No Big 5?

[penguinperson]

Yes, what happens when San Marino wins?

hmm ... participation fees

So, we have EBU membership fee and ESC participation fee - I found this:


It's a bit difficult to follow, though. As I understand the ESC participation fee is progressive and the size seem to be adjusted according to an estimated need of the host. What I don't understand where the fees come in to the budget. These contributions have not been mentioned in the Swedish articles about ESC Malmö. I assumed the EBU contribution came from EBU membership fees, but is it instead the participation fees? Anyway, the principle with progressive fees may be rather dangerous for the big 5 in case for example San Marino wins. Then you have to pay for the whole chabarang in participation fee!

I would imagine that the fees go to a pot and for the last few years I doubt if much of it will have been touched. In the eventuality one of these countries win they'd use this money perhaps. If they won back to back it would perhaps be costly I guess how much is paid to the EBU as a seperate fee for other ventures would perhaps be used as well in extreme circumstances. With San Marino Rai have a lot of the shares so I think they'd be less problematic than some.

 

[LalehForWD]

There are definitely participation fees, you can see on page 1 here : http://www.svt.se/melodifestivalen/article150813.svt/BINARY/ESC_2012_Rules_ENG_FINAL.pdf

There's the EBU contribution amount to Baku specified on top on first page.
"Amount of the total Contribution to be financed by the Participating Broadcasters "
5,720,000 CHF => ~4,5 million euro

...

I think the document is a leaked version (a "mistake" by SVT) and it's not likely there will be more of these.

EBU contribution
Baku 2012: 4,5 million euro
Malmö 2013: 1,7 million euro (??? unsure)

Can the EBU contribution be 10% of the total need?

 

[penguinperson]

I think the document is a leaked version (a "mistake" by SVT) and it's not likely there will be more of these.

EBU contribution
Baku 2012: 4,5 million euro
Malmö 2013: 1,7 million euro (??? unsure)

Can the EBU contribution be 10% of the total need?

Probably less as I can see such an organisation taking some off the top

 

[PeterLPZ]

I can remember in 1996, when Germany wasn´t at ESC, the TV ratings for ESC were about 600.000 people - not much in a country with a population about 80 millions. I think, after this, the EBU decided to create the BIG5 rules, because of the TV ratings overall in Europe. In Germany there are normally near 10 millions viewers with ESC. I don´t know how it is in UK, France, Spain or Italy, but if all these countries wouldn´t be in the final, perhaps about 20 - 25 millions viewers would be missing. It sounds much better for EBU if they can say, we have 120 millions of viewers instead of 95 millions around Europe.
That doesn´t mean, that I´m a big fan of the BIG5 rule, but I think, this is also a reason for EBU to keep it. I don´t think, this will change soon.

 

[Leydan]

@PeterLPZ The viewing figures this year from the big 5 were from smallest to highest:

Italy: 1,878,000 (9.78%)
France: 2,740,000 (13.9%)
Spain: 5,369,000 (33.1%)
Germany: 8,210,000 (34%)
United Kingdom: 7,700,000 (35.3%) *Peak high towards end at 9,280,000 + 536,000 on iPlayer (48.4%)

Imagine how much these would fall if none were to make it to the final. I'm sure that would end up with Italy and France withdrawing at least because of how low figures will go.

 

[Impressive]

^This year Italy was 9% because of Marco Mengoni. Next year ratings in Italy is going to be less just like 2012 or 2011.

 

[Leydan]

For a country that has done incredibly well since its return that is very low viewing figure? It wouldn't surprise me if they withdrew again because if the low viewing. I remember reading somewhere that the Italian broadcaster only returned to see if it could get one more win and then withdraw again.

 

[Impressive]

For a country that has done incredibly well since its return that is very low viewing figure? It wouldn't surprise me if they withdrew again because if the low viewing. I remember reading somewhere that the Italian broadcaster only returned to see if it could get one more win and then withdraw again.

Rai doesn't want to promote the show. Before the grand final Rai didn't give attention to Eurovision ads and didn't broadcast the show in main channel. They did it at Rai2. Also when Marco Mengoni joint a TV show (before the show) they didn't talk about Eurovision at all.
I mean, coming back and taking 2nd placing and after them always taking top 10 is nice result imo (especially comporate to other pre qualifiers). Rai can't complain about low attention or bad results (because there is NO bad result) but Rai will not withdraw, etiher. Because (in my opinion) we participate only because of good impression to Europe and that's all.

 

[tuorem]

For a country that has done incredibly well since its return that is very low viewing figure? It wouldn't surprise me if they withdrew again because if the low viewing. I remember reading somewhere that the Italian broadcaster only returned to see if it could get one more win and then withdraw again.

Well, maybe Italy is not impressed by its recent good placings because somehow I believe it was a deal with the EBU : we return to the contest, you give us some high placings. How come Italy has been in top10 three years in a row whereas the other Big fivers still struggle not to end up bottom 5? Well, new potential Italian viewers have to be thrilled to watch this contest. The thing is that it didn't work at all, as the figures show.

I know one usually don't like conspiracy theories and so on, but when some agree on bashing Azerbaijan because "this country cheats all the time" (thanks to the EBU), one doesn't have to expect some other countries to play fair either. The EBU wanted Italy's come back so bad, they got it, but there was a reward to give afterwards. As much as I recognize some quality in their entries, such a striking come back (with the aid of the juries, ofc) seems quite suspicious to me. But it's not the point really.

So to me, I don't think Italy would withdraw so soon, but again I won't be surprised if they decided to withdraw either since their decision isn't related to how well they do but how high the figures are.

 

[Impressive]

Well, maybe Italy is not impressed by its recent good placings because somehow I believe it was a deal with the EBU : we return to the contest, you give us some high placings. How come Italy has been in top10 three years in a row whereas the other Big fivers still struggle not to end up bottom 5? Well, new potential Italian viewers have to be thrilled to watch this contest. The thing is that it didn't work at all, as the figures show.

I am sorry but WHAT?! You saying Italy and EBU have a DEAL!? This is officially crazy and pointless :?

 

[tuorem]

I am sorry but WHAT?! You saying Italy and EBU have a DEAL!? This is officially crazy and pointless :?

I don't say they have. That's my opinion.
And that's also why the idea of them withdrawing regardless of their good placings doesn't seem odd to me.

 

[Leydan]

Seems quite plausible. Considering they went straight into the Big 5 as well. Tbh i haven't liked any of their entries and it always made me wonder how they do well with balkan countries. Italy withdrew as the east began to debut, so its not as if they fitted into it. recent debuting/returning countries have done terrible and Italy is the only one who seems to be exempt from this rule.

 

[Impressive]

^Let me remind you something. There was no song as jazz in 2011 but Raphael Gualazzi's. Things are not different at all with Nina Zilli and her jazz pop song.

This is like a flower in a swamp. Whatever is that always seems beautiful.

 

[tuorem]

Seems quite plausible. Considering they went straight into the Big 5 as well. Tbh i haven't liked any of their entries and it always made me wonder how they do well with balkan countries. Italy withdrew as the east began to debut, so its not as if they fitted into it. recent debuting/returning countries have done terrible and Italy is the only one who seems to be exempt from this rule.

I agree. Everyone here would love to think the contest is all love and stuff, me too, but hey it's not like the EBU was given as an example of fairness and transparency in the first place. In addition to that, we saw this year that with the new voting system, juries can make the final voting they way they want no matter how people voted at home.

Anyway, I find it to difficult to think the EBU would ever consider dissolving the Big 5, even if one of them happens to withdraw.

 

[LalehForWD]

This is like a flower in a swamp. Whatever is that always seems beautiful.

Poetic

 

[tuorem]

^Let me remind you something. There was no song as jazz in 2011 but Raphael Gualazzi's. Things are not different at all with Nina Zilli and her jazz pop song.

This is like a flower in a swamp. Whatever is that always seems beautiful.

With televoting only, Italy woud have entered the top10 once (this year). Juries helped them a lot since their comeback.

 

[CC92]

Jazz is an elitist genre, yes, but to be fair the 'jury' scores for Italy in 2010 and 2011 were really extreme and awkward. It is hard to imagine that these entries would'f fared as excellently had they represented e.g. .

 

[Leydan]

Anyway, I find it to difficult to think the EBU would ever consider dissolving the Big 5, even if one of them happens to withdraw.

Thats what i think. People will continue to complain about it, but nothing will happen. If anything they might add another country to it.

 

[Impressive]

the 'jury' scores for Italy in 2010 and 2011 were really extreme and awkward.

Italy wasn't in the contest back in 2010.

 

[CC92]

^ Sorry! I meant 2011 and 2012.