Block voting - It's getting worse

[FallenAngelII]

I agree that there is blockvoting and I agree with what you say about Western Europe will even give points to each other even if the song is bad, although I haven't seen that yesterday actually :s. But you can't deny either, that most votes of ex-USSR will stay within the ex-USSR. The highest points will not go to the same country every year, but it was predictable yesterday which countries would receive 8, 10 or 12 points, while the West-European countries, Scandinavia, Baltic States and even ex-Yougoslavia suprised me a bit with their voting.

As I've already said, that's partially or largely due to a shared cultural and musical heritage. If you look at the kinds of Ec-USSR entries that often do well in Eurovision, they're of certain genres, often sung by local celebrities. This is why the same Ex-USSR countries don't always get high marks from the same countries.

However, if you look at, for instance, the Nordic countries, almost no matter what gets sent in, every single Nordic country always gives it 8, 10 and 12-pointers to their neighbours, with a few exceptions (also, Finland is, unforunately, a part of the Nordic Mafia, not because of the points they give out but because of the points they receive).

Meanwhile, Western Europe often ignores Eastern Europe completely or given them only minor points. Azerbaijan's winning entry? Got nil points by quite a few Western European countries. However, many Eastern European countries still gave Sweden points, despite the fact that Sweden only received minor to middling points from its mom-Nordic Western European kinsmen. And this is not an isolated phenomenon.

 

[yulara]

The Iberian Peninsula are just as bad as the Nordic nations. France, Spain and Portugal always award each other 8's, 10's and 12's.

3
French points of the last years:
2011:
12 pts - spain
10 pts - sweden (3rd)
8 pts - italy (2nd)

2010 :
12 pts - turkey (2nd)
10 pts - serbia
8 pts - portugal

2009 :
12 pts - turkey (4th)
10 pts - israel
8 pts - norway (winner)

2008 :
12 pts - armenia (4th)
10 pts - turkey
8 pts - portugal

2007 :
12 pts - turkey (4th)
10 pts - armenia
8 pts - russia (3rd)

2006 :
12 pts - turkey
10 pts - bosnia (3rd)
8 pts - denmark

2005 :
12 pts - turkey
10 pts - israel (4th)
8 pts - greece (winner)

2004 :
12 pts - turkey (4th)
10 pts - serbia (2nd)
8pts - spain

2003 :
12 pts - belgium (2nd)
10 pts - turkey (winner)
8 pts - israel

2002 :
12 pts - spain
10 pts - israel
8 pts - latvia (winner)

2001 :
12 pts - portugal
10 pts - israel
8 pts - estonia (winner)

sorry but I don't call it an iberian block-voting, more a turkish diaspora voting...

 

[Joyride]

I'm not complaining about the bloc vote, it was just like Belgium-France was used an example, was a bit strange.

You got that one wrong! I didn't say Belgium always votes for France with those 12 points. I used this as a simple examples just as I used the example Germany - Austria, though we don't give steady 12 points to Austria as well.

What I wanted to say was that EVERY country gives points to its neighbour countries, sometimes a few, sometimes even 12 points, but there are only a few exceptions that a country doesn't vote for a neighbour country at all.

Apart from that it is NOT possible that a song wins the ESC just because of neighbours, of block voting, of diaspora or whatever. Every winning song has won because the mainstream, the general public, liked this song.

So let the Turkish people vote for Azerbaijan, so what? It would not have been won if no other country voted for them. Same with Norway 2009. It had a huge commanding lead because every country loved Alexander Rybak (to me, this was the best ESC winner ever!). Norway would not have been won, even with their neighbour countries' help, if nobody else but Sacndinavia voted for them.

When will people finally get this?

 

[asia]

The block voting this year was horrific, horrific from everywhere in europe..... No one country is ex-cussable, in the end we had a good song win, so that's all that matters. The ebu, should tacklke the problem, but how? However they change the system its going to be unfair to someone, somewhere..... I think the voting says a lot about peoples mentality, and if they are not capable of voting for their choice of best song in descrimanitly then the option should be taken away from them and let a jury decide.... Problem with that is, proberly the juries would end up giving similar votes.... At the end of the day, who cares who wins? Its the taking part that counts, and the fun lol.... Its a song contest meant to bring the whole of europe together through our diversity. Am pretty sure most people will agree last night they were rooting for azeri or italy over sweden????

 

[Hegepege]

I think the european audience is pretty good at picking the right winner every year, block-voting or not. In the end it's not who gets the 12-pointer from the neighbour who WINS, but the country that get points from "everyone", that would be an interesting statistic to read. Perhaps it would show that the country getting a 6 from a far away country is most likely to win in the end. I feel Norway is getting fair treatment in the ESC. If we have a crappy song (I am so, so sorry for 2007, I just can't let go of that embarrassing entry) we'll get punished, and if we have a good song, we're rewarded, also from our neighbours. Sharing the same history, culture and so on, it shouldn't come as a shock to people that we also have similar taste in music. I voted for Finland this year, I honestly thought he had the best song and performance, and Finland stood out in a rather noisy crowd. I didn't vote just because they are our neighbour. Block-voting makes it a bit more political, and imo, more interesting to watch the show.

 

[asia]

Omg.... You voted for finland? Slap lol.... Da da dam.....

 

[paddyirl]

Neighboring countries just have similar musical tastes. Thats all it is I think.

San Marino voting for Italy would be like allowing Birmingham to vote for the UK, they will obviously always vote for each other, same with Cyprus and Greece and Azerbaijan and Turkey.

 

[Grinch]

San Marino gave 10 pts to us in sf. Awwww

 

[asia]

But birmingham is part of the uk, san marino is a country, not the same lol

 

[doctormalisimo]

Yeah I think that a lot of "bloc voting" is down to cultural (like when 2 countries share the same music industry eg and ) and linguistic reasons (like and ).

 

[FallenAngelII]

<snip>

I see Portugal represented in those points a whole lot. The years where Portugal didn't get 8-12 were mostly years when Portugal failed to make the final. Otherwise, France routinely awards Portugal 8-12 points... which is laughable considering the fact that Portugal's entries have been largely ignored by Europe as a whole as of late, Western or Eastern.

For several years now, Portugal has consistently ranked in the bottom each year at Eurovision, yet France kept giving Portugal high marks. Also, Portugal and Spain are worse offenders than France. France is still included in the Iberian Block, though, partially the way Finland is included (Finland routinely gets high marks from its Nordic neighbours, but they usually don't return the favour, instead voting more fairly).

San Marino voting for Italy would be like allowing Birmingham to vote for the UK, they will obviously always vote for each other, same with Cyprus and Greece and Azerbaijan and Turkey.

San Marino is an autonomous country. Birmingham is a city in England.

 

[nikolay_BG]

Greece and Cyprus share the same music market. And in last years, Greece is represneted by cypriots (for example Loukas Yorkas is one of them, Anna Vissi is also a cypriot). That`s why I understand why the vote for each other

 

[asia]

Well said fallen

 

[Sabiondo]

Greece and Cyprus share the same music market. And in last years, Greece is represneted by cypriots (for example Loukas Yorkas is one of them, Anna Vissi is also a cypriot). That`s why I understand why the vote for each other

How the last year Grecce was gave their 12 points to an Welsh guy who dont had nothing to do with the Greek Music Market...???

 

[asia]

But the cypriot entry in the past 5 years, 2 times from uk, 2 times cyprus once greek? What's ur point? Lol

 

[nikolay_BG]

How the last year Grecce was gave their 12 points to an Welsh guy who dont had nothing to do with the Greek Music Market...???

They liked the song?
It`s not only politics, we are still talking about songs here I think

 

[yulara]

I see Portugal represented in those points a whole lot. The years where Portugal didn't get 8-12 were mostly years when Portugal failed to make the final. Otherwise, France routinely awards Portugal 8-12 points... which is laughable considering the fact that Portugal's entries have been largely ignored by Europe as a whole as of late, Western or Eastern.

For several years now, Portugal has consistently ranked in the bottom each year at Eurovision, yet France kept giving Portugal high marks. Also, Portugal and Spain are worse offenders than France. France is still included in the Iberian Block, though, partially the way Finland is included (Finland routinely gets high marks from its Nordic neighbours, but they usually don't return the favour, instead voting more fairly).

It's just that France has a strong portugese community, it's a diaspora vote... nothing to do with block voting...
If Morroco, Algeria or Tunisia have a representant in ESC they will have the french 12 points because their community are strong not because France is part of Nothern Africa...

 

[asia]

Exactly, its.... Er, a song contest? Not a (I will be popular) contest.....

 

[FallenAngelII]

It's just that France has a strong portugese community, it's a diaspora vote... nothing to do with block voting...
If Morroco, Algeria or Tunisia have a representant in ESC they will have the french 12 points because their community are strong not because France is part of Nothern Africa...

Whatever the reason, the Iberian Peninsula are worse than the Ex-USSR's sometimes when it comes who they award high points to.

 

[Chisato]

Either way, it's clear the juries are also failing to vote on the song...and giving points to their neighbours as they always used to do in the past.

IMO the juries should consist of fans of the Eurovision who care about the best songs and performances doing well...not "professionals" who only care about high fiving their neighbours and marking down the competition.

I find it hard to believe that we can put cultural differences aside when judging the songs and performances, yet so called professionals cannot.