KAZAKHSTAN 2013 - not taking part

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

I have been to Istanbul already, and the major and historically relevant parts of this city, as well as the Old Town are all entirely in Europe. Also, the Turkish people don't consider themselves as Asians, maybe because the ark of countries around the Black Sea from West to East, as well as Cyprus in the South, are all European... So Turkey would be kind of a geographical wedge into Europe.

But since Azerbaijan is not European at all, I am more comfortable with dismissing them than letting Kazakhstan in. And next we have Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyztan, Tadjikistan and all Ex-SSR are finally in. And the Eurovision spirit leaves forever on in the former USSR, and brings us year by year another overstated 100 million venue and bloated shows. I am really not keen on that.

Walk the streets in Almaty compared to Istanbul and Kazakhstan looks way more Russian/European than Turkey does, as far as visible cultural signs goes. But that's not important.

I don't want any of those you mentioned to join, I want Kazakhstan simply to join in because I believe in the idea that all independent countries located somehow geographically within Europe should be allowed to enter, but I guess I'm alone picturing Eurovision this way then? I don't make a difference between a country being a former USSR one or not. I don't base allowing a country in or not based on neighbor/diaspora voting.

You didn't answer my question, which I guess you're ok with Lebanon entering? A country that is not geographically nor culturally a part of Europe and if you're scared about voting in ESC, they would be the "new Turkey" in terms of winning the diaspora votes.

 

[rajo]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

Sorry, I forgot about Lebanon, but the answer is no. I am not interested in Lebanon, not only because it is so not European but also it is a threat to the participation of Israel, like Azerbaijan is to Armenia.

I also know a place which looks pretty European, New England and Québec for example. Should we invite them too?

Sorry, Eurovision works because we are a family in a certain region. We may have relatives elsewhere, but they are too far away. So, no to Kazakhstan. Almaty is Central Asia and not Europe.... those European portions of Kazakhstan are mostly rural and only designed to make an imaginery line from the Ural to the Caspian Sea. I wouldn't take that into account. There is no designated border of Europe but it is reasonable that Europe ends where there is no or only scarce population when we move into the Eurasian continent.

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

Sorry, I forgot about Lebanon, but the answer is no. I am not interested in Lebanon, not only because it is so not European but also it is a threat to the participation of Israel, like Azerbaijan is to Armenia.

I also know a place which looks pretty European, New England and Québec for example. Should we invite them too?

Sorry, Eurovision works because we are a family in a certain region. We may have relatives elsewhere, but they are too far away. So, no to Kazakhstan. Almaty is Central Asia and not Europe.... those European portions of Kazakhstan are mostly rural and only to designed to make an imaginery line from the Ural to the Caspian Sea. I wouldn't take that into account.

Australia is also kinda European, but obviously NO to them aswell. I was talking strictly geographical.

Yes, Almaty is in the Asian part of the country, but it doesn't change facts. I mean would you decline the idea of Eurovision being held in Ankara if Turkey were about to win again? Because that's a possibility. It's true it's closer to Europe, but just like Almaty or Astana it's not actually Europe.

Geographical Europe is what it is, so it has nothing to do with subjective taste here, those parts are de facto part of the European continent.

 

[rajo]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

We could have a debate on principles about Turkey, and you would learn that my wrench would be kept within a limit. But I got used to Turkey and we have countries in which are equally or far more Eastern than Turkey like the Caucasus countries (+3 hours to CET!), or Israel and even Cyprus.

So, the idea of an Ankara Song Contest doesn't bother me at all. But that won't ever happen, since Istanbul is far more tourist-friendly.

Let's be reasonable - where in Kazakhstan would you like to host the Contest? Not really in the allegedly European parts. You have to go into the deepest Central Asia to Almaty or Astana.

Ask the few Kazakhs living there if they have any affiliation with Europe. I guess they don't have..... Just because of a couple of people in the nomansland between Europe and Asia I wouldn't invite a Central Asian country to join Eurovision.

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

We could have a debate on principles about Turkey, and you would learn that my wrench would be kept within a limit. But I got used to Turkey and we have countries in which are equally or far more Eastern than Turkey like the Caucasus countries (+3 hours to CET!), or Israel and even Cyprus.

So, the idea of an Ankara Song Contest doesn't bother me at all. But that won't ever happen, since Istanbul is far more tourist-friendly.

Let's be reasonable - where in Kazakhstan would you like to host the Contest? Not really in the allegedly European parts. You have to go in to the deepest Central Asia.

Ask the few Kazakhs living there if they have any affiliation with Europe. I guess they don't have..... Just because of a couple of people in the nomansland between Europe and Asia I wouldn't invite a Central Asian country to join Eurovision.

Obviously it would be held in Almaty or Astana (but probably Almaty). A city that looks very much like a larger Russian city (but richer on the surface).

I dunno, I still believe that all geographical Europe should be allowed to take part, regardless of the amount of people living there or the actual geographical amount of the country's total area.

We just have to agree to disagree

 

[rajo]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

So just because a depopulated portion of Kazakhstan sneaked in into the nomansland of Europe and Asia, you want to bring definite Central Asian host cities to Eurovision? Seriously?

DISAGREE

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

So just because a depopulated portion of Kazakhstan sneaked in into the nomansland of Europe and Asia, you want to bring definite Central Asian host cities to Eurovision? Seriously?

DISAGREE

Seriously yes! And it didn't "sneak in", the continent is what it is.

Anyways, this comes from someone who would rather add Angola in the contest

Yes let's do that I doubt they'll enter though.

 

[rajo]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

Our continent is undefined when it comes to borders with Asia. There are many theories where Europe ends and Asia begins, but none of them includes relevant portions of the Kazakhi population. I'm so sorry!

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

Our continent is undefined when it comes to borders with Asia. There are many theories where Europe ends and Asia begins, but none of them includes relevant portions of the Kazakhi population. I'm so sorry!

Don't be sorry According to most current definition of the continent, Kazakhstan indeed has a European part (just like Turkey has and the Caucasian countries). I already said I couldn't care less about the population, I mean that could be said about the Caucasian countries and Turkey aswell then.

 

[rajo]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

Welcome to the geography class:

there are three overland boundaries subject to definition:
between Asia and Africa (dividing Afro-Eurasia into Africa and Eurasia): at the Isthmus of Suez
between Asia and Europe (dividing Eurasia): along the Bosporus, the Caucasus and the Urals (historically also north of the Caucasus, along the Kuma–Manych Depression or along the Don River)
between North America and South America (dividing the Americas): the Isthmus of Panama

The United Nations Statistics Division lists transcontinental countries under the continent in which they have the majority of their population:[17]
listed as part of Eastern Europe: Russian Federation
listed as part of Central Asia: Kazakhstan
listed as part of Western Asia: Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkey and Cyprus

 

[rajo]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

Don't be sorry According to most current definition of the continent, Kazakhstan indeed has a European part (just like Turkey has and the Caucasian countries). I already said I couldn't care less about the population, I mean that could be said about the Caucasian countries and Turkey aswell then.

I think the Turkish population in Europe is not irrelevant. Istanbul has more people than Austria and Switzerland combined.

And for the caucasian countries, they are just lucky EBU let them in and they are still close enough to Europe.

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

^
Really, I don't want to argue over this. No need, we just have a different opinion that's all.

I mean we can both pick and choose the definition that fits our own opinion here, there's no right or wrong.

 

[rajo]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

So you think we can handle Eurovision at 2 AM local time in Astana? Is that reasonable?

And since Russia extends to the farest east until Alaska, should Russia be granted a host city like Vladivostok??

 

[A-lister]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

So you think we can handle Eurovision at 2 AM local time in Astana? Is that reasonable?

And since Russia extends to the farest east until Alaska, should Russia be granted a host city like Vladivostok??

Just as with ESC in Baku, they put it in a time where the viewer concentration is (CET), so I wouldn't worry about that.. it'll most probably would start at 21:00 CET still.

The problem is more the Kazakh viewers and maybe the delegations, but not for the overall ESC viewer.

 

[Yamarus]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

The problem is more the Kazakh viewers and maybe the delegations, but not for the overall ESC viewer.

To me that's a huge problem already.

 

[NikkiBoy]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

broadcated this years ESC, so maybe they debut in the future ?

 

[CPV4931]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

I hope for a debut of Kazakhstan... it would be interesting to see some music from Kazakhstan.
But on the other hand, as someone above said, it won´t make much sense to host Eurovision in Astana at 2 am.

 

[Quent91]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

broadcated this years ESC, so maybe they debut in the future ?

also broadcast it. It doens't mean they'll ever enter it

 

[Sean]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

I'm pretty sure that if it was such a problem for Kazakhstan to host that far East they would bring the contest forward an hour, it's not like it'd create any problems starting at 7pm over here instead of 8

I genuinely think that Kazakhstan will join this year (alongside Liechtenstein)

 

[Rusch]

Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2013

also broadcast it. It doens't mean they'll ever enter it

I think the Australians would enter if they are allowed to do so. Kazakhstan is also not Europe, but far more near than Australia.