EUROVISION 2025 - General Discussion thread

[ESC United Mod Team]

This thread is for any general Eurovision 2025 discussion not limited to or specifically about any country's national selections or song choices.

 

[gingerale]

Any idea what we can expect from the hosts & interval acts? I have no idea what type of humour or TV show standard Switzerland has.

Humor: Mild to none
TV Show Standard: Think Germany and reduce it by 30%

But I have a good feeling about our Eurovision. It seems that everyone involved is really eager to make an incredible edition. I hope they are not relying too much on hosts and Eurovision memorabilia. I hope they try to represent the whole country with great postcards and all four languages.

 

[Mainshow]

Usually, scripted Eurovision jokes are quite cringe anyway.

I'm just fed up with all the Grindr, "one girl in the audience"-type of jokes.
We get it - gay men love Eurovision - I just hope that Switzerland will be more original.

I wouldn't mind skipping scripted/forced jokes if they follow the same formula like in recent years.
Personally, I think that Liverpool 2022 has got the best hosts in this decade so far.
I really enjoyed Nikki in the interviews which got uploaded on the official Eurovision.tv channel before the semis - but she wasn't as brilliant as in these videos on the live shows.

 

[jatojo]

I really enjoyed Nikki in the interviews which got uploaded on the official Eurovision.tv channel before the semis - but she wasn't as brilliant as in these videos on the live shows.

Probably because of all the compromises that are made during a big show like that. "And it's fine with a joke here but we need to plan it accurately, and it can't take more than 20 seconds." I could hear producers say something like that. And that kills humor.

Having said that, Northern Europe is normally much better at this than Central and Southern Europe. Germany has improved though (the older German generation had basically no sense of humour which has to do with the lack of irony). I'm probably biased here.

 

[njdevils94]

Any idea what we can expect from the hosts & interval acts? I have no idea what type of humour or TV show standard Switzerland has.

Neutrality jokes of course

 

[goncalovieira]

We are having a very diverse year so far.

My top 7:

1. Albania
2. Belgium
3. Montenegro
4. Greece
5. Spain
6. Luxembourg
7. Slovenia

Nothing bad, tho. Next weekend, Ireland, Latvia and Finland should bring top tier songs to my top.

 

[aef]

Which country will save this year? I feel like this edition is going to be a disaster, do many weak/ irrelevant NFs and bad selected songs…

 

[NikolaiMoller]

Never happened before that I like/love 6 out of the first 7 songs with some epic bangers yet to compete!

ESC 2025 is gonna be one of the best

5/7 in native language as well

 

[Smudy]

So far, i love Albania and i like Belgium and Slovenia.

The rest is whatever.

 

[Mainshow]

Which country will save this year? I feel like this edition is going to be a disaster, do many weak/ irrelevant NFs and bad selected songs…

Personally, I absolutely love Albania and Montenegro so far - the latter will be getting a revamp to polish things up (it's not the most competitive Balkan ballad but it will make do).

Also, I have faith in and next week - the next Super Saturday will hopefully be more competitive and convincing. Moreover, got a pretty decent Final - unless Markus Rivas takes the trophy... isn't too shabby either.. and the following week, we'll face San Remo

[+ I'm hoping for and to fully convince the fandom]

 

[Mainshow]

BTW, what's the point of making all jury members rank ALL songs in ESC?
It somehow made sense when producers have to come up with a shared Top 10 (public and juries)so that entries which aced the televoting but "only" ended up being #12 or #14 got some points at least and vice versa... but since we got the new voting system (2 sets of points per country) back in 2016... what's the point?

I think that the more progressive and interesting entries often underperform with the juries because there are 2-3 jurors per country who don't know how to rank them. Hearing about some former German jurors (who occassionally falls asleep during Eurovision) or Swedish/Danish jurors (who admittedly voted upside down), I fail to see the approach.

Wouldn't it be "enough" and way better to just ask the 5 jury members to come up with their own Top 10s?
That way we won't be witnessing politically motivated downvotes by Serbia, Albania, Azerbaijan, Armenia (or Ukraine/Russia the years before) and the "danger" of jurors not knowing what to do with their #11 to #20 rank (let's face it.. it's even hard for us dedicated viewers to come up with a solidifed ranking of all songs we're happy with).

It still just gives too much power to the juries since televoters simply vote for their favourite entry (or maybe they vote for 5 countries at best) whilst juries can downvote songs by placing them #19 or even #26.

 

[MooseShoes]

BTW, what's the point of making all jury members rank ALL songs in ESC?
It somehow made sense when producers have to come up with a shared Top 10 (public and juries)so that entries which aced the televoting but "only" ended up being #12 or #14 got some points at least and vice versa... but since we got the new voting system (2 sets of points per country) back in 2016... what's the point?

I think that the more progressive and interesting entries often underperform with the juries because there are 2-3 jurors per country who don't know how to rank them. Hearing about some former German jurors (who occassionally falls asleep during Eurovision) or Swedish/Danish jurors (who admittedly voted upside down), I fail to see the approach.

Wouldn't it be "enough" and way better to just ask the 5 jury members to come up with their own Top 10s?
That way we won't be witnessing politically motivated downvotes by Serbia, Albania, Azerbaijan, Armenia (or Ukraine/Russia the years before) and the "danger" of jurors not knowing what to do with their #11 to #20 rank (let's face it.. it's even hard for us dedicated viewers to come up with a solidifed ranking of all songs we're happy with).

It still just gives too much power to the juries since televoters simply vote for their favourite entry (or maybe they vote for 5 countries at best) whilst juries can downvote songs by placing them #19 or even #26.

I think the whole "rank every song" thing does actually stop one juror from bombing an act when the others have it high up. If they only rank ten songs, it means that 15/16 songs are automatically in joint 25th/26th place instead of 11th or 14th or something. Then they have that whole exponential calculation to help. There was an article about it on the site:

https://www.escunited.com/editorial-a-deeper-look-at-the-eurovision-exponential-jury-system/

One thing I like about the juries is that they rank songs, which contrasts nicely with the televoters, who often pick just one. Okay, it's often because it helps the songs that I like (e.g. "Saudade, saudade") but things do seem to balance out pretty well and this is one area where I do think the EBU have worked to imrpove things. Compare what happened to Igranka with what happened to Trenulețul: both were bombed by the juries in the semis but received excellent televote scores; back in 2013 Igranka was eliminated but in 2022 Trenulețul wasn't. (I mean, 2013's system was an absolute joke!)

 

[Realest]

Which country will save this year? I feel like this edition is going to be a disaster, do many weak/ irrelevant NFs and bad selected songs…

(with Mans)
possibly
as usual
usually I dont write this, but this year Im pretty confident
I have a feeling both will rise from the dead somehow

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

The problem this year Is all the entries selected 'til now are in the to range imo, nothing really disgraceful, but nothing really memorable either. I still don't even have a clear favourite between them.

 

[Mainshow]

I think the whole "rank every song" thing does actually stop one juror from bombing an act when the others have it high up. If they only rank ten songs, it means that 15/16 songs are automatically in joint 25th/26th place instead of 11th or 14th or something. Then they have that whole exponential calculation to help. There was an article about it on the site:

https://www.escunited.com/editorial-a-deeper-look-at-the-eurovision-exponential-jury-system/

One thing I like about the juries is that they rank songs, which contrasts nicely with the televoters, who often pick just one. Okay, it's often because it helps the songs that I like (e.g. "Saudade, saudade") but things do seem to balance out pretty well and this is one area where I do think the EBU have worked to imrpove things. Compare what happened to Igranka with what happened to Trenulețul: both were bombed by the juries in the semis but received excellent televote scores; back in 2013 Igranka was eliminated but in 2022 Trenulețul wasn't. (I mean, 2013's system was an absolute joke!)

I see your point and occassionally, the whole system does work (I like the song you've pointed out) but in general, I think it's unnecessarily complicated for non-Eurovision hardcore fans to rank 26 songs right away. We cherish it, we listen to the songs weeks before the contest and honestly, I think we take more things into consideration.
The EBU asked the juries to consider originality, composition etc. but they basically just go for what they like (their upper rankings) and what they heavily dislike/need to rank last because of politics (last place/bottom 2) and the middle is just there - a juror who can't even really remember the a song could place it #12 (and it will be getting points) or #20 (and it will be forgotten even though other jury members might have placed it #10). It's too much to ask - because the juries have to rank them right on the spot - some German jurors have spoken out about this - that it's too demanding/there's a lot of pressure because the EBU basically want the rankings straight after the performances.

Asking the juries to only rank their Top 10 will still allow songs to shine when juries place them high (which can still contrast the televoting) but that way, they don't "vote down" songs a single or two jurors really cherish/like, e.g. if they're coming from the rock scene / or have a classical/ethno music background.
e.g. "Sentimentai" by Monika was ranked #22 by the Greek jury - even though two jurors placed it #12.
That song was quite original (and no "fast food", camp, generic music) - did it deserve to be ranked Bottom 3 by the "professional juries"? - If two jurors downvoting a single song have so much power, I prefer them to focus on their own Top 10 and give more thoughts into their decisions - instead of being "asked" (forced) to rank 26 songs within a very limited time.
"Hold Me Closer" was inside the Top 10 of two Greek jurors, yet Sweden was #18 out of 24 entries in the combined ranking. That's ridiculous.

Right now, we're kind of in a limbo - when juries basically (implicitly) follow the betting odds, go for vocalists with English-speaking songs which are very radio-friendly and they overload them with points (the margins between Nemo and Slimane, Loreen and Noa Kirel/Marco Mengoni were effing ridiculous)

 

[MooseShoes]

I see your point and occassionally, the whole system does work (I like the song you've pointed out) but in general, I think it's unnecessarily complicated for non-Eurovision hardcore fans to rank 26 songs right away. We cherish it, we listen to the songs weeks before the contest and honestly, I think we take more things into consideration.

I agree about the hardcore fans and reckon there are plenty of us who could do a better job than a lot of the so-called professionals. It'd be interesting to know who they all are as I remember quite a few years ago (2018, I think) one or two of the Spanish jurors were people who'd just participated in Operación Triunfo. In other words, people with limited experience and no career to speak of.

The problem is that we represent a very small part of the Grand Final televoters and the system has to be the same for everyone. Locals tuning in one night a year for a bit of fun will be happy to send a few SMSs to vote for their favourite; I doubt they'll be ranking 25 or 26 songs and working out how to send that information.

The EBU asked the juries to consider originality, composition etc. but they basically just go for what they like (their upper rankings) and what they heavily dislike/need to rank last because of politics (last place/bottom 2) and the middle is just there - a juror who can't even really remember the a song could place it #12 (and it will be getting points) or #20 (and it will be forgotten even though other jury members might have placed it #10). It's too much to ask - because the juries have to rank them right on the spot - some German jurors have spoken out about this - that it's too demanding/there's a lot of pressure because the EBU basically want the rankings straight after the performances.

Definitely true as well. I do think there are years when the juries' decision makes more sense, for example with last year, when the composition was very original in terms of music and lyrics and Nemo's performance was exceptional. I'll admit to being biased in 2023, but I thought there was so little originality in Tattoo despite Loreen's performance and that it did not deserve the score it got. I think that jurors should have to do some work beforehand but I can imagine the EBU being against that.

Asking the juries to only rank their Top 10 will still allow songs to shine when juries place them high (which can still contrast the televoting) but that way, they don't "vote down" songs a single or two jurors really cherish/like, e.g. if they're coming from the rock scene / or have a classical/ethno music background.
e.g. "Sentimentai" by Monika was ranked #22 by the Greek jury - even though two jurors placed it #12.
That song was quite original (and no "fast food", camp, generic music) - did it deserve to be ranked Bottom 3 by the "professional juries"? - If two jurors downvoting a single song have so much power, I prefer them to focus on their own Top 10 and give more thoughts into their decisions - instead of being "asked" (forced) to rank 26 songs within a very limited time.
"Hold Me Closer" was inside the Top 10 of two Greek jurors, yet Sweden was #18 out of 24 entries in the combined ranking. That's ridiculous.

Yeah, all of that is ridiculous. Juries constantly overrate and underrate and it's true for a lot of countries. Any juror who gave Unforgettable more points than Luktelk can go do one! (Looking at you, jury!) Oh, and one of my favourite most ridiculous bits of jury tomfoolery was when put Shum last. Last!

Right now, we're kind of in a limbo - when juries basically (implicitly) follow the betting odds, go for vocalists with English-speaking songs which are very radio-friendly and they overload them with points (the margins between Nemo and Slimane, Loreen and Noa Kirel/Marco Mengoni were effing ridiculous)

True, but juries also gave recognition to in 2018 and in 2019, which is something completely unexpected. They can surprise you sometimes.

In conclusion, I'm in favour of the juries staying and keeping the split at 50/50. I'd probably less so if it didn't favour songs I like, I'll admit, but I do think that each one keeps the other side from doing things that are too ridiculous.

 

[aef]

(with Mans)
possibly
as usual
usually I dont write this, but this year Im pretty confident
I have a feeling both will rise from the dead somehow

with Mans - LOL

I’ve seen this man too many times at Eurovision, I really don’t care about him anymore.

 

[Sammy]

with Mans - LOL

I’ve seen this man too many times at Eurovision, I really don’t care about him anymore.

Same here.
And everybody who sees him already as the winner - not only of Mello, but of the contest itself - seems to forget that in Vienna he got neither the 1st place in the televote nor in the jury vote. That is so far away from the fame Loreen built up with her victory (which eventually gave her the last push to get a second one).

 

[Wynnter]

Same here.
And everybody who sees him already as the winner - not only of Mello, but of the contest itself - seems to forget that in Vienna he got neither the 1st place in the televote nor in the jury vote. That is so far away from the fame Loreen built up with her victory (which eventually gave her the last push to get a second one).

Quick correction: Mans did win the jury vote in 2015. In the televote he was 3rd though.

 

[njdevils94]

They still want to mess around with the presentation of qualifiers to add "excitement".

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1884587446597296446

 

[Wynnter]

They still want to mess around with the presentation of qualifiers to add "excitement".

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1884587446597296446

They really really want to fix what isn't broken... huh? The semi-final qualifier announcements have been exciting as hell for more than a decade now. I don't get it.