Contact us

France FRANCE 2016 - Amir - J'ai cherché

How do you rate this entry?

  • 12

    108 39.4%
  • 10

    55 20.1%
  • 8

    37 13.5%
  • 7

    25 9.1%
  • 6

    20 7.3%
  • 5

    7 2.6%
  • 4

    7 2.6%
  • 3

    4 1.5%
  • 2

    4 1.5%
  • 1

    0 0.0%
  • 0

    7 2.6%

  • Total voters
    274

toinou03

Well-known member
Joined
October 26, 2011
Posts
5,831
Re: FRANCE 2016

Quotation from the interview about the entries received: "I’m very happy about some of the songs that are still on the run. And Yes there are a few pretty big names in the Top 10!"...

I wanna see the receipts :lol: I doubt any "true" big name would send a song tbh. Anyway, it seems like they carefully listen to the music rather than going for names.

Overall, we learn nothing new about what's going on, I get the feeling this is the same kind of interview we have every year: we feel motivated, we have changed everything, we are optimistic, we've finally understood what to send to the contest... But at the end of the day, they keep on sending acts that sound like no-hopers from the very beginning, so... :rolleyes:

And singing partly in English won't help us: Divine, Echo (You & I), Moustache... if the song is trash, we'll get another bottom place.

I hope they'll go for something fresh that's unusual coming from us, I don't mean avant-garde music, just a solid song that will not disappear among the other entries and that will make people vote for it.

I don't think there is big names either.
I knew by official sources some of the "big names" that lost to Amandine and Twin Twin, and all of them are way less famous than Amandine (that at least someone like my mum knows. The others, she doesn't know). I also forgot them for the most ! :lol:
 

tuorem

Veteran
Joined
January 17, 2012
Posts
9,588
Location
GN-z11
Re: FRANCE 2016

Hmm even in this second place in running order, I do think Lisa could have achieved a 15th place. Some songs above her either didn't deserve being in the final or received to many points in final IMO

I was pretty optimistic about our chances to enter the top 20 because of the overall good feedback from the press center + the shortening odds that were in our favor after Lisa's rehearsal. But as soon as I saw that 2nd place, I knew it was OVER. 2nd place is a already shitty starting position, but they also had to put Israel next :lol: I mean people forgot about our existence the second "Golden Boy" started :D Worst draw of the year along with Albania

And you know that as well as me, some countries will always avoid the bottom of the scoreboard because of friendly voting (Armenia, Lithuania, Romania come to my mind especially) while some others will underservedly flop hard despite having better songs. I think the bottom 5 (minus Poland) was unjustified imo, but we can't do anything but send better songs to be noticed.

The thing that I find truly shocking in the decided draw is that your entry has to liked first and foremost by a bunch of people working for the host broadcaster. If you're not liked, you're already kind of screwed by the starting position you get, while random draw was fair in this regard. In less than 3 editions, patterns are unfortunately already noticeable. The popularity of the country matters a lot too.

How on earth would someone find fair that Romania closed the semis twice in a row and gets the second-to-last position the year after, while Latvia got 1st, 2nd and then 9th position for instance? Why Scandinavian countries are always near breaks in the semis? Why France got the worst starting positions in the final in three years? THAT is scandalous to me.
 

GWTW1939

Active member
Joined
March 10, 2013
Posts
4,951
Location
United States
Re: FRANCE 2016

I was pretty optimistic about our chances to enter the top 20 because of the overall good feedback from the press center + the shortening odds that were in our favor after Lisa's rehearsal. But as soon as I saw that 2nd place, I knew it was OVER. 2nd place is a already shitty starting position, but they also had to put Israel next :lol: I mean people forgot about our existence the second "Golden Boy" started :D Worst draw of the year along with Albania

Sometimes the air slowly get let out of the balloon like the last 2 Norwegian entries. At the very beginning the balloon was fully blown but as time went by and ESC started the air was slowly let out. With France it was like a balloon that was deflated and started blowing up as ESC started only to be completely popped by a pin in the blink of an eye :lol:
 

theCONWEL

WorldVision Mod 🍁
Staff member
Joined
August 9, 2011
Posts
10,228
Location
Birmingham, UK
Re: FRANCE 2016

I seriously hope France can come up with something good for 2016. Their music scene really appeals to my taste and I listen to a lot of French music so it's such a shame that it's not reflected in ESC :(

Something like any of these would be awesome:

 

John1

Well-known member
Joined
November 1, 2015
Posts
7,866
Location
Brittany
Re: FRANCE 2016

I was pretty optimistic about our chances to enter the top 20 because of the overall good feedback from the press center + the shortening odds that were in our favor after Lisa's rehearsal. But as soon as I saw that 2nd place, I knew it was OVER. 2nd place is a already shitty starting position, but they also had to put Israel next :lol: I mean people forgot about our existence the second "Golden Boy" started :D Worst draw of the year along with Albania

And you know that as well as me, some countries will always avoid the bottom of the scoreboard because of friendly voting (Armenia, Lithuania, Romania come to my mind especially) while some others will underservedly flop hard despite having better songs. I think the bottom 5 (minus Poland) was unjustified imo, but we can't do anything but send better songs to be noticed.

The thing that I find truly shocking in the decided draw is that your entry has to liked first and foremost by a bunch of people working for the host broadcaster. If you're not liked, you're already kind of screwed by the starting position you get, while random draw was fair in this regard. In less than 3 editions, patterns are unfortunately already noticeable. The popularity of the country matters a lot too.

How on earth would someone find fair that Romania closed the semis twice in a row and gets the second-to-last position the year after, while Latvia got 1st, 2nd and then 9th position for instance? Why Scandinavian countries are always near breaks in the semis? Why France got the worst starting positions in the final in three years? THAT is scandalous to me.

Well... There are only the truth in your book's extract I'd say :lol:.

I always believed that was pretty unfair to undergo the decision of head of SVT/ÖRF's tv's directors... I hope they'll clear their minds and let the dices/balls deciding the best draw for France/Slovenia (its chances of victory were instantly dicreased by 10182829% when I saw that they'd open the show...)/C.Rep...

I wish they could either improve their way of deciding the countries' order/draw or just continue on this shitty way...

They're f****ing deaf/blind and they cannot ameliorate it ?
 

LalehForWD

Active member
Joined
March 21, 2012
Posts
7,788
Location
Sweden
Re: FRANCE 2016

I was pretty optimistic about our chances to enter the top 20 because of the overall good feedback from the press center + the shortening odds that were in our favor after Lisa's rehearsal. But as soon as I saw that 2nd place, I knew it was OVER. 2nd place is a already shitty starting position, but they also had to put Israel next :lol: I mean people forgot about our existence the second "Golden Boy" started :D Worst draw of the year along with Albania

And you know that as well as me, some countries will always avoid the bottom of the scoreboard because of friendly voting (Armenia, Lithuania, Romania come to my mind especially) while some others will underservedly flop hard despite having better songs. I think the bottom 5 (minus Poland) was unjustified imo, but we can't do anything but send better songs to be noticed.

The thing that I find truly shocking in the decided draw is that your entry has to liked first and foremost by a bunch of people working for the host broadcaster. If you're not liked, you're already kind of screwed by the starting position you get, while random draw was fair in this regard. In less than 3 editions, patterns are unfortunately already noticeable. The popularity of the country matters a lot too.

How on earth would someone find fair that Romania closed the semis twice in a row and gets the second-to-last position the year after, while Latvia got 1st, 2nd and then 9th position for instance? Why Scandinavian countries are always near breaks in the semis? Why France got the worst starting positions in the final in three years? THAT is scandalous to me.

It's not so much if you are liked or not, it's how the song fits in relation to the other contributions. The idea is to make a smooth song list and even if the producer hate your song, he will try to pair it as perfect as possible. I can't imagine a producer deliberately punish songs he dislikes to special killing spots whichever they are. :lol:
 

John1

Well-known member
Joined
November 1, 2015
Posts
7,866
Location
Brittany
Re: FRANCE 2016

It's not so much if you are liked or not, it's how the song fits in relation to the other contributions. The idea is to make a smooth song list and even if the producer hate your song, he will try to pair it as perfect as possible. I can't imagine a producer deliberately punish songs he dislikes to special killing spots whichever they are. :lol:

France and Israel perfectly matched together as you said in your former post then..
They're filled with the illness :lol:
 

LalehForWD

Active member
Joined
March 21, 2012
Posts
7,788
Location
Sweden
Re: FRANCE 2016

France and Israel perfectly matched together as you said in your former post then..
They're filled with the illness :lol:

There's a Swedish word "malplacé" (also "malplacerad" obviously one of our many loanwords from French), which means being at the wrong place. :D
 

toinou03

Well-known member
Joined
October 26, 2011
Posts
5,831
Re: FRANCE 2016

To end the conversation, if we came with better songs, we'd have better starting positions. It was clear we'd do bad, so being at any starting position would'nt mind. I can't see which other country would have given us any points... It didn't deserve that more...
 

John1

Well-known member
Joined
November 1, 2015
Posts
7,866
Location
Brittany
Re: FRANCE 2016

To end the conversation, if we came with better songs, we'd have better starting positions. It was clear we'd do bad, so being at any starting position would'nt mind. I can't see which other country would have given us any points... It didn't deserve that more...

I don't agree with you on this point.
When you saw our position in betting odds climbing and climbing after the first rehearsals in Vienna and the different kind press' opinions, you just cannot say that whatever our draw was, we'd fail in the grand final.
If we got a better place such as singing before UK would've increased our chances of being in the top 15 by 100%...
Too bad, that was Israel (nonetheless, Israel would've got the same place in the scoreboard ^^) !
 

tuorem

Veteran
Joined
January 17, 2012
Posts
9,588
Location
GN-z11
Re: FRANCE 2016

It's not so much if you are liked or not, it's how the song fits in relation to the other contributions. The idea is to make a smooth song list and even if the producer hate your song, he will try to pair it as perfect as possible. I can't imagine a producer deliberately punish songs he dislikes to special killing spots whichever they are. :lol:

I'd like you to be right about this but how does the producer decide a ballad from France will get the 2nd spot, while a ballad from Norway will get the 9th spot or a Cypriot one will get the 11th slot? When songs belong to the same category, there is no objective criterion left to spread them evenly in the draw.

Of course, someone has to perform second in the final, but giving that spot is imo not a sign that you're worth a lot compared with the other entries (in other words, you're just there to separate two better songs). Starting positions do have some influence on the impact an entry will have on the viewers, and if I'm wrong, I'll wait for a hot favourite to get that slot tbh.

And my reaction does not have anything to do with my country in particular, some countries are just less well considered than others in this regard imo.
 

John1

Well-known member
Joined
November 1, 2015
Posts
7,866
Location
Brittany
Re: FRANCE 2016

I'd like you to be right about this but how does the producer decide a ballad from France will get the 2nd spot, while a ballad from Norway will get the 9th spot or a Cypriot one will get the 11th slot? When songs belong to the same category, there is no objective criterion left to spread them evenly in the draw.

Of course, someone has to perform second in the final, but giving that spot is imo not a sign that you're worth a lot compared with the other entries (in other words, you're just there to separate two better songs). Starting positions do have some influence on the impact an entry will have on the viewers, and if I'm wrong, I'll wait for a hot favourite to get that slot tbh.

And my reaction does not have anything to do with my country in particular, some countries are just less well considered than others in this regard imo.

They lied to us when they told people that producers of the shows made their best to provide each country the best draw they could receive..
However, I don't think neither Slovenia nor France deserved its "cursed" spots because of the quality that they gave us during this awesome night. (=> I was taken aback by those performances except for Israel and Sweden)

So, they simply can't do their best to make the best draw which was ever done with the random selection.
But they did fail to succeed to achieve their goal, then why didn't they decide to cancel this procedure whom every fans of the ESC found UNFAIR ?!
 

LalehForWD

Active member
Joined
March 21, 2012
Posts
7,788
Location
Sweden
Re: FRANCE 2016

I'd like you to be right about this but how does the producer decide a ballad from France will get the 2nd spot, while a ballad from Norway will get the 9th spot or a Cypriot one will get the 11th slot? When songs belong to the same category, there is no objective criterion left to spread them evenly in the draw.

Of course, someone has to perform second in the final, but giving that spot is imo not a sign that you're worth a lot compared with the other entries (in other words, you're just there to separate two better songs). Starting positions do have some influence on the impact an entry will have on the viewers, and if I'm wrong, I'll wait for a hot favourite to get that slot tbh.

And my reaction does not have anything to do with my country in particular, some countries are just less well considered than others in this regard imo.

The question of the random draw of the running order will continue for years. Personally I was taken aback by the truly awful allegations against Christer Björkman and Sweden in general regarding this issue 2012-13. I guess I was and still am in a defensive position and it kind of overshadows the issue in itself. Basically my opinion is that it is understandable that a producer want full control of the flow of songs. It is the main aspect of the show and in the end will decide the quality and entertainment value of the program. The competition part isn't and has not ever been the most important part imo and I really think the discussion of "fair" rules is a bit silly considering the many influencing factors and the very nature of the contest.

Also, a random draw of the running order isn't necessarily more fair than a producer made list. You never see it sports for example. The only advantage is that a random draw will eliminate possibility of corruption in the perception that certain spots are more favourable/unfavourable than others. You got to ask who on earth would be willing to pay the amount of money needed to make a producer take the risk of being bribed just to alter the running order? And who is interested in bribing anything really in an event like Eurovision? If the producer allow himself/herself to be biased and deliberately sabotage a contribution due to for example favouritism or just personal preferences, he/she is obviously the wrong person in that position and it directly reflects the standard of the broadcasting company.

I think the poor French results in Eurovision 2015 is obvious (not saying the song was bad but as I said before a bit malplacé in many respects :D). In the case of Amandine and Twin Twin the results are much more surprising. Moustache even made it to the charts in many countries after the contest (I even commented it would enter the Swedish charts before it happened). The French contributions tends to be a bit anonymous, a fate shared with the other prequalifiers and there's the reason I think. France needs to be in the semi finals on equal terms along with the others.
 

John1

Well-known member
Joined
November 1, 2015
Posts
7,866
Location
Brittany
Re: FRANCE 2016

The question of the random draw of the running order will continue for years. Personally I was taken back by the truly awful allegations against Christer Björkman and Sweden in general regarding this issue 2012-13. I guess I was and still am in a defensive position and it kind of overshadows the issue in itself. Basically my opinion is that it is understandable that a producer want full control of the flow of songs. It is the main aspect of the show and in the end will decide the quality and entertainment value of the program. The competition part isn't and has not ever been the most important part imo and I really think the discussion of "fair" rules is a bit silly considering the many influencing factors and the very nature of the contest.

Also, a random draw of the running order isn't necessarily more fair than a producer made list. You never see it sports for example. The only advantage is that a random draw will eliminate possibility of corruption in the perception that certain spots are more favourable/unfavourable than others. You got to ask who on earth would be willing to pay the amount of money needed to make a producer take the risk of being bribed just to alter the running order? And who is interested in bribing anything really in an event like Eurovision? If the producer allow himself/herself to be biased and deliberately sabotage a contribution due to for example favouritism or just personal preferences, he/she is obviously the wrong person in that position and it directly reflects the standard of the broadcasting company.

I think the poor French results in Eurovision 2015 is obvious (not saying the song was bad but as I said before a bit malplacé in many respects :D). In the case of Amandine and Twin Twin the results are much more surprising. Moustache even made it to the charts in many countries after the contest (I even commented it would enter the Swedish charts before it happened). The French contributions tends to be a bit anonymous, a fate shared with the other prequalifiers and there's the reason I think. France needs to be in the semi finals on equal terms along with the others.

I don't agree with you on the point of 'Moustache' because everyone knew it would have drowned into the dephts of the scoreboard, then it's even not surprising to see France in 26th place to be honest.
=> However, I understand that France was robbed in 2013, despite the weakness of Amandine's song. Indeed it would've deserved a way better place such as a top 15 like Angunn deserved too..
 

GianlucaTomoe

Banned
Joined
September 11, 2015
Posts
2,708
Location
Birmingham, UK
Re: FRANCE 2016

"Moustache" is one of the worst ESC-songs ever.
 

Schlagerman1

Well-known member
Joined
October 1, 2009
Posts
11,194
Re: FRANCE 2016

Also, a random draw of the running order isn't necessarily more fair than a producer made list. You never see it sports for example.

That is not true, cause prior to many championships there is a random draw, to determine the order of matches. Of course it is better for Sweden in Euro 2016 to be up against Ireland in the first game, grabbing three (hopefully) easy points than be up against Belgium or Italy first, losing points and being stressed in the later stage of the group stage. Sure I can agree that a producer made list doesn't have to be more "fair" but the question remains, why the draw looks at it does? that question will SVT or any other broadcaster answer, which is the problem with not having the random draw.
 

tuorem

Veteran
Joined
January 17, 2012
Posts
9,588
Location
GN-z11
Re: FRANCE 2016

The question of the random draw of the running order will continue for years. Personally I was taken aback by the truly awful allegations against Christer Björkman and Sweden in general regarding this issue 2012-13. I guess I was and still am in a defensive position and it kind of overshadows the issue in itself. Basically my opinion is that it is understandable that a producer want full control of the flow of songs. It is the main aspect of the show and in the end will decide the quality and entertainment value of the program. The competition part isn't and has not ever been the most important part imo and I really think the discussion of "fair" rules is a bit silly considering the many influencing factors and the very nature of the contest.

Also, a random draw of the running order isn't necessarily more fair than a producer made list. You never see it sports for example. The only advantage is that a random draw will eliminate possibility of corruption in the perception that certain spots are more favourable/unfavourable than others. You got to ask who on earth would be willing to pay the amount of money needed to make a producer take the risk of being bribed just to alter the running order? And who is interested in bribing anything really in an event like Eurovision? If the producer allow himself/herself to be biased and deliberately sabotage a contribution due to for example favouritism or just personal preferences, he/she is obviously the wrong person in that position and it directly reflects the standard of the broadcasting company.

I think the poor French results in Eurovision 2015 is obvious (not saying the song was bad but as I said before a bit malplacé in many respects :D). In the case of Amandine and Twin Twin the results are much more surprising. Moustache even made it to the charts in many countries after the contest (I even commented it would enter the Swedish charts before it happened). The French contributions tends to be a bit anonymous, a fate shared with the other prequalifiers and there's the reason I think. France needs to be in the semi finals on equal terms along with the others.

I got your point. But in my humble opinion (I don't regard it as a general truth), some rules made for the sake of entertainment are unfortunately used to other less legit purposes as well. Even in Melodifestivalen, I've always found that rule unfair because only Björkman's faves get the good starting positions, but I could stand it since he's in charge of that show. However, applying this rule to Eurovision - that is an international event - sounded more fishy than necessary to me. To be honest, I think they did a pretty good job at mixing everyone so far, the lineups were smooth and pleasant to go through, but I just can't ignore the patterns. Some countries are expendable and some others aren't. It's totally safe to give a bad starting position to San Marino or Latvia in the semis, on the contrary, I highly doubt Russia or Sweden would get the same treatment. Producers seem to avoid messing with countries that are considered "popular" in the contest. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate any country, it's just that my feelings haven't been contradicted so far.

And somehow it kind of kills the "unpredictable-ness" of it all, why start with an uptempo/feel-good song and close a semi with a hot favourite most of the time? Had we had no random draw in 2012, no way we would have had "Euro Neuro" to open the first semi :lol:

There shouldn't be money involved necessarily, but from the moment when a bunch of people meet, listen to the entries and decide on a running order, there is a big part of subjectivity involved, that's what I criticize.

As for bribery, there is corruption in every single event that involves several countries, so I'd be surprised if Eurovision wasn't affected by it. For several countries, the contest is a big opportunity to showcase themselves (e.g. Azerbaijan), it's a fantastic advertisement, so I wouldn't consider it as an event with minor impact. Winning or getting a great final placing make people pay attention to you.

As for my country, I'm not biased, I'm aware our recent entries weren't that good, still who would have thought (even among us, fans) "L'Enfer et Moi" would have been the ultimate final opener or "N'oubliez Pas" would have been truly higlighted in 2nd place? :D "Moustache" was one of those songs I talked about in my previous post - it was there to separate alleged better contenders (Sanna and the Tolmachevy Sisters in that case). Performing after "Undo" was a death sentence anyway, the contrast was too huge with our silly act.

With Twin Twin, we got our worst result ever, and I'm truly delighted by that. Didn't even deserve 2 points tbh. :lol: I was fearing it would do a "Allez Ola Olé" kind of impact, thankfully not. :mrgreen: As a French person, that was particularly embarrassing.

But of course we need to step up our game, that's all I ask: get rid of our cheap no-hopers and start being bold. ;)
 

popavapeur

Well-known member
Joined
February 19, 2015
Posts
1,829
Location
Paris (France)
Re: FRANCE 2016

i just read some papers with the new head talking and he seems to be much aware of what eurovision is. He's not afraid to say "there are some artists we want to see but they don't like ESC" : well, we all know that but that's the first time they put words on it officially. Meanwhile, i'm still amazed with Nathalie André... I mean, she was the leader last year and she discovered that esc was a big show once on the field? C'mon, didn't you look at past contest on youtube or?

well, i'm not believing on a big surprise because we still have the french market problem (the same as the japan market problem) but i wanna see what will come out.
 
Top Bottom