Israel ESC United - LIVE from Tel Aviv - GRAND FINAL DISCUSSION

[Daybreak]

Somewhat flabbergasted by how well Storm did, especially in the semi lol (even ahead of Greece?). But it was the kind of "generic, yet accessible" song that often does well in ESC, and its success in Estonia was already somewhat of a hint. Hilariously enough, I think it actually might've stood out in this year's lineup On another note, I'm quite thankful that Australia ultimately didn't do better than Estonia last year. I think it's fair.

Congratulations to North Macedonia, Slovenia, Norway... Switzerland for returning to the final with a fourth place, wow! ...and Soldi is the first time in 10 years one of my favorites is in top 3!

 

[Carian]

Belarus was saved in the first semi by the juries. If it was up to the people, Zena would have stayed back...

 

[Pawhlen]

So another ESC-season has ended, so now it´s only about 5-6 months until a new season begins and culminating with ESC in Amsterdam or Rottendam in May next year, see you all then in January-February

 

[JensJohan]

people in juries create buzz and influence odds.

Excuse me? Juries are not known for long long time. Only couple of weeks before ESC juries are being selected. When this year juries were selected, Netherlands, Russia and Sweden were already dominating betting odds for weeks. So, am I living in a parallel world or you are simply mistaken? Besides, JURIES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DISCUSS THEIR VOTING. And how could 205 people from 41 countries influece odds? Oh, come on. I am wasting my time with this argument.

I didn't mean the individual jurors but the community of professionals from which jurors are selected, a community that is much much smaller than the general public, but still has a very large influence on what songs people talk about.

 

[nofuxCZ]

Split results by each country also available here in more user friendly form than on the official website https://eurovisionworld.com/eurovision/2019

 

[strupberry]

I am starting to hate juries. Really. They can be much more political than public vote and I think that these experts are influenced by the odds. Majority of the viewership doesn't follow this competition so closely, so they are really less likely influenced by odds. I think that these odds and various Wiwibloggs importantly shape the opinion of professional juries. Wanna proof? Look at Sweden.

Indeed. And not only that, they seem to have a 1001 bias, their criteria and preferences seem to be too subjective to have such weight.

I am browsing the detailed jury votes of different countries, and their votes are all over the place. Sometimes not even consistent between the two (pretty equal) performances.

For example, there's one Czech jury member who put Slovenia as 16/16 in semi and 6/25 in the final.

 

[JensJohan]

For example, there's one Czech jury member who put Slovenia as 16/16 in semi and 6/25 in the final.

Slovenia grew on me too in the final. I had it top 3 in the end, together with Switzerland and Italy.

 

[tuorem]

The new way of revealing the televoting part might be more thrilling, but it's unfortunate not to clearly see the viewers' ranking anymore.

For instance, I thought North Macedonia had flopped, but they actually didn't since Tamara was 12th. Same for Serhat.

 

[Leydan]

It masked the fact the juries had screwed over the publics favourite also^


I don't like it purely for how "cruel" it is towards the singers. Build them up, and then bring them crashing down. However it is probably here to stay tbh, for the fact is helps mask the clear differences between juries and televotes.

 

[Teaisloveable]

It's definitely divisive.

Does it make the show more tense? Yes, I think it does. Though at the expense of the artists themselves. Seeing some of the reactions (EG: Czech Republic) was quite heartbreaking.

I think however you reveal the results there will be pros and cons, I don't doubt that the EBU will experiment further eventually, but I imagine this format will stay for at least a few ywars to come.

 

[tuorem]

Seeing some of the reactions (EG: Czech Republic) was quite heartbreaking.

Not gonna lie, I liked that dramatic part The Czechs weren't the only ones, Michela also got her shot while receiving her 20 points... At first, I thought they would only show the acts that did really well in the televote, but they seemed to film some precisely because of the gap in terms of points.

Only the acts of the juries' top ten are guaranteed to react in front of the camera regardless of their amounts of points it seems.

 

[ZoboCamel]

One takeaway from the results this year: perhaps the fan bubble (including myself, analysts, blogs and everyone else) has been putting too much emphasis on staging when predicting the results.

Looking back to rehearsals and throughout the semis, there was so much hype about the staging from Azerbaijan, Georgia, Austria, France and then Australia in particular. I imagine the staging did end up helping those entries (most of them finishing around 2-5 positions higher than most people expected pre-rehearsal)... but it also wasn't quite as impactful as a lot of people were assuming, with Aze/Aus/Fra landing some distance away from the win and Georgia/Austria a few spots out of qualification.

On the other hand, you've got early favourites Italy and the Netherlands ending in the top two spots despite the disappointment around their initial staging reveals. Similarly, Russia ended up with the third place that a lot of people were expecting to begin with. And while I'm not sure people were really predicting Norway's televote win regardless, it came particularly out of left field given all of the criticisms about their dark, prop-free staging.

So it feels like, at least this year, juries and televoters alike paid more attention to the songs themselves than the way they were presented. As to whether that'll continue next year... who knows?

 

[RainyWoods]

It masked the fact the juries had screwed over the publics favourite also^


I don't like it purely for how "cruel" it is towards the singers. Build them up, and then bring them crashing down. However it is probably here to stay tbh, for the fact is helps mask the clear differences between juries and televotes.

You might be onto something here. Imagine the reaction live in the hall had they revealed the votes in score order and Norway were revealed as the public winner right at the last second. The hall would have erupted. I didn't realise Norway had won the public vote until after the show had finished and I looked at everything deeper. I think they should go back to how they had things before. Norway won the televote last night and that should have at least been acknowledged and celebrated properly (also San Marino's top 10 x).

The tension for me actually was gone as soon as it was revealed that The Netherlands had beaten Italy. I knew Sweden wasn't going to do great with the televote and Macedonia wasn't either (though 12th actually isn't bad at all).

 

[LakZaNokte]

One takeaway from the results this year: perhaps the fan bubble (including myself, analysts, blogs and everyone else) has been putting too much emphasis on staging when predicting the results.

Looking back to rehearsals and throughout the semis, there was so much hype about the staging from Azerbaijan, Georgia, Austria, France and then Australia in particular. I imagine the staging did end up helping those entries (most of them finishing around 2-5 positions higher than most people expected pre-rehearsal)... but it also wasn't quite as impactful as a lot of people were assuming, with Aze/Aus/Fra landing some distance away from the win and Georgia/Austria a few spots out of qualification.

On the other hand, you've got early favourites Italy and the Netherlands ending in the top two spots despite the disappointment around their initial staging reveals. Similarly, Russia ended up with the third place that a lot of people were expecting to begin with. And while I'm not sure people were really predicting Norway's televote win regardless, it came particularly out of left field given all of the criticisms about their dark, prop-free staging.

So it feels like, at least this year, juries and televoters alike paid more attention to the songs themselves than the way they were presented. As to whether that'll continue next year... who knows?

Influence of staging has been in downfall for years now, at least when it comes to winners.
It is still about the songs, and it should be that way.

Good/intersting staging can help u with qualificntio to final, and with the overall result but, judging by last few years, only to certain extent.
The juries seem to be least interested in stagings, it may bring u few more votes with audience only.

Also, I have noticed since I don’t listen to the songs prior to live show, that my impressions often do not match current mood in forum. Examples are Switzerland and Australia, for this year. I said right away the songs just aren’t good enough but also noticed many had these two as contenders for the top 3.

It’s different when u listen to studio versions for months and when u hear/see something 1st time in live. Hard to explain entire phenomenon but it is there.

 

[Daybreak]

As someone who doesn't watch rehearsals or any other sneak peeks, if you see the performances only once (or twice if they make the final) paying attention to staging details is simply impossible (unless it's particularly in your face/over the top). Especially if you also hear a lot of the songs fully or even the first time during the live shows, you'd probably be mostly focusing on the music to begin with.

 

[Edweis]

France's televote 12 points went to Israel, which is... not surprising as Israel is the 2nd country we give the most points to.
In the semi we gave it to Portugual and 10 to Iceland.

I still don't understand Czech Republic jury/televote ratio, that's one of the song I expected the most to do well in televote and so-so in jury.
That being said, I'm still in favor of a 50/50 jury and televote participation. Each year we have songs killed by juries and saved by televote or the contrary, getting rid of one of them wouldn't do them any justice.

John's reaction to the televoting was sad. I think the hosts put to much emphasis on how many points he needed to win. Getting 93 in place of 253 was kinda ridiculous.
Even if the new reveal is interesting, it's quite chaotic, It's harder to see who did well in televote.

The staging is mostly important to those who knew the songs beforehand. Or, in case of Australia, when they're out of the box. When you're a casual viewer (as I've been for years), you may be marked by some stagings, but it's definitely something that won't bring down a performance because you're too focused on the song in itself.

 

[hawadharma]

Eurovision 2019 X Game Of Thrones

So..
1. Jon Snow eventually takes the Iron Throne, followed closely by Samwell Tarly
2. The lords of the houses wanted Tyrion Lannister to rule, followed closely by Sansa Stark
3. Surprisingly the common people wanted Bran Stark to rule, then only Jon Snow
4. Other popular characters near to win the throne include Jaime Lannister and Arya Stark
5. Despite being evil, Cersei Lannister and Night King still in the Top 10 of the claim to Iron Throne
6. Daenerys is nowhere near the Iron Throne, not by the lords of the houses or the common people standard

P/s: Just for fun, don't take it seriously. I just found it fascinating how this youtuber can crossover 2 of my favorite things like that

 

[NemesisNick]

Well folks, it's the morning after the The Eurovision Song Contest 2019 Grand Final, from the Expo Tel Aviv (International Convention Center), Tel Aviv, Israel. What an exciting voting sequence last night, right up to the very last moment. There was no runaway winner this year. Once again certain countries received significant differences between jury and public scores, and no doubt plenty of die-hard Eurovision fans (me included) will have great fun analysing in the forthcoming days.

I've just discovered that Sweden won the jury voting with 239 points (clearly obvious on the scoreboard after all 41 countries had announced their jury scores), but finished just 9th with 93 points in the public vote, and 6th overall with 332 points. Norway won the televoting with 291 points, but 15th with 47 points in the jury vote and 5th overall with 338 points. The overall winner was the Netherlands with 492 points, despite finishing 3rd with 231 points in the jury voting and 2nd with 261 point in the televoting.

 

[NemesisNick]

The new way of revealing the televoting part might be more thrilling, but it's unfortunate not to clearly see the viewers' ranking anymore.

For instance, I thought North Macedonia had flopped, but they actually didn't since Tamara was 12th. Same for Serhat.

That's one drawback on the new way of revealing the televoting scores, but I think that's a small price to pay for having a more exciting finish. You can always find out the televote ranking online afterwards. Here's a web page that's got this year's scores, with a table. All columns, including Tele(vote), are sortable; click at the top of the relevant column to sort it. Furthermore, this allows you to see graphical spider diagrams of who gave points to which country (including non-qualifiers) gave points to which finalist, and points that finalists received from other countries. Have fun playing around with this lot!
https://eurovisionworld.com/eurovision/2019

 

[crashworld]

I still don't understand Czech Republic jury/televote ratio, that's one of the song I expected the most to do well in televote and so-so in jury.
That being said, I'm still in favor of a 50/50 jury and televote participation. Each year we have songs killed by juries and saved by televote or the contrary, getting rid of one of them wouldn't do them any justice.

Even if the new reveal is interesting, it's quite chaotic, It's harder to see who did well in televote.

RE: Czech Republic - I was shocked to be honest. I also think it will do better in the televoting.
RE: New televotes reveal - While I think it's interesting and keep the suspense, but I prefer that credit should be given to the winner of the televotes. The way it's presented gives the impression that televotes are secondary to jury votes.