Live EUROVISION SONG CONTEST 2022 FINAL DISCUSSION

[Sean]

Please use this thread to discuss rehearsals in general and also to follow along with all of the live shows in Turin.

Matt, Melanie and Roy from the ESC United team will be LIVE in Turin over the coming days, with yours truly joining them on the ground in the coming days.

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[aef]

Honestly we don’t know what the result would have looked without the war. Can we just all agree that would have got only between 200-300 points in the televoting then? I think that’s pretty clear. As for that it would have been a way more close result.

I think that was also the biggest painpoint of yesterday - the result being extremely anticlimactic after televote announcement

 

[Zerocalcare]

Well, i woke up to Spanisfans accusing Kalush of being Nazi's, so you're not that far off.

https://twitter.com/diIemmx/status/1525641629654188033

Good to know there's no rock bottom when it comes to dignity...x

Italy's fanbase is still worse though :-)

I don't know what the Italian fanbase said but I can actually give you the links of many sites where the comments have been balanced and respectful. We Italians have awarded all the favorites for the victory. Unlike what one would have us believe, we do not have, apart from the usual bad apples that exist in all countries, a humoral and toxic fandom. Besides, we didn't need it: we didn't care about the victory but the minimum goal of the Top 10.

In fact, I have read here and elsewhere many fans shouting in frustration at the "worst edition ever" (criticism from when the first kinetic sun bolt was mounted). I smile thinking that one day, when one of these nations hosts the ESC they will get multiplied by two the poison they spit earlier. Perhaps in that moment they will understand how we felt when it was we who were mocked and offended. Our only sin is the desire to dare and give Europe a spectacle outside the box. I saw an excellent test of Italy considering it hosted its first modern ESC. Obviously, we have to improve and we will improve. The audience ratings, increased tourism and the rise in popularity of the ESC in Italy have made Rai understand that it is a greedy business. In the next editions I would not be surprised by other Italian victories.

 

[midnightsun]

His performance was soo over the top, I don’t know why any casual viewer should have liked this and voted for it.

I voted 5x and I liked it SO MUCH!
I love melancholic songs. My top 100 favourite songs ever in this world consist of probably 98 songs in minor.
I‘m more the type for the sad songs (which is funny because in real life I‘m a pretty optimistic, extrovert person).

 

[Loindici]

Why what do you think is going to happen

I may worry too much, however I feel the result/conclusion of Eurovision 2022 will bring more harm than good for the publicity/reputation of the contest.

Let's say since they won Ukraine will automatically participate in 2023 and the war is still happening next year (which I STRONGLY hope not). If they got a good televote score, would it be a justification that Ukraine's song is good, or a justification that the war still helped Ukraine so much with the televote? Would other countries find competing enjoyable since they probably feel Ukraine will have another huge chance to win?

Sorry, but I can see this win being a much sharper double-edged sword for Ukraine or for the contest.

 

[midnightsun]

And what is the ranking without Ukraine is concerned…

… you can not simply take Ukraine‘s (too many) points away and say the ranking would be the same. You never know a.) where their points would be going to instead and b.) whether the high ranked countries did get many points BECAUSE people/juries wanted an antipole to them and thought who had the best chances.

 

[hijirio]

How low though did they drop? Genuine question as I don't recall ever seeing the country sitting anywhere but near the top bunch of songs with the odds, and I tend to look at them quite regularly out of curiosity. Even if Ukraine dropped, how dramatic was it exactly? Like a couple places or many?

And regardless of the events going on right now, and pointing out the obvious, the song is still well in reach of being a winner with those at home. Exclude Ukraine and the public's favourite was Moldova, a song which was (correct me if I'm wrong) near the bottom of almost every single fan poll. Ukraine vs Moldova.. Let's pretend for a moment there wasn't a war. Ask any fan which song would win in a televote battle. Maybe I'm crazy here but I think most would say Ukraine besides a small handful that always had faith in Moldova doing a Moldova. Eurovision is full of surprises.


Edit: And wait, there's more. I just found this post from AlekS. On the day Kalush Orchestra were selected, the odds for Ukraine started to rise again. https://www.escunited.com/forum/thr...rchestra-stefania.22322/page-103#post-2204324 The odds dropped when Alina stepped down and it was uncertain Ukraine would even have an entry, no?

Ukraine slided down a few places after Kalush being chosen as the representative on Feb 22, probably it would go down even more but the same night on Feb 22 Putin recognized Donbas breakway regions, which was a huge news and a harbinger of the incoming occupation which happened 3 days later. This gave Ukraine a sudden momentum in the bookies and taking them all the way to the first place in the bookies.

Yes, you're right, Eurovision is full of surprises. I can also claim that maybe France would have come top 3 with if they performed in the 2nd half. You simply cannot refute this claim, but it's still highly unlikely, right?

 

[Deleted member 12761]

Last night really showed us why we need the juries. I don't always agree with their decisions (Serbia deserved more. Same with Poland) and some of them (especially in the east) are too political at times but their result last night was overall good and better imo than the televote. And the juries definitely don't just vote for ballads as we have seen last night. UK was their winner. Spain got multiple 12 points. Czech Rep. did better with juries than with televoters.

After this year though there needs to be a big reform of the voting system. The televote shouldn't be the only way to measure the publics opinion. There must be another way. I also think they should show the points with the total rankings of the country and not just the 12 countries. So the highest points would be 25 and not 12. The juries also need to be reformed. 5 members are not enough. Or make a united EBU jury. The juries also need to be more open for "interesting" music acts like Serbia, France etc. It feels like they don't give these type of acts any chances. The juries are too harsh to experimental songs.

 

[hijirio]

Honestly we don’t know what the result would have looked without the war. Can we just all agree that would have got only between 200-300 points in the televoting then? I think that’s pretty clear. As for that it would have been a way more close result.

I think that was also the biggest painpoint of yesterday - the result being extremely anticlimactic after televote announcement

I think jury votes for Ukraine were also quite bloated. Stefania is definitely not a jury friendly song, it would never come top 4 if they represented elsewhere. Jury would never place a folk song with rap parts anywhere near top 10 lol.

Especially receiving 4x12 points from Baltic juries + Poland was very political and suspish.

 

[midnightsun]

I also think Ukraine got some extra points due to their current situation BUT I have no doubt they would have been in the top 10, most probably even top 5 anyway.

And really, is there someone who really wants to argue over these extra points? What’s worse? Ukraine getting those extra points and the love from all over Europe to see our support and make them happy or your country losing 1 or 2 places?!

 

[0scar]

And really, is there someone who really wants to argue over these extra points? What’s worse? Ukraine getting those extra points and the love from all over Europe to see our support and make them happy or your country losing 1 or 2 places?!

That's a false dilemma

 

[Hikaru]

I might not be happy with the result with Ukraine winning, but I can say that I have witnessed something I haven't, that I, as a Spaniard, I have felt the dream, and just because of that I won't forget this year contest.

Chanel is amazing, she has awaken the dream in a whole generation of Spanish youngsters!!!

 

[Teaisloveable]

I might not be happy with the result with Ukraine winning, but I can say that I have witnessed something I haven't, that I, as a Spaniard, I have felt the dream, and just because of that I won't forget this year contest.

Chanel is amazing, she has awaken the dream in a whole generation of Spanish youngsters!!!

It is so nice seeing this surge in success from the big 5 countries.
With Italy's success, France coming second last year and Spain and the UK doing so well this year.

It is humbling knowing that even with automatic qualification, the UK and Spain would have sailed through the semi finals.

Hopefully the 2020s will see a resurgence of past success seen in our countries!

 

[Uto]

In fact, I have read here and elsewhere many fans shouting in frustration at the "worst edition ever" (criticism from when the first kinetic sun bolt was mounted). I smile thinking that one day, when one of these nations hosts the ESC they will get multiplied by two the poison they spit earlier. Perhaps in that moment they will understand how we felt when it was we who were mocked and offended. Our only sin is the desire to dare and give Europe a spectacle outside the box. I saw an excellent test of Italy considering it hosted its first modern ESC. Obviously, we have to improve and we will improve. The audience ratings, increased tourism and the rise in popularity of the ESC in Italy have made Rai understand that it is a greedy business. In the next editions I would not be surprised by other Italian victories.

I agree with this. Going after Rotterdam the bar had been set too high. The Dutch are simply great at this sort of stuff. Our cuisine is beyond sub-par, we can't do sprezzatura, but we can do giant shows almost perfectly without even trying. Italy was on the learning curve here. ESC has breakneck speed, you need contingency plans for everything, it's not San Remo where you can just sit back with a glass of wine and let it all unfold. I am as guilty as the next for laughing at the failure of the Italians to get things right, but in the end I thought they produced three perfectly decent shows and while there is much room for improvement, they also managed to do some things particularly well. I loved the hosts and their interactions for instance. I also thought the turquoise carpet ceremony was very well done. As much as Italy has to learn we can still take away some lessons from the things Italy nailed.

 

[popavapeur]

please someone volunteers to make a change.org shit to make the juries bigger, like up to 10. and televoting counting for 60% instead of 50. I'll be your first signature (I'm wondering if I should make it tbh)

and what the f with 6 juries having a ""weird"" result ? even one is too much !

 

[0scar]

God I honestly don't know how to feel about all this
First of all: congratulations on winning Eurovision!

Stefania was certainly not my favourite song this contest and that makes me feel a little lost for words. It's completely understandable that Europe voted for Ukraine in these times, and the win is deserved, but I can't help but think that it would have not received THAT many points from the public. It would be foolish to believe otherwise. And in a contest that is supposed to pick the best song as their winner..
Of course that's also sour grapes talking as I would have loved to see or winning.

Meh I don't really know, as I said congratulations to Ukraine with the victory

Some other remarks:
deserved more
deserved more - so proud of S10 though! I honestly expected more but I guess she got a little lost in between Spain and Ukraine.
both were great!! As I said I hoped one of them would win but a second and third place is a great victory for these countries.
I love that the public supported this

oh and

I still hate EVERYTHING about this

 

[Zerocalcare]

I think jury votes for Ukraine were also quite bloated. Stefania is definitely not a jury friendly song, it would never come top 4 if they represented elsewhere. Jury would never place a folk song with rap parts anywhere near top 10 lol.

Especially receiving 4x12 points from Baltic juries + Poland was very political and suspish.

However, aside from the war, it's good that the jury showed a change in their judgment. Here many complain that the juries reward sad ballads and perfect voices and when the jury rewards originality do we disagree?

 

[ESC94]

Any news about tv ratings?? Especially in it would be interesting to know how many people watched it yesterday.

 

[Zerocalcare]

Any news about tv ratings?? Especially in it would be interesting to know how many people watched it yesterday.

First semifinal:

5.507.000 for 27% of share

Second semifinal:

5.538.000 for 27.7% of share

Final:

6.590.000 for 41.9% of share.

If we calculate that Sanremo has an average of 10 million spectators per evening. We have seen huge numbers! The ESC passion is growing in Italy.

 

[GermanBango]

Overall I enjoyed the final. Sure the production was a bit ... messy here and there but honestly I`ve seen worse. I felt entertained and for a few hours I was able to forget about the stress of everyday life so goal archived, I`d say.

 

[AlienSoul]

Given Australia's televote results since Dami Im, I think when SBS' current Eurovision contract expires they should not bother to renew, it seems that we have outstayed our welcome.