Euro 2016

[Gabe]

It looks like Africa is going to win the Euro.

 

[esc87fan]

I know who I'm cheering for on Sunday, but good luck to both teams!

 

[ESCFr]

It looks like Africa is going to win the Euro.

 

[EscGeek]

It looks like Africa is going to win the Euro.

 

[Chorizo]

Wow, so many butthurt people here.

 

[ESCFr]

Wow, so many butthurt people here.

*people with common sense

 

[Chorizo]

*people with common sense

The French team indeed looks a lot like a team from Africa, which I was referring to. I did not express any criticism of this. The problem occurs in the heads of those people who seem to think that a reference to Africa is automatically negative for some reason. Shame on you, who are that narrow-minded! There are many people in Africa and elsewhere who support the French team and who are proud that players of African decent play such a prominent role on the team.

 

[EscGeek]

The French team indeed looks a lot like a team from Africa, which I was referring to. I did not express any criticism of this. The problem occurs in the heads of those people who seem to think that a reference to Africa is automatically negative for some reason. Shame on you, who are that narrow-minded! There are many people in Africa and elsewhere who support the French team and who are proud that players of African decent play such a prominent role on the team.

well said

 

[ShoeFlo]

The French team indeed looks a lot like a team from Africa, which I was referring to. I did not express any criticism of this. The problem occurs in the heads of those people who seem to think that a reference to Africa is automatically negative for some reason. Shame on you, who are that narrow-minded! There are many people in Africa and elsewhere who support the French team and who are proud that players of African decent play such a prominent role on the team.

Regardless of whether your statement was meant as a joke or not, you knew what kind of reaction you would get for a statement like this.
So, it was certainly a provocation. But why?

 

[GianlucaTomoe]

Why does the origin of the French players is so important for certain people? They are still French after all, if they're playing for the French team this means that they are French. The origins of the various players are like the gender in the ESC-entries: simply irrelevant.

 

[ShoeFlo]

I don't know if it's necessary to start a discussion now but I will simply go ahead
If one consider the origins of a player or his living place as the crucial criterion to decide to which national team he belongs depends on how much weight you give to talent and how much to education.
I think in some countries (Turkey, amongst other) it's a common opinion that players should play for the countries of their parents. I notice that German national team gets hardly appreciation for their achievement by some immigrants here cause they use to say "this is not a german team" "you can only win thanks to foreign players.." and stuff like this. Also some Italian people use to come up with this argument to disdain the achievment of our national team. Basically, I accept this idea and until some years ago I would have agreed with that concept but nowadays I think very differently
Let's just take the Turkish "minority" in Germany as an example.
Here are living over 2 million Turkish-origin people.
In Turkey there are living over 70 million Turkish people.
There are quite some great players of Turkish origin that grew up in Germany like Özil, Gündogan, Can, Calhanoglou...
Now, let's count the great Turkish players that were developed in the 70 million people country of Turkey: Arda Turan and ehm... hang on... I'm still thinking... nope.
The intention of this example is to demonstrate the worth of developement and promotion of young players, the worth of good coaches, good infrastructure and organization. The Turkish football association apparently doesn't do a good job. They are struggling with promoting young talents, the league is average, and I don't think there are many good coaches.
Now, would it be fair if players like Özil play for Turkey, to "reward" the bad job the Turkish association is doing? Just because his parents are of Turkish origins? Theoretically Turkish association could relax and just waiting for the players we develope for them. That wouldnt be fair. The national team of a country is the reflection of the association's work. (beside demography and enthusiasm, which also plays a role here). DFB (German football association) stepped up their promotion of youth after 2000 and nowodays we reap what we once sowed. The immigrant players that grew up here should play for Germany cause we made them big. Özil wouldn't be as good as he is today if he grew up in Turkey.
Sorry if this post looks like a Turkey bashing post. I just took them as an example. It would also work for other big diasporas like the Albanian diaspore in Switzerland or the African diaspora in France. That's why I think it's fair that also the players of African origin play for the French national team as long as they are promoted there. Of course, naturalization like for exmaple Qatar loves to do is a totally different story. I despise that.

 

[Chorizo]

Regardless of whether your statement was meant as a joke or not, you knew what kind of reaction you would get for a statement like this.
So, it was certainly a provocation. But why?

The question is why some people think that acknowledging the African decent of many players on the French team (some of them born in Africa) is meant as criticism or even racism although no negative evaluation was included in my post. There are people who immediately jump to conclusions like this, although my post was completely harmless. Why would I be against football players from Africa? Do the people who thought I meant to criticize the players think that I would prefer the immigrants from Africa to be bad at football? Actually it's good if immigrants can contribute something positive to society, which should be obvious.

I cannot help it if people get angry for no reason. I did not mean to provoke anyone and I'm actually a little surprised by the knee-jerk reaction of some people. My post was neutral and how it was perceived says a lot about the way the people who responded to it think about the matter. It seems some people automatically see criticism when certain topics are addressed. It's rather sad that some people expect a comment about Africans to be said with negative intentions simply because it's about Africans.

 

[Chorizo]

Why does the origin of the French players is so important for certain people? They are still French after all, if they're playing for the French team this means that they are French. The origins of the various players are like the gender in the ESC-entries: simply irrelevant.

Are you saying that male singers and female singers are equally appreciated by you in Eurovision?

Now I think my post was really worth all the unintended commotion.

 

[Morty]

[MENTION=13781]Chorizo[/MENTION] I found your "Africa post" racist too, and the reason is that a Danish nationalist party used a picture from the match between Iceland and France, saying something about how France was African (the picture showed 3 black French players, and one white Icelandic player), and that they don't belong in Europe. And then you post that. Maybe you didn't mean anything racist about it, but thanks to the Danish nationalists, it's really hard to not see anything racist in it...

 

[JamieBrown]

And I honestly still don't see any reason to post this, but that you care for the origin of the players parents? You said that you didn't want to say anything racist, but why did you post that at all?

 

[ESCFr]

Even the Front National admitted that the whole "African players" thing was ridiculous...

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Very proud of Wales for getting to the semis, glad they had a good home-coming in Cardiff today. Congratulations to them and Iceland, for me, they've both been the stars of Euro 2016!


I wish the best of luck to both the finalists. It would be wonderful to have the host win, but I'm sticking with my dear Ronaldo So go

 

[Gabe]

Hope Ronaldo loses bad, and plays worse. Wanna see that egotist cut down to size as brutally as possible

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Hope Ronaldo loses bad, and plays worse. Wanna see that egotist cut down to size as brutally as possible

Don't get the Ronaldo hate lol, he's actually dead insecure lol not an egotist

 

[Chorizo]

And I honestly still don't see any reason to post this, but that you care for the origin of the players parents? You said that you didn't want to say anything racist, but why did you post that at all?

I don't understand why you turn this into a problem. It's not just the players' parents, btw. Some of the players were born in Africa.
What my post shows is that the usual suspects immediately expect racism when someone posts about Africans and therefore jump to the defense of the alleged victims, who haven't even been criticized in the first place. I think you should reconsider your attitude about Africans. It's not nice when people actually say something racist but automatically seeing Africans as victims of racism isn't a good way of thinking either.

Acknowledging someone's ethnic background is not racism. Acknowledging differences is not the same as criticizing them. What you posted makes clear that you think pointing out that there are players of African decent is a problem. It seems to me that you are the one with the questionable attitude here, not me. You should think about that and stop being so negative. You seem to think that in order to be PC you must completely ignore that different people have different ethnic backgrounds because admitting that would be bad for some reason.