2019 JURY BEWILDERMENT AND AMUSEMENT THREAD

[Neo]

I wonder what it will take for EBU to actually consider dropping juries as clearly no amount of corrupt or crazy voting has any impact at all.

As I said earlier, I bet it's all to do with how happy they are with the way jury call in + televoting bulk produce good TV, which is more than ironic when juries were obviously put in place for the sake of serious competition and not the show.

 

[BorisBubbles]

I find it weird that people bring up differences between semi and finale votes as an argument against juries. Heaven forbid people change their mind on a song they've only heard twice.

 

[Neo]

So it's weird to expect professionals to be able to judge a song correctly and not have completely different views from day to day?

Another nail in the coffin for juries then.

And why twice? All songs are on the net for weeks in advance. There's really no excuse.

 

[BorisBubbles]

Again that's not the fault of juries. Opinions aren't set in stone; they are prone to change. If you find that hard to swallow, then ask yourself: how often has your opinion changed between semifinal and grand final? If it never has it might indicate that your preferences were determined before the live show even began, which is the opposite of what we want in juries.

Anyway, I agree that professionals should be chucked but without juries amazing songs without a strong televote base such as and would've bombed massively and that's why juries need to remain. Without them, the pressure towards participating countries to bring their A-game is lifted and it will result in a drop in quality.

 

[Realest]

I wonder what it will take for EBU to actually consider dropping juries as clearly no amount of corrupt or crazy voting has any impact at all.

As I said earlier, I bet it's all to do with how happy they are with the way jury call in + televoting bulk produce good TV, which is more than ironic when juries were obviously put in place for the sake of serious competition and not the show.

Jon Ola Sand responds to jury criticism

The EBU’s Executive Supervisor Jon Ola Sand tells VG that the current voting method works well and that there are no plans to change it. However, he is aware of the complaints from his fellow Norwegians.

In response, Sand reiterates that “those who sit on the jury are professional and competent and that all parties, including the broadcasters, are well pleased with the scheme”.

“What we have discussed is the weighting between audience voices and the jury. Now we have 50/50 and we think it works well”.

....

 

[Ezio]

The problem with juries is that we get to know the votes and the names of each jury number. Since jury members are not anonymous, they may be scared to not to vote Azerbaijan down (Armenian jury) or Serbia up (Montenegrin jury). Or they think it has a nice ring to if, if they put Sweden on top.

Maybe jurors would submit more daring and authentic votes, if they don't felt the pressure of personal scrutiny.

The other problem is that in the world of music professionals, everyone may know everyone. And jurors are already biased towards those they know and like. A less biased approach would convey that less so-called professionals are part of the juries.

 

[FilipFromSweden]

The fact that and are doing much, much, much better than on Spotify and iTunes just shows that we need the juries.

 

[A-lister]

Jon Ola Sand responds to jury criticism

The EBU’s Executive Supervisor Jon Ola Sand tells VG that the current voting method works well and that there are no plans to change it. However, he is aware of the complaints from his fellow Norwegians.

In response, Sand reiterates that “those who sit on the jury are professional and competent and that all parties, including the broadcasters, are well pleased with the scheme”.

“What we have discussed is the weighting between audience voices and the jury. Now we have 50/50 and we think it works well”.

Professional and competent? Yeah right... we could see that...

Jan Ola Sand sounds more and more like a despot if anything, completely ignoring valid criticism and just continues on the set path thus disrespecting millions of viewers and the fans of this contest (since apparently we aren't included in his "all parties"), all of whom make this contest and his salary and position possible to begin with. Way to go to spit on the public

 

[FilipFromSweden]

Christer gets so much hate from the Eurovision community, when in my opinion Jon Ola Sand is the biggest donkey in present Eurovision time. Remember in 2013 when he just shut down all cheating allegations about Azerbaijan, and it wasn't until Tobbe Ek pointed out that it was the sister-magazine to Aftonbladet (biggest one in Sweden) who had been digging in it that he actually started his own investigations? He is beyond incompetent.

 

[Alaska49]

i am a very competent, multitasking human and can dish out hate to both, but this a very good point. it's very possible than jon ola sand is a bigger detriment to current eurovision than christer björkman is. both started doing their thing around the same time, ola sand only a couple years earlier. he certainly has more tangible and immediate power than björkman does, though the latter's influence being more subtle and insidious might mean it's going to be harder to get rid of. i certainly am not opposed to sacking jon ola sand and putting someone else in his place.

 

[Pawhlen]

Christer gets so much hate from the Eurovision community, when in my opinion Jon Ola Sand is the biggest donkey in present Eurovision time. Remember in 2013 when he just shut down all cheating allegations about Azerbaijan, and it wasn't until Tobbe Ek pointed out that it was the sister-magazine to Aftonbladet (biggest one in Sweden) who had been digging in it that he actually started his own investigations? He is beyond incompetent.

This, I´m still stunned and impressed that man didn´t got his ass kicked out after that, talking about Jon Ola Sand

And BTW, Björkman is on hospital in Tel Aviv, during the live broadcast off the final, he started feeling very ill and on the hospital they discovered he had a thrombus in his throat, he is now operated and recovering

 

[VirginiaVision]

Again that's not the fault of juries. Opinions aren't set in stone; they are prone to change. If you find that hard to swallow, then ask yourself: how often has your opinion changed between semifinal and grand final? If it never has it might indicate that your preferences were determined before the live show even began, which is the opposite of what we want in juries.

You're absolutely right that people are allowed to change their opinions! That being said, when a song jumps from one extreme to the other between the semi and the final, it does seem a bit odd. I know that some of that probably has to do with it being in a different field of songs, but I just have a hard time believing that almost all of the 16 songs added into the mix come finale would come either higher or lower than a song already graded.

I'm realizing my point is sounding a little confusing, so I'll use one of the actual jury votes as an example. Let's look at juror #1. In semi-final 1, they rank first out of 16. doesn't qualify for the final, but does, so the juror has already heard 10/26 songs in the final. Come finale, they put 25th, second to last. The song ranked last is , which was one of the 10 songs they already knew from the semi. This means that they thought that every single one of the 16 "new" entries was better than their previous favorite AND 8/10 of the qualifying songs from the semi were now better. This is just weird and goes against common psychological phenomena (see Mere-Exposure Effect: http://changingminds.org/explanations/theories/mere_exposure.htm).

 

[Alaska49]

yeah i have to agree here. we all radically change opinions all the time, but like, not from the semifinals to the final lol. it's just four days. we have small adjustments at most.

 

[Realest]

18th with the Juries. Im wondering if this Record will ever be broken. Probably not.

 

[Pawhlen]

18th with the Juries. Im wondering if this Record will ever be broken. Probably not.

Do you mean when it comes to the worst placement for a televote winner? I guess so

 

[Realest]

Do you mean when it comes to the worst placement for a televote winner? I guess so

Yes, but also Pointwise beat 2012s Record.

 

[ZoboCamel]

So following the corrections to the Belarusian jury votes – we can now say that the jury winner was 12th in the televote and the televote winner was 18th in the jury, lol. That's some massive disparity right there.

 

[A-lister]

Wow, so the juries really thought that what we need in 2019 is a pointless clichéd dated banal ballad as a winner when we had modern songs like Italy (4th with juries)? More musically progressive and interesting songs like Iceland (15th with juries)? and a far more contemporary ballad like Netherlands (3rd with juries)? Just wow... real "music professionals" just right there! Norway on 18th now after the whole fiasco got changed?
The public really aren't allowed to have any fun now are we!? Don't give me that nonsense that Norway was dated when one of the most dated bland entries got awarded first spot by the juries Juries really are the worst... no one can take this contest seriously if so called "professionals" think that a song like the Macedonian one is a winner entry... jees it's embarrassing tbh, and then we add all the rest the juries are "adding" to this contest like additional political voting, mistakes made by people with low IQ and corruption... such a "great" addition to the contest indeed!

 

[Pawhlen]

Yes, but also Pointwise beat 2012s Record.

What record?

 

[BorisBubbles]

The difference between the jury points and televote points received by the same entry.