Israel ISRAEL 2024 - Eden Golan - Hurricane

[ESC United Mod Team]

Please keep discussion in this thread specific to Eden Golan and her song, Israel's (potential) participation in Eurovision 2024 and discussions or remarks from other countries and organisations about Israel's participation.

Any further discussion of a political or humanitarian nature not relating to specifically Israel in Eurovision 2024 needs to go into the politics sub-forum. Thank you!​

 

[Gwendal]

I'm still surprised, regarding this year's drama, that people but mainly Eurofans do not get a very obvious point:
>>> TEMPORALITY.

– Let's talk about present situations with a clear political insight? Nope, for the EBU. And NOPE, it's not specific to Israel. You can be an oppressor like Belarus 2021 or an oppressed like Georgia 2009, if you inject your current political situation into your song, you'll get rejected.
– Let's talk about the past and historical situations? Yeah, generally, for the EBU. Can we all remind that Ukraine 2016 took time to get accepted, Armenia 2015 too? (and, in a way, Israel 2007 is into the same category) And, as a Frenchman, you can point that France 2015 wasn't that obviously accepted by the EBU as it clearly talks about war, but from a century ago.

I've just read a tweet from a famous French-Israeli journalist comparing Israel 2024 participation drama to what happened November 13th 2015 in France. Would have France been rejected in 2016 if we decided to send a song about Bataclan massacre? He thinks not... I think yes. And because no, we can NOT have double standards in Eurovision.

I don't think EBU expects Israel to send Unicorn 2.0 this year to accept their participation. But there's an infinity of shades between girl bops and politically-charged songs. If KAN doesn't get it, their fault.

 

[Biste]

How is that second song considered political based on the lyrics? At most it can just be seen as a song dedicated to the dead (past to present and future) and that is now considered political? Ridiculous.

The article does mention only the (supposed) chorus of the (supposedly) submitted second song. Perhaps the problem lies in the verses, which are (conveniently?) not shared at the moment.

All these half-assed articles and information leaks do not help in creating an informed opinion on anything happening surrounding this situation. But I guess that's the current propaganda culture we are living in, everybody trying to push their own narrative as the one and only truth...

 

[ag89]

I'm still surprised, regarding this year's drama, that people but mainly Eurofans do not get a very obvious point:
>>> TEMPORALITY.

– Let's talk about present situations with a clear political insight? Nope, for the EBU. And NOPE, it's not specific to Israel. You can be an oppressor like Belarus 2021 or an oppressed like Georgia 2009, if you inject your current political situation into your song, you'll get rejected.
– Let's talk about the past and historical situations? Yeah, generally, for the EBU. Can we all remind that Ukraine 2016 took time to get accepted, Armenia 2015 too? (and, in a way, Israel 2007 is into the same category) And, as a Frenchman, you can point that France 2015 wasn't that obviously accepted by the EBU as it clearly talks about war, but from a century ago.

I've just read a tweet from a famous French-Israeli journalist comparing Israel 2024 participation drama to what happened November 13th 2015 in France. Would have France been rejected in 2016 if we decided to send a song about Bataclan massacre? He thinks not... I think yes. And because no, we can NOT have double standards in Eurovision.

I don't think EBU expects Israel to send Unicorn 2.0 this year to accept their participation. But there's an infinity of shades between girl bops and politically-charged songs. If KAN doesn't get it, their fault.

Maybe to add here, the thing with all the cases you mentioned above (or probably majority of them) is there was a clear consensus who was on the right and who on the wrong side.

If, for example, Israel did not start military operations after the terrorist attack in October (and killed thousands of Palestinians) sending a song like October Rain would have been, probably, ok, because Israel would have been the only victim.

Nobody blamed France for the song in 2015 (I guess the song was about terrorist attacks in France that happened prior to ESC, but I am not quite sure - or even about WW1) because we had one side that was the victim - what Israel is trying to do with Eurovision this year is to wash the blood from their hands post-October attacks. And that is why lyrics like October Rain are problematic and actually very political- there is no sincerity behind it, but politics. The line is thin, but with some in-depth analysis it is easy make distinction.

Another example is Armenian entry in 2015 - many were angry when Armenia had to change the title of the song. But, Armenia crossed the line (another thin line) because the song was not created to serve as a memory or to remind us about the Armenian victims: the name of the song was a clear reference to today's Turkey and their politics. Turkey is the one that denies Armenian genocide and the song served only for that purpose.

Some will tell "Well, Ukraine had a song in 2016 about Tatars under Stalin". But, that song was not, at least, directly pointing the finger toward Russia, but towards USSR, the country that is no more. And again, there is a general consensus Stalin's policies were genocidal and against humanity. Almost a universal consensus - that is why 1944 lyrics were not problematic.

We can go on and on, but the point is each song (with some political connotations) should be observed individually. We have many comments "1944 vs October Rain", mostly by Israeli fans. Such comparisons are not only irrelevant and subjective, but also manipulative.

 

[han-g]

I'm still surprised, regarding this year's drama, that people but mainly Eurofans do not get a very obvious point:
>>> TEMPORALITY.

– Let's talk about present situations with a clear political insight? Nope, for the EBU. And NOPE, it's not specific to Israel. You can be an oppressor like Belarus 2021 or an oppressed like Georgia 2009, if you inject your current political situation into your song, you'll get rejected.
– Let's talk about the past and historical situations? Yeah, generally, for the EBU. Can we all remind that Ukraine 2016 took time to get accepted, Armenia 2015 too? (and, in a way, Israel 2007 is into the same category) And, as a Frenchman, you can point that France 2015 wasn't that obviously accepted by the EBU as it clearly talks about war, but from a century ago.

I've just read a tweet from a famous French-Israeli journalist comparing Israel 2024 participation drama to what happened November 13th 2015 in France. Would have France been rejected in 2016 if we decided to send a song about Bataclan massacre? He thinks not... I think yes. And because no, we can NOT have double standards in Eurovision.

I don't think EBU expects Israel to send Unicorn 2.0 this year to accept their participation. But there's an infinity of shades between girl bops and politically-charged songs. If KAN doesn't get it, their fault.

Bosnia 1993 was able to inject their present situation into their eurovision song.

 

[Sammy]

At this point it feels like Israel could send any song - even in an imaginary language - and still there would be people finding something „political“ about it…

 

[han-g]

At this point it feels like Israel could send any song - even in an imaginary language - and still there would be people finding something „political“ about it…

Well they have yet to try a song that has nothing to do with 7th October, so it's not possible to declare that there is nothing they can send already.

 

[Sammy]

Well they have yet to try a song that has nothing to do with 7th October, so it's not possible to declare that there is nothing they can send already.

well - that’s my point. at this stage you will
find always people who find some comnection with the 7th october no matter how far fetched that may be. If you take the lyrics of their second proposed song and let it be representing any other country - nobody would habe the slightest issue with the lyrics.

 

[Gwendal]

Nobody blamed France for the song in 2015 (I guess the song was about terrorist attacks in France that happened prior to ESC, but I am not quite sure - or even about WW1) because we had one side that was the victim

It was about WW1 indeed. Terrorist attacks were several months after Lisa Angell's performance.

 

[Gwendal]

Bosnia 1993 was able to inject their present situation into their eurovision song.

Not wrong, that's why I focused on the twenty last years, as rules have changed a lot from nineties. But as @ag89 pointed, it was also a one-sided situation where Bosnia was clearly the victim.

 

[han-g]

well - that’s my point. at this stage you will
find always people who find some comnection with the 7th october no matter how far fetched that may be. If you take the lyrics of their second proposed song and let it be representing any other country - nobody would habe the slightest issue with the lyrics.

I doubt "I'm" could be connected to 7th October or "golden boy" or "toy" or "feker libi"

 

[Sammy]

I doubt "I'm" could be connected to 7th October or "golden boy" or "toy" or "feker libi"

Just for the "fun" of it (and I'm NOT behind that interpretation):

"I M": there is this line "you are mine" - that refers to Israeli wishes to get back total control over Gaza and possibly the westbank
"Golden boy": Mamma (speaking of Israel), someone broke my heart tonight (speaking of the attacks), now I'm gonna ease my pain (taking revenge) dancing on the floor (a metaphor for the war in Gaza)
"Feker Libi": Tonight ist our story (e.g. our victory in reach), we celebrate the glory (of taking revenge), we have no shame (we're in the right of what we doing in Gaza)
Toy: I'm not your toy (speaking to Hamas: don't mess with me) You stupid boy (again Hamas) I'll take you down now (i'll defeat you), make you watch me Dancing with my dolls (a metaphor for the missiles)

Again - I would never do an interpretation like that myself but if you want to do it - that's feasible. It's illogical, it's false, it's completely out of place, it's not what the spirit of the song is. BUT: I assure you that's how far fetched some people at this stage of the discussion go in interpreting.

 

[ag89]

Bosnia 1993 was able to inject their present situation into their eurovision song.

True. But it also had a massive public support and international courts clearly identified the victim and the oppressor.
In that sense Bosnia coming with a song that clearly had some political background ("All the pain of the world tonight is in Bosnia") did not cause any issue.
But beside this, the rules and the way how EBU handles things have changed since the 90's. Also, political landscape today is completely different - that's why every song with political messages must be approached individually.

 

[HarryUK]

So both songs have now been rejected?? Jesus

 

[SirPeterGriffin]

What is the apolitical EBU waiting for to disqualify them? On-the-nose propaganda tool to whitewash their ghoulish crimes and they still provoking on purpose after being warned...the double standards are gross.

 

[Romeo]

If the EBU are going to reject every song from Israel on 'political grounds' then "wild west" shouldn't be allowed to represent Iceland!

If this EBU pathetic attempt to get Israel to withdraw so the EBU can save face and try and avoid disqualifying them then this blatant, one sided, terrorists sympathising, view isn't working because the world can see through it. Both (possible entries if we have the correct lyrics and information) have been deemed ineligible due to what people could possibly interpret... Then (as I previously mentioned) Bashir shouldn't be allowed to represent Iceland if he wins the Icelandic NF. That is a clear breach of the political rules. The lyrics clearly state the west is "wild" for supporting Israel's ability to defend itself from terrorists. The music video amplifies that 10 fold

 

[Ana Raquel]

terrorists sympathising

?

Maybe to add here, the thing with all the cases you mentioned above (or probably majority of them) is there was a clear consensus who was on the right and who on the wrong side.

If, for example, Israel did not start military operations after the terrorist attack in October (and killed thousands of Palestinians) sending a song like October Rain would have been, probably, ok, because Israel would have been the only victim.

Nobody blamed France for the song in 2015 (I guess the song was about terrorist attacks in France that happened prior to ESC, but I am not quite sure - or even about WW1) because we had one side that was the victim - what Israel is trying to do with Eurovision this year is to wash the blood from their hands post-October attacks. And that is why lyrics like October Rain are problematic and actually very political- there is no sincerity behind it, but politics. The line is thin, but with some in-depth analysis it is easy make distinction.

Another example is Armenian entry in 2015 - many were angry when Armenia had to change the title of the song. But, Armenia crossed the line (another thin line) because the song was not created to serve as a memory or to remind us about the Armenian victims: the name of the song was a clear reference to today's Turkey and their politics. Turkey is the one that denies Armenian genocide and the song served only for that purpose.

Some will tell "Well, Ukraine had a song in 2016 about Tatars under Stalin". But, that song was not, at least, directly pointing the finger toward Russia, but towards USSR, the country that is no more. And again, there is a general consensus Stalin's policies were genocidal and against humanity. Almost a universal consensus - that is why 1944 lyrics were not problematic.

We can go on and on, but the point is each song (with some political connotations) should be observed individually. We have many comments "1944 vs October Rain", mostly by Israeli fans. Such comparisons are not only irrelevant and subjective, but also manipulative.

Such a necessary post. Thank you.

Too bad this is a case where the answer to "who is the victim?" is still really polarizing so this is a debate with no end.

And tbh (probably controversial) but I wouldn't be okay even with the scenario you proposed because any portrayal of Israel as the victim in the conflict (that started in 1948) would be a way to romanticize genocide.

However if it was for example a song about grief from the loss and trauma caused by the Holocaust I would totally support it.

Also on that note 2009 did nothing wrong and should have been allowed.

 

[I bims]

The lyrics clearly state the west is "wild" for supporting Israel's ability to defend itself from terrorists.

Proof? Quote the line that clearly says that, I can't find one.

 

[Romeo]

Proof? Quote the line that clearly says that, I can't find one.

"Music has all been in de village, in de camp, in de city, it has been a way of expressing de Palestinians opinions"

That's literally the intro to the video.

 

[Romeo]

"My mind hiding
I don’t know what’s right
Take me to the right road
There’s no more time and I can’t go wrong
Breath in
I know that i’m strong
I brake all the chains
I’m on the edge now
Watch me fly away

Oh dance like an angel
Oh you will remember
That I will dance forever
I will dance again
Oh dance like an angel"

The Israeli lyrics.

 

[Romeo]

If the EBU ban Israel then I will ensure that my involvement in Malmö on the mersey (my idea) will be a huge flop. (Working with Liverpool city region). I'll ensure #BoycottEurovision is the theme!

Viva Israel!