Italy ITALY 2015 - Il Volo - Grande amore

[Bradamante]

I was there on the press center, I've heard their rehearsals and I have to be honest, this one of the jury rehearsal has been their worst performance, sadly (I remember that I thought "Ok, this is not good like their other rehearsals but so far it's better than the other competitors so they will manage a good placement").

However, like I wrote, there were little defects (the only one I remember: Piero had a problem with the timing on his first verse and he started to sing before). Who wrote that they were "off key" tells lies.

Uhm, so they were not off key, ok. Timing... I must hear it, but it doesn't seem to me so bad. It is strange, and I think if happened is due to the equipment. Maybe the ear set had problem.

 

[Uto]

I do feel bad for them, and commend them for reacting so maturely to the situation. With that being said, them almost losing San Remo due to a poor jury score was, in retrospect, a sign. I'm not sure why professional juries can't get on board with Grande Amore, perhaps because popera hasn't been particularly trendy in Europe since about 2010, maybe because the song is, fundamentally, quite simple, or maybe because popera tends to be quite divisive, but either way I'm sure there's a legitimately good reason for it.

I think you nailed it when you hypothesized that the song is fundamentally quite simple. I have never liked the Italian entry a lot exactly because of that reason and I tend to be on board with the jury votes most of the time. The song impresses just because of the pop-opera style. Just about any song done i that style will sound bombastic and masterful, but it's the juries job to look under the hood and there's nothing there to be found. The song just isn't particularly great. Now, the counter argument would be why the juries didn't punish Sweden, but I doubt a lot of people have actually properly listened to the Swedish song. That thing may not sound very original in texture, but the composition is wonderful. It's actually quite a complex song and the same goes for Russia or for instance Latvia. Compared to them the Italian song really sounds rather basic, completely relying on the bombast of the vocal delivery.

Nonetheless, they seem to be taking the attitude of "We won the televote! What a bonus!" rather than "The juries destroyed our chances of winning", which is really good of them, and if they're moving on and making the most of it, hopefully we fans can too rather than dwelling on it for a whole year.

It was much the same last year with The Common Linnets and it's the best road to take. Winning doesn't really matter all that much, it's about getting yourself known and I think Il Volo did just that. In for instance two years time I will likely have trouble remembering the Russian entry, but I will still know Il Volo. From last year I have to dig to remember more than just Conchita and TCL. Some Balkan ballad called Moj Svijet I think springs to mind. That's about it.

 

[Carian]

It seems to me quite impossible: they did well the previous rehearsals. It is a song that they never sang off key, and they know by heart. Come on. I want to hear this performance. Is there any video available? Until now, I could not find any. Thank you.

I also read live reports about Piero singing out of the tune during juries rehearsal. However, he wasn't the only one, even if true. Also one of the Armenian singers sang badly, but were Armenians as screwed by the juries as Italy? No matter what argument has been brough up here, I am not convinced by any of them that this year, voting wasn't rigged. Imo, it was rigged badly, and the worst part is that Mans (regardless of accusations about his song being plagiarism etc.) didn't deserve to go into ESC history as one of the most controversial winners ever. EBU has to reconsider many many things...

 

[Krishoes]

Also one of the Armenian singers sang badly, but were Armenians as screwed by the juries as Italy?

And Vaidas from even didn't sing a part of their song... but many jurors put them over .

 

[Carian]

I think you nailed it when you hypothesized that the song is fundamentally quite simple. I have never liked the Italian entry a lot exactly because of that reason and I tend to be on board with the jury votes most of the time. The song impresses just because of the pop-opera style. Just about any song done i that style will sound bombastic and masterful, but it's the juries job to look under the hood and there's nothing there to be found. The song just isn't particularly great. Now, the counter argument would be why the juries didn't punish Sweden, but I doubt a lot of people have actually properly listened to the Swedish song. That thing may not sound very original in texture, but the composition is wonderful. It's actually quite a complex song and the same goes for Russia or for instance Latvia. Compared to them the Italian song really sounds rather basic, completely relying on the bombast of the vocal delivery.



It was much the same last year with The Common Linnets and it's the best road to take. Winning doesn't really matter all that much, it's about getting yourself known and I think Il Volo did just that. In for instance two years time I will likely have trouble remembering the Russian entry, but I will still know Il Volo. From last year I have to dig to remember more than just Conchita and TCL. Some Balkan ballad called Moj Svijet I think springs to mind. That's about it.

And Lena's winning song in 2010 that juries put first was a masterpiece and Lena the best singer that evening?!?!?! Come on, juries seem to have no clue what quality song is nor what singer is actually accomplished. Besides, you cannot take your own taste as a proof that juries are right. Finally, the debate is not about whether Italy's song was/is good, but about the results and voting system... Italy this year is only the most blatant example of the unfairness of this system, but surely not the only. I bet if we dig dipper into results, we could find other "victims" too. And many counterexamples that confirm the main problems pointed out in this ongoing debate in this thread. For instance, though I love Israel and its entries, this year, the guy sang really badly according to my own taste and ears, but he still managed to pull off a pretty decent number of points with juries... Also Latvia... Yes, she sang well, but come on people, half of her song was nothing but repeating WOH-HA-HA-WOH or something of this sort. Was that really the peak of musical creativity? To sum up, juries were a joke this year, and none will convince me of the contrary

 

[Krishoes]

And Lena's winning song in 2010 that juries put first was a masterpiece and Lena the best singer that evening?!?!?!

And the 2nd place for in 2011

 

[Carian]

And Vaidas from even didn't sing a part of their song... but many jurors put them over .

Krishoes, I bet we can come up with hosts of examples that will prove our point... But, hey, yes, Italy was robbed, and Sweden won. Nothing will change about this, but I am annoyed by people that still try to convince me that Sweden's victory was fair and square, as it was put on Wiwibloggs... Perhaps, Mediterranean countries should form our own bloc along with the Balkan and next year outvote Nordic ones What do you say: from Portugal to Turkey plus Israel and Malta? And if Bolgaria returns, they are on the board too That would have been hilarious, when Portugal would receive only 12, 10 and 8 points from all of us, since they are most horrendously overlooked ESC country in its all history! Not deservingly...

 

[greece]

And Lena's winning song in 2010 that juries put first was a masterpiece and Lena the best singer that evening?!?!?! Come on, juries seem to have no clue what quality song is nor what singer is actually accomplished. Besides, you cannot take your own taste as a proof that juries are right. Finally, the debate is not about whether Italy's song was/is good, but about the results and voting system... Italy this year is only the most blatant example of the unfairness of this system, but surely not the only. I bet if we dig dipper into results, we could find other "victims" too. And many counterexamples that confirm the main problems pointed out in this ongoing debate in this thread. For instance, though I love Israel and its entries, this year, the guy sang really badly according to my own taste and ears, but he still managed to pull off a pretty decent number of points with juries... Also Latvia... Yes, she sang well, but come on people, half of her song was nothing but repeating WOH-HA-HA-WOH or something of this sort. Was that really the peak of musical creativity? To sum up, juries were a joke this year, and none will convince me of the contrary

But the problem is that at least 2 people from each country's jury have nothing to do with music. They are probably working at the radio or at a music channel. So don't really believe that these "juries" are the most professionals in music and know what a good song is or who has a good voice. The judge from the whole packet (dance number,performance etc)

 

[Uto]

And Lena's winning song in 2010 that juries put first was a masterpiece and Lena the best singer that evening?!?!?!

I don't think it is fair to compare that year, which was extremely weak, to this year, which was extremely strong. At the time, Lena brought a very fresh approach with a no frills pop song that was very much the fashion of the time and a vibrant personality to boot. Yes that song was rather weak and she would probably have struggled to get out of the semis with that this year, but those were different times. I do agree that the juries were a bit too keen on her.

Come on, juries seem to have no clue what quality song is nor what singer is actually accomplished.

They tend to have a good grasp, having worked in the music industry.

Besides, you cannot take your own taste as a proof that juries are right.

I can and I do.

Finally, the debate is not about whether Italy's song was/is good, but about the results and voting system... Italy this year is only the most blatant example of the unfairness of this system, but surely not the only. I bet if we dig dipper into results, we could find other "victims" too. And many counterexamples that confirm the main problems pointed out in this ongoing debate in this thread.

I don't care what you think this debate is about or not. I made a post in which I provided my views in reaction to something someone said. It is not your place to decide what I should post about or not.

For instance, though I love Israel and its entries, this year, the guy sang really badly according to my own taste and ears, but he still managed to pull off a pretty decent number of points with juries... Also Latvia... Yes, she sang well, but come on people, half of her song was nothing but repeating WOH-HA-HA-WOH or something of this sort. Was that really the peak of musical creativity? To sum up, juries were a joke this year, and none will convince me of the contrary

With all respect, but I think this is just nonsense. Israel made a very disjointed song work by charming their way out of it. That's hard. The guy sung extremely well given the theatrics he was also providing. I distinctly remember Estonia 2014, where a dance routine made sure the singer never really got her notes to stick and although the song and the staging should have seen her through to the final, but she botched it. Israel prospered instead. That stuff gets rewarded.

And then there's Latvia. That song was the most outstanding vocal performance (except for France obviously) and that song was extremely hard, with lots of very small embellishments in the vocals. The music was expertly put together and the staging was sublime. I don't think there's a lot to talk about here if you start slagging off Latvia really.

 

[GWTW1939]

With all respect, but I think this is just nonsense. Israel made a very disjointed song work by charming their way out of it. That's hard. The guy sung extremely well given the theatrics he was also providing. I distinctly remember Estonia 2014, where a dance routine made sure the singer never really got her notes to stick and although the song and the staging should have seen her through to the final, but she botched it. Israel prospered instead. That stuff gets rewarded.

charming their way out of it :? So then its not about the song then but other things Nadav even at his best still hit bum notes left and right yet still was placed top 10 with the jury...above Estonia, that tells me all I need to know about this jury. Also if the song was that disjointed then it never should have been ranked as high as it was. And Tjana perfected singing and dancing so well that people thought she was lip-syncing, so she didn't botch anything she just didn't get televoters. The fact that Israel made it and Estonia 2014 didn't only proved their more receptive to cute males who dance then females.

This year it seems the jury went out of their way to rank uptempos higher because of the criticism they received last year when most of the highest ranking songs were ballads. That's also probably where this "hit potential" bullshit also appeared. Yet another agenda from the jury that proves it wasn't about the song

 

[Carian]

I don't think it is fair to compare that year, which was extremely weak, to this year, which was extremely strong. At the time, Lena brought a very fresh approach with a no frills pop song that was very much the fashion of the time and a vibrant personality to boot. Yes that song was rather weak and she would probably have struggled to get out of the semis with that this year, but those were different times. I do agree that the juries were a bit too keen on her.

They tend to have a good grasp, having worked in the music industry.

I can and I do.

I don't care what you think this debate is about or not. I made a post in which I provided my views in reaction to something someone said. It is not your place to decide what I should post about or not.

With all respect, but I think this is just nonsense. Israel made a very disjointed song work by charming their way out of it. That's hard. The guy sung extremely well given the theatrics he was also providing. I distinctly remember Estonia 2014, where a dance routine made sure the singer never really got her notes to stick and although the song and the staging should have seen her through to the final, but she botched it. Israel prospered instead. That stuff gets rewarded.

And then there's Latvia. That song was the most outstanding vocal performance (except for France obviously) and that song was extremely hard, with lots of very small embellishments in the vocals. The music was expertly put together and the staging was sublime. I don't think there's a lot to talk about here if you start slagging off Latvia really.

My reply to your dissecting of my post is: meh, whatever. However, I will add only that if you are entitled to outspeak your mind (and your subjective impressions of songs), then hella don't prohibit me saying that Latvia was for me nothing but a pile of repetative moaning of a good singer. Regardless how perfectly and artistically she moaned, okey? Have a nice day and see you around Uto.

 

[RogerEpiales]

I also read live reports about Piero singing out of the tune during juries rehearsal. However, he wasn't the only one, even if true. Also one of the Armenian singers sang badly, but were Armenians as screwed by the juries as Italy? No matter what argument has been brough up here, I am not convinced by any of them that this year, voting wasn't rigged. Imo, it was rigged badly, and the worst part is that Mans (regardless of accusations about his song being plagiarism etc.) didn't deserve to go into ESC history as one of the most controversial winners ever. EBU has to reconsider many many things...

Armenia was put 22nd by the jury vs 11th by televote. So yes, i'd say Armenia was also punnished by the jury for what could be a bad performance.

 

[Pawhlen]

I can say to you all that I voted for this song (is anyone surprised? )

So it feels a bit strange that we ended up winning instead.

But something that I have been thinking off is if Il Volo would have gotten that much televotes if they had performed earlier? I mean the second half of the final were almost only ballads and were probably the one that was the most special of all those ballads (in a positive way) That and performing last might have been a key part in the televotes they gained

Because if or would had performed as #27, they could have ended with simular result (since all three were the huge favorites going into the final, probably lost a few votes because of all the ballads coming after each other)

I´m not trying to say that got that many televotes ONLY because of the running order but I´m pretty sure that it has played a little part in it too.

 

[Carian]

Armenia was put 22nd by the jury vs 11th by televote. So yes, i'd say Armenia was also punnished by the jury for what could be a bad performance.

Thanx for correcting me. However, it really doesn't matter any longer. Today I've learnt that there is no ESC Santa Clos... I feel really stupid today. Have fun, see you around.

 

[Krishoes]

We can say many things, actually everybody is talking about possibilities. The running order played is role (for what reason our beloved Eurovision contestants are so happy when they pick the second and not the first half?), however only now the last place became a good placement in the running order, before saturday it was called "death zone" and many people was cheering for that (not you, obviously XD).

However, beyond every possibilites, we are in front of the better result at the televote since Rybak (I've read today on Eurovision.de: 78.2% of votes!). The difference between and the other is huge, that's a thing that cannot arrive only for a good placement in the running order. Please friends, let us at least the joy of being the choice of European viewers

 

[Carian]

I can say to you all that I voted for this song (is anyone surprised? )

So it feels a bit strange that we ended up winning instead.

But something that I have been thinking off is if Il Volo would have gotten that much televotes if they had performed earlier? I mena the second half of the final were almost only ballads and were probably the one that was the most special of all those ballads (in a positive way) That and performing last might have been a key part in the televotes they gained

Because if or would had performed as #27, they could have ended with simular result (since all three were the huge favorites going into the final)

I´m not trying to say that got that many televotes ONLY because of the running order but I´m pretty sure that it has played a little part in it too.

By the time Italy was singing, my mother fell asleep... But she did see Sweden. She woke up only before voting, when all breaks were over. So, I wouldn't say that the position of the last act of the night was to Italy's advantage.

 

[Pawhlen]

We can say many things, actually everybody is talking about possibilities. The running order played is role (for what reason our beloved Eurovision contestants are so happy when they pick the second and not the first half?), however only now the last place became a good placement in the running order, before saturday it was called "death zone" and many people was cheering for that (not you, obviously XD).

However, beyond every possibilites, we are in front of the better result at the televote since Rybak (I've read today on Eurovision.de: 72.8% of votes!). The difference between and the other is huge, that's a thing that cannot arrive only for a good placement in the running order. Please friends, let us at least the joy of being the choice of European viewers

I´m not against that you won the televote, in fact it was well deserved. But since you were one of the huge favorites, it is not that surprising that the speculations begin to flood (it would have been the same if or had closed the show and ending up with a great win in the televote)

 

[Krishoes]

Probably, we will never know the truth, won with a so called bad placement, maybe wouldn't have achieved the same result in the televoting with a last place in the running order (according to me Loreen was many steps above the others on 2012 and she didn't manage a result so good with the televote, so it's not so obvious that if we change the addenda the sum changes). However, it's useless I really hope to know you in Stockholm!

 

[Pawhlen]

Probably, we will never know the truth, won with a so called bad placement, maybe wouldn't have achieved the same result in the televoting with a last place in the running order (according to me Loreen was many steps above the others on 2012 and she didn't manage a result so good with the televote, so it's not so obvious that if we change the addenda the sum changes). However, it's useless I really hope to know you in Stockholm!

Let´s see where SVT will place the contest next year, but I will be there

 

[DerMoment1608]

However, beyond every possibilites, we are in front of the better result at the televote since Rybak (I've read today on Eurovision.de: 78.2% of votes!). The difference between and the other is huge, that's a thing that cannot arrive only for a good placement in the running order. Please friends, let us at least the joy of being the choice of European viewers

Not to dismiss your huge front-running regarding televoting points, just to point out that this number is misleading: They divided the achieved points by the possible number of points a country could achieve (39x12) [Probably, they didn't tell what they did do, but you get the result if you divide 366/468...], not by all the points given in televoting (39x12 + 39x10..) and neither they did divide the votes for Italy by the all votes. So this number seems much more impressive and doesn't indicate that you got 78,2% of the votes and the other countries 21,8%. With the same way of calculating you'd get 61,1% for Russia and 59,6% for Sweden (and 75,0% for Rybak)

And actually this is not totally right, as we had only 38 countries with televoting, so it would be 80,3%. And 76,8% for Rybak, as the Norwegian voting couldn't get counted in 2009. (Btw, I just realized that Conchita got nearly as many percentel points as Rybak, 76,2%)