Russia RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova - I Won't Break

[Carian]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

Regardless of profession, someone's beliefs ARE important. It's a measure of the person they are. I don't care if they are best singers or have the best songs. If I find out something in regards to their beliefs or politics that I don't like, then that of course will have an impact on how I view them.

I completely disagree with you, QwaarJet. Namely, if this were so, I shouldn't be listening to any American, British, or French singer at all, since the majority of them support their politicians who are directly responsible for many horrors that are happening far away from public eyes in "some distant" Africa, Yemen etc. In fact, let me give you an example to make my point clearer. I have recently graded songs in our forum here, and I gave 10 points to France. I did this because of the great music and overall package that this song surely is. However, as I already mentioned to my dear friend, tuorem, I find the lyrics of the French song and its message straighforwardly cringe-worthy, hypocritical, and utmost ridiculous. Are you asking yourself, why? Well, go and google France + colonial tax + Africa. When you inform youself about how France even nowadays still exploits its ex-colonies even 50 years after they had been "freed", you will understand that France and the French people are directly responsible for the misery, hunger, and political instability in many African countries, which are simulatenously the main reason why the African people undertake the dangerous road to Europe as refugees. So, what do you say about the French entry now? Will you condemn it as hypocritical like Polina was accused when she was singing about peace? Will you stop listening to French musicians who do not stand up against the French goverments, past and present, and condemn them?
Well, I hope I've made my point clear. Politics of a nation and singer's personal political opinions should not be used as an excuse for hatred, ridicule, belitteling of a singer or a member of that nation nor of the nation as a whole. Cuz if we are going to judge people collectively or based on their political convictions, well, then we wouldn't be speaking right now, would we? Think only about those Yemeni children that UK is helping Saudi Arabia to starve to death. Surely their "storms don't last forever", but their hunger does.
So, if I may sum up, I strongly disagree with you and your opinion that singer's beliefs are important in ESC. Especially political. Even if some singer in the past said horrible things, we all make mistakes in life, don't we? So, isn't he/she, be singer or simple mortal, entitled to get a second chance? Finally, when I read posts of some commentators here about Russia, Putin, Russian representatives in ESC, Russian individuals, Russians as nations, I simply cannot forget that I am a Slavic too. And if someone has so much disrespect for Russians, I can only wonder how much and what kind of hatred would you direct at me, if I personally did something or someone who is a member of my nation what you would disapprove? It's scarry you know, and highly disturbing.

 

[blein]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

I agree with Carian... if we will look at UK,USA,France actions againts asia and africa... then there will be no discussion..

 

[QwaarJet]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

Then you probably " hate " Madonna ... and many American stars who have supported Hilary Clinton or Tramp ..


So I'm wondering if you have anything against political engagement specifically Madonna

And if you do not, why do not you have it?

I have no problem with artists being politically involved. They are human like the rest of us, but it means potentially alienating people. If I found out an American artist I liked supported Trump for instance, that would change my view on them. I wouldn't necessarily stop listening to their music (depending on their reasons for supporting him), but I couldn't go back to thinking of them as just singers. This is why many choose to stay publicly apolitical, so they don't lose any fans.

The 2 Russian singers decided to support a politician publicly. That is of course their choice, but they must also accept the consequences of that. Free speech works both ways. As is also the case with the current Russian representative.

And as for Carian's wall of text, I'm not talking about countries here, I'm talking about individuals. The French representatives are not responsible for their country or government, but they are responsible for their own views. Same with Polina and Dima. I'm not condemning Russia, it's their (now public) views I have a problem with.

 

[A-lister]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

It’s said that Yulia’s esc entry is Russian folk.

She looks bizzare brilliant here..

Really? How can it be a "Russian folk" if it's going to be in English and the same guy that was involved in "What If", "A Million Voices", "Falling Stars" and "Flame is Burning" is involved in this project aswell?

Or maybe they listened to the criticism and go for a complete different direction that could actually benefit her...

 

[A-lister]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

I have no problem with artists being politically involved. They are human like the rest of us, but it means potentially alienating people. If I found out an American artist I liked supported Trump for instance, that would change my view on them. I wouldn't necessarily stop listening to their music (depending on their reasons for supporting him), but I couldn't go back to thinking of them as just singers. This is why many choose to stay publicly apolitical, so they don't lose any fans.

The 2 Russian singers decided to support a politician publicly. That is of course their choice, but they must also accept the consequences of that. Free speech works both ways. As is also the case with the current Russian representative.

And as for Carian's wall of text, I'm not talking about countries here, I'm talking about individuals. The French representatives are not responsible for their country or government, but they are responsible for their own views. Same with Polina and Dima. I'm not condemning Russia, it's their (now public) views I have a problem with.

This

However, I always say to myself that if I'd be judging the artistic outputs of singers (or anyone in "arts" like movies too for instance) based on their political views, I'd probably stop listen to music or watch movies in general because I barely share political opinions with the artists, actors or filmmakers that I like Atleast for me it has little effect on whether I will like a song or not, but yes it does say something about the individual behind.

 

[ag89]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

Eurovision fans are obssesed with Putin. Relax people.

 

[Alaska49]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

okay but can we discuss how horrible this putin team song is

it should be grounds for impeachment it is SO bad

 

[A-lister]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

I don't doubt it. Russians are really putting a lot of effort in their entries. I totally respect that. So, I find it quite annoying that some ESC fans come and start accusing Russia of faring well in ESC only cuz of diaspora, though the fact is that they spend ridiculous amounts of money on everything (except Buranovskie babushki, that was cheap 3). They diminish all their efforts. Oh, and it was really nice to see that France is again investing some energy in the project.

Oh plzz, it's delusional to think that Russia doesn't benefit from diaspora voting, some of their entries lately were very weak and wouldn't have faired aswell if they represented other countries.

Good for Polina and Dima! Putin has done so much for Russia. I can totally understand Polina's and Dima's engagement and view. It is so great to see that Russians are again proud of being Russians. It was really horrible to watch them in 90's when you could feel that they were embarassed of their own homeland. I am simply amazed how much things have changed in less than 20 years!!!

Yeah, good for them with a stagnating economy, corruption levels that are some of the worst in the world and no political freedoms... the inequalities in Russia are huge and while the middle class were growing in the early 00's, it has now stalled and only a small very corrupted elite are benefited and their amazing Tsar is probably the richest politician in the world having incomes from the oil/gas industry going directly to his own pockets and his "allies" for example the Islamist-Mafia that is ruling Chechnya

 

[RoSSerb]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

Oh plzz, it's delusional to think that Russia doesn't benefit from diaspora voting, some of their entries lately were very weak and wouldn't have faired aswell if they represented other countries.



Yeah, good for them with a stagnating economy, corruption levels that are some of the worst in the world and no political freedoms... the inequalities in Russia are huge and while the middle class were growing in the early 00's, it has now stalled and only a small very corrupted elite are benefited and their amazing Tsar is probably the richest politician in the world having incomes from the oil/gas industry going directly to his own pockets and his "allies" for example the Islamist-Mafia that is ruling Chechnya

1.Russia is a whole continent and not just a country. It's logical to have a huge diaspora to vote for Mother Russia.
However, in many countries, ex sssr also vote in a large number of other nations, which is proven by high points from televoting !
There are also many other countries in the diaspora !
This is so and there will be nothing to change. end of discussion.

...even the United Kingdom dragged Australia to esc to benefit from them,.. tomorrow will bring New Zeland and the entire commonwealth,
and negotiates with countries that have Diaspora in Europe. Nonces.


2 .You do not care much about the Russians and their emperor. You need to worry about your country that has turned into a cultural anomaly,
which is filled with refugees and enforces an imposed agenda that comes from outside, and which is not the will of most indigenous Swedes.

 

[EscGeek]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

Eurovision fans are obssesed with Putin. Relax people.

never!

 

[RoSSerb]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

I have no problem with artists being politically involved. They are human like the rest of us, but it means potentially alienating people. If I found out an American artist I liked supported Trump for instance, that would change my view on them. I wouldn't necessarily stop listening to their music (depending on their reasons for supporting him), but I couldn't go back to thinking of them as just singers. This is why many choose to stay publicly apolitical, so they don't lose any fans.

The 2 Russian singers decided to support a politician publicly. That is of course their choice, but they must also accept the consequences of that. Free speech works both ways. As is also the case with the current Russian representative.

And as for Carian's wall of text, I'm not talking about countries here, I'm talking about individuals. The French representatives are not responsible for their country or government, but they are responsible for their own views. Same with Polina and Dima. I'm not condemning Russia, it's their (now public) views I have a problem with.

Yes, I agree with you . I have the same attitude on this issue. However, this does not arise as a question.
The real question is why are you (why me or someone else) ready to discredit a public figure on the basis of its political (or other) affiliation?...
...and especially when they are people who are not from your country... how you can have a problem with that?, unless it is a topic of global politics.
And since that is so, then we are very different. What is good for you is not for me, and vice versa.

 

[Fierro]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

Throwback Thursday:
Anybody remember Polina Gagarina, who participated in 2015 with a completely apolitical song and had absolutely nothing to do with Russian politics?
Now she has officially joined the #PutinTeam together with other apolitical Russians, like Dima Bilan:

If I had some kind of respect for Polina (and maaaybe Dima Bilan), now I have just lost it completely.

 

[RoSSerb]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

Eurovision fans are obssesed with Putin. Relax people.

Not only some fans, but also participants esc..

Is Konchita right the next day after winning the esc stated that she have the greatest desire to meet President Putin , because she does not know what it looks like to manage the most powerful country in the world

Of course Putin immediately refused

Conchita fell in love with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mowrc5dIKr4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg3jQiP_qSs

 

[RoSSerb]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

If I had some kind of respect for Polina (and maaaybe Dima Bilan), now I have just lost it completely.

but that's why I and many others have !

and I'm not surprised why you do not have it

 

[Carian]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

I have no problem with artists being politically involved. They are human like the rest of us, but it means potentially alienating people. If I found out an American artist I liked supported Trump for instance, that would change my view on them. I wouldn't necessarily stop listening to their music (depending on their reasons for supporting him), but I couldn't go back to thinking of them as just singers. This is why many choose to stay publicly apolitical, so they don't lose any fans.

The 2 Russian singers decided to support a politician publicly. That is of course their choice, but they must also accept the consequences of that. Free speech works both ways. As is also the case with the current Russian representative.

And as for Carian's wall of text, I'm not talking about countries here, I'm talking about individuals. The French representatives are not responsible for their country or government, but they are responsible for their own views. Same with Polina and Dima. I'm not condemning Russia, it's their (now public) views I have a problem with.

Well, let me ask you a few simple questions at this point. How many CD's of Russian artist have you bought in your life that have not participated in ESC? Have you been to any of their concerts? How much involved are you with Russian internal politics and Russian pop-culture? Do you read news about Russia from Western sources only or do you read and listen also Russian media outlets (real Russian, not American media that spread American propaganda in Russia)? My guess is that your answers were probably: 1) None; 2) None; 3) Not much or not at all; 4) I don't read Russian media sources. So, how could Polina and Dima alienate their "fans" in the West, if they have NONE? Furthermore, how can you expect any "moral responsability" from them towards non-existing fans outside the ex-USSR coutries, where no-one knows them or cares about them?

To finish this debate with you, let me tell you a story that recently happened to me. I have an American friend in Slovenia, who is a Democrat. As for me, I can say that I find some Democratic as well as Republican and Trump's ideas attractive and good. But in general, I do not favor none of them in particular. So, interestingly, I have got a long speech/lecture not so long ago from this friend about racistic, chauvinistic, and sexistic comments by Trump, when I said that I like some of Trump's ideas. My friend as a true Democrat cannot allow nor support Trump for his "horrible" views. However, two weeks ago, this friend of mine, who had so many things to say about my sympathies for some of Trump's ideas, started to denigrate and make really nasty comments about Gypsies/Roma living here for much longer and for many more generations than he does. He was not even aware of how racistic his comments were. My reaction was:

So, what's the lesson/point of my story? Well, my American friend subscribes to all the "right" political views, but his actions are complete opposite of what he is saying that he believes in. Moreover, he lectured me for only SYMPATHIZING with some of Trump's ideas, while his actions were later much worse than anything I have ever heard from Trump. So, while you judge people based on their views, I prefer to judge them based on their actions. And as long as Polina and Dima do not start spreading racism, hatred etc., I really do not care if they express their direct support for Putin or not. In the end, Putin may have prohibited gay lifestyle in public, he did not criminalize it tho. Apart from this one error in Putin's career/agenda, I do not find anything wrong with other values that Putin publicly advocates.

In any case, I apologize for my long "wall of text", though I don't regret it. I am just having a fine debate, trying to understand some of the things I am noticing here. In any case, I wish you a good day.

 

[A-lister]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

1.Russia is a whole continent and not just a country. It's logical to have a huge diaspora to vote for Mother Russia.
However, in many countries, ex sssr also vote in a large number of other nations, which is proven by high points from televoting !
There are also many other countries in the diaspora !
This is so and there will be nothing to change. end of discussion.

...even the United Kingdom dragged Australia to esc to benefit from them,.. tomorrow will bring New Zeland and the entire commonwealth,
and negotiates with countries that have Diaspora in Europe. Nonces.


2 .You do not care much about the Russians and their emperor. You need to worry about your country that has turned into a cultural anomaly,
which is filled with refugees and enforces an imposed agenda that comes from outside, and which is not the will of most indigenous Swedes.

1) Since Turkey left the contest, Russia tops the diaspora voting, there's no point in denying. Of course it's connected to the fact that Russia also has the largest population amongst the participating countries and thus lots of diaspora, in particular in ex-USSR countries, due to movements of people and colonization. With that said, of course there are other countries aswell that benefits from diaspora voting, but we can't hide from truths?

2) I can care about multiple things at once, I just find it laughable when someone tries to point out Russia as some sort of success story when it's not really the case. With Sweden's problems (and yes they exist), the average Swede still enjoys a much higher living standard than the average Russian... anyways my respond was more a comment to what was said, not really wanting to go further into that topic in this thread.

3) Let's see what the entry will sound like

 

[Carian]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

Yes, I agree with you . I have the same attitude on this issue. However, this does not arise as a question.
The real question is why are you (why me or someone else) ready to discredit a public figure on the basis of its political (or other) affiliation?...
...and especially when they are people who are not from your country... how you can have a problem with that?, unless it is a topic of global politics.
And since that is so, then we are very different. What is good for you is not for me, and vice versa.

Finally someone speaking here with some common sense. ESC fans act as if Russians (and Putin along with them) owed them something, though I cannot understand, what?!?! No matter what they do, there is always a conspiracy theory by a group of people who repeat it for so long that it becomes dogma. It's like a paranoia. When Russia submits their entry (be Yulia or anyone else), there is some great masterplan behind the whole act which is directly orchestrated by Kremel and Putin. Are you serious guys? Do you really think that Putin has time for this? On the other hand, every Russian act is accused of being dumb tool in the hand of politics, or worse, they willingly participate in this grand masterplan to conquer Europe... Are you for real, people?

 

[A-lister]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

Finally someone speaking here with some common sense. ESC fans act as if Russians (and Putin along with them) owed them something, though I cannot understand, what?!?! No matter what they do, there is always a conspiracy theory by a group of people who repeat it for so long that it becomes dogma. It's like a paranoia. When Russia submits their entry (be Yulia or anyone else), there is some great masterplan behind the whole act which is directly orchestrated by Kremel and Putin. Are you serious guys? Do you really think that Putin has time for this? On the other hand, every Russian act is accused of being dumb tool in the hand of politics, or worse, they willingly participate in this grand masterplan to conquer Europe... Are you for real, people?

If Kremlin has the time to hire people to have faux Facebook profiles and even profiles on forums like these, surely they care about the image they want to portray in international events like ESC. Of course Putin, although being a de facto dictator, doesn't have the time to sit and look into such details, but since the public broadcaster is under direct control of Kremlin and the political pressure that comes with it, sure the entries are part of a propaganda scheme. With that said, I do agree that some ESC fans think this scheme is much more complex and detailed than it really is, it's just that they want to portray themselves in a certain light hence so many "peace songs" for instance.

 

[Carian]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

1) Since Turkey left the contest, Russia tops the diaspora voting, there's no point denying. Of course it's connected to the fact that Russia also has the largest population amongst the participating countries and lots of Russian diaspora. With that said, of course there are other countries aswell that benefits from diaspora voting, but we can't hide from truths?

2) I can care about multiple things at once, I just find it laughable when someone tries to point out Russia as some sort of success story when it's not really the case. With Sweden's problems (and yes they exist), the average Swede still enjoys a much higher living standard than the average Russian... anyways my respond was more a comment to what was said, not really wanting to go further into that topic in this thread.

3) Let's see what the entry will sound like

You do not get the success story of Russia? Well, let me put this way. Think of Russia in 1991. Then remember how it was in 2001. And then think how it is today. When you look at this relatively short period of time, 27 years, you can notice one thing. Russia was in collapse in 1991. The situation was even worse in 2001, people were running from Russia. But only in 17 years, one man with his team changed the country by pulling the nation together, modernizing it, investing money in various projects etc. Corruption is being persecuted, interracial crime, religious hatred are basically non-existent today (Russia has more than 20 millions of Muslims!).
So, all this has been achieved in 17 years! Now, as for your comparison to Sweden and your standard of living, well, let me say that the difference in standard of living is not surprising if you consider the fact that Sweden was not in war for more than a century, if you consider that your country did not undergo any fundamental transformation of society, and if you consider that your country until very recently was ethnically and religiously homogenous. Taking all these advantages into account, it would be really embarassing for you and your country if you lived in worse conditions than Russians do, even though they are doing their best for last 17 years to improve things. Besides, do not forget, Russia is faced with constant military threats (they have missile systems of NATO at their borders directed at them), and sanctions for four years. So, is present-day Russia a succes story? Well, for me, it definitively is.

However, let me add one thing. I actually do agree with you about Putin and his riches. There is no doubt that he has taken a lot of money for himself too, however, there is one problem/fault that I find in your reproach. Russia was exploiting its natural resources (oil and gas) long before Putin, so, if there were so many natural riches already in 1990's, how come that Russian people lived in extreme poverty, whereas today when their elites are still stealling, their economy flourishes? Besides, let us stop pretending that in the West everything is just all right. Not so long ago, there was a report about poverty in USA. Do you know that 10% of Americans live in conditions similar to those in 3rd-World countries? People live without sanitations there, their life expectancy is 20 years lower than in the rich American neighbourhoods... Anyways, it's good to be critical towards Putin and Russia, but be sure that you are critical towards your own states, goverments, leaders, singers, people as well - by using the same measures and standards you are using when judging Russia.

 

[Carian]

Re: RUSSIA 2018 - Yulia Samoylova

If Kremlin has the time to hire people to have faux Facebook profiles and even profiles on forums like these, surely they care about the image they want to portray in international events like ESC. Of course Putin, although being a de facto dictator, doesn't have the time to sit and look into such details, but since the public broadcaster is under direct control of Kremlin and the political pressure that comes with it, sure the entries are part of a propaganda scheme. With that said, I do agree that some ESC fans think this scheme is much more complex and detailed than it really is, it's just that they want to portray themselves in a certain light hence so many "peace songs" for instance.

Have you read my previous comment and my critique of French entry this year? Well, if you are right, then I must say that French goverment is obviously also involved in their ESC project in order to "improve" their public image, while informed people know that French are directly responsible for many miseries in this world. That is why, their entry is singing about "refugees", in order to misdirect our attention to consequence, not the origin of the problem. Besides, weren't Swedes those who were writing peace and love songs for those horrible dictatorship states like Russia and Azerbaijan? So, I could say that this is also very hypocritical from you and your country that you are criticizing Russia and similar countries on the one hand, while at the same time you are selling them songs to advance their "propaganda". Is Sweden directly involved with Kremlin? I bet you are.