they will familarize themselves with Europe and integrate better. Cuz they actually want to join the family, they make great efforts for it. Why fence off somebody who actually wants to join you and learn from you, and also teach you what they are better at? It will be a win-win situation after all.

Integrate better? Why do they need to intergrate with Europe they are a central Asian country

 

[empo21]

And gotta say producer-decided running order is the most corrupt thing in the history of the contest.

Louder sis

Especially in 100% televote semis

 

[hijirio]

I would be a bit careful about saying the ESC could help bring „western values“ etc. to Kazakhstan.

Well of course I know it's a problematic and post-colonialist statement, to get my point across I had to accord myself to the atmosphere of the discussion where being European is associated with being White and Western.

Integrate better? Why do they need to intergrate with Europe they are a central Asian country

Well, Israel is a Middle Eastern country.

Any justification for Israel's participation can be applied for Kazakhstan as well.

 

[Ezio]

Hirijo was busily debunking my time zone claim, as if watching Eurovision from 1 am to 4.30 am is any better.

Who should pay for Kazakhstan, an authoritarian, corrupt country with a viewership in single digits? Their TV station or the do-gooders of free Europe, a.k.a. us?

Israel is the birthplace of our culture, faith and civilization. They share Western values despite having a small dick but still democratic government. We can live happily and gay there if we want to. Israel at ESC should never be scrutinized. We all know they would be doomed at Middle East SC.

 

[FilipFromSweden]

Louder sis

Especially in 100% televote semis

Nah, it made no sense for 2011 to open with a ballad and then have like 5 intense pop songs in a row. Eurovision fans just hate change and quality I guess

 

[hijirio]

Hirijo was busily debunking my time zone claim, as if watching Eurovision from 1 am to 4.30 am is any better.

Who should pay for Kazakhstan, an authoritarian, corrupt country with a viewership in single digits? Their TV station or the do-gooders of free Europe, a.k.a. us?

Well, with this logic goodbye to Malta, Montenegro, Slovenia, Albania, San Marino, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania I guess. Even Iceland, I mean the whole population watches the show but it's still less than 500 thousand lmao.
Kazakhstan's population is higher than 50% of participating countries, so the potential is there and you are talking only based on assumptions. Well tbh I doubt that many Europeans would actually watch the contest unless their country is participating?

Also, having Eurovision at Saturday late night is much more viable than having it for Sunday morning (reference to your Australia example). Who wakes up early on a Sunday to watch a music show?

 

[Ezio]

Ukraine is the most corrupt nation in Europe after Russia though but they’re clearly no authoritarian and want to be a western democratic nation and their people clearly don’t want the corruption to continue hence zelenskys election just look at servant of the peoples platform pre war, Kazakhstan very very recently had a president who renamed the capital city after himself does that sound like the behaviour of a country that should be in Eurovision no no it doesn’t

Well, elections in Ukraine have been a coin toss often. Their Western politicians were also corrupt af, Timochenko f.e., and I doubt Zelenskyy is the least corrupt person ever. Ukraine is a Biden-proxy, they paid the crackhead Hunter Biden 80k a month and bury their sordid family secrets. Although Hunter is kinda hot. Yum! I would pay him more if I could. Zelenskyy went from slick business dude to bearded Robin Hood lookalike. That's drag! However, if they would vote pro-Russian again, the country could turn into another Belarus.

 

[Ezio]

Well, with this logic goodbye to Malta, Montenegro, Slovenia, Albania, San Marino, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania I guess. Even Iceland, I mean the whole population watches the show but it's still less than 500 thousand lmao.
Kazakhstan's population is higher than 50% of participating countries, so the potential is there and you are talking only based on assumptions. Well tbh I doubt that many Europeans would actually watch the contest unless their country is participating?

Also, having Eurovision at Saturday late night is much more viable than having it for Sunday morning (reference to your Australia example). Who wakes up early on a Sunday to watch a music show?

sLOVEnia? Gorl, bye!

No matter how small, their votes are repesentative!

And they pay for themselves! The assumption that Kazakhstan would pay for the participation in a show in the middle of the night, early morning is crazy. So we have to pay for a dubious country, right? Right!

What's in for the EBU and their Sponsors if Kazakhstan qualifies over Netherlands or Portugal?

What's in for Kazakhstan if they flop in the semi? 0 viewers in the GF and someone paid for them to participate.

This deal is fishy

 

[empo21]

Nah, it made no sense for 2011 to open with a ballad and then have like 5 intense pop songs in a row. Eurovision fans just hate change and quality I guess

And how is it better when odds favourites are given good spots and lesser entries are buried for the sake of a "good show". Looks like there's winner and losers on each side.

Change is good when done well. Production planned draw could be improved if bias killing factors are introduced.

 

[hijirio]

And how is it better when odds favourites are given good spots and lesser entries are buried for the sake of a "good show". Looks like there's winner and losers on each side.

Change is good when done well. Production planned draw could be improved if bias killing factors are introduced.

Exactly, like the producer deciding the order of entries from 4 quarters, instead of two halves.

 

[Ezio]

Esc 2011 was doomed from the get go and couldnt be saved by a producer draw..the songs were awful that year

 

[MopManMoss]

Well of course I know it's a problematic and post-colonialist statement, to get my point across I had to accord myself to the atmosphere of the discussion where being European is associated with being White and Western.



Well, Israel is a Middle Eastern country.

Any justification for Israel's participation can be applied for Kazakhstan as well.

You’ll never find me defending Israel’s participation, Australia too