Eurovision 2020 Online - The Rules

[Eurovision]

The Eurovision 2020 Online Dates


Semi-Final 1: Wednesday, 8 April 2020
Semi-Final 2: Friday, 10 April 2020
Final: Saturday, 25 April 2020


The voting in the Semi-Finals:
from 23 March to 5 April (2 weeks)
The voting for in the Final:
from 11 April to 19 April (9 days)​

In order to keep the Eurovision spirit alive and well, we intend to hold a full vote of our community here on the forum and enjoy what could have happened in May.

The Rules​

The Jury


APPLY HERE TO BE A JUROR

1. Every country's jury has 5 members. Anyone can join a jury before it is complete.

2. As a member of jury you can only take part from the country you are from. If your country has reached the 5 members max, you can still take part but you will be allocated to one of the countries listed in rule 3 (below).

3. If you are from a country outside of the participants of 2020 (USA, Brazil, Indonesia, Turkey etc) then you can take part from countries with very few or no members, these include:

• Iceland
• Belarus
• Norway
• Czech Republic
• Georgia
• Malta
• Latvia
• Israel

4. During the voting you rank each song in the semi from 1 to 16 (if you vote in the 1st Semi-final), from 1 to 17 (if you vote in the 2nd Semi-final) not including your own country or from 1 to 17-18 (if you vote as jury of Big5 or The Netherlands), and then from 1 to 25 in the final (if your country participates) or 1 to 26 if it does not participate in the final. You must send your votes to your head of Jury.


Head of Jury

1. Each country will have 1 Head of Jury who you will send your votes to.

2. As Head of Jury, you are responsible for combing all of the ranks to create 1 set of 12, 10, 8-1 votes from the jury and then sending these votes to the main host by the specified deadline. Only be a HoJ if you’re a fully active member of the forum with time. We don’t want to be chasing the HoJ up to send votes.

3. After all 5 members cast their votes to the HOJ, the average place of each country will be counted, the highest ranked country gets 12 points and so on by Eurovision system. These points as well as the spreadsheet showing the juries full breakdown must be sent to the Eurovision account.

4. All details of your juries voting must be kept private to your jury until after the final results, or you will be disqualified. However, jurors can share how they voted with other members of their own jury. For example if you’re in the British Jury, you can show the other members of the British jury, but not the German Jury.

The Televoting

1. Every forum member can vote in the televoting of any Semifinal and/or Final.

2. As a televoter you will have 20 'SMS' votes to allocate as you wish among the songs. You cannot vote for the country you are from. You must send your 'SMS' votes to the host account Eurovision

3. All the televoting 'SMS' will be counted all together and translated (by percentage) to equal to juries number of points.


It is important to note that we intend to have a jury vote from every country. While we are hopeful we can achieve this, it does mean that should we fail to receive a jury vote from any country, we will create an aggregated jury vote for them based on the jury votes of their pot members (or the other PQ countries in the case of the big 5 + host). In the same style the EBU would in Eurovision with a disqualified jury.


Note that we can't predict for now how many people participate, so we can extend some rules according to situation

 

[DenizESC]

I liked all Jury jokes but in all seriousness I made a way I personally will try to make the judging more objective as much as it is possibly of course. Y'all could follow it as well if you want or make your own system!

Voting System

Each song can get points distributed between 1-5 based on 4 categories and how well they performed in that department and with intersections of 0.5 points. (So 1-1.5-2-2.5-3-3.5-4-4.5-5)
I'll rate every entry I have to judge based on the 4 categories and hand points: the first 2 categories in my case hand/are worth 5 points each and number 3 and 4 hand 2.5 each (the 5 points you gave/2) so a total of max 15 points available per song. While in the televotes I'll just throw my votes at my faves, here I will follow whoever led in this system. The top 10 in the ranking will get the ESC style votes.


The 4 categories:

[1]Tune:
Obviously if you don't like the tune of a song and don't think it's melodious, catchy etc. then what's the point even. These will be the songs that you'll probably listen to the most and in other cases, guilty pleasures for example.

[2]Performance: (Stage and/or Video)
We all know how staging can make or break an entry, you'll rank the best here, the ones that catches your attention the most, enhances a song etc.

[3]Lyrics and/or Message:
Great lyrics and/or a good message can really draw us to a song at times, maybe even when it isn't usually your cup of tea. Reminder here once again, this all is still subjective: great lyrics = not equal to 'wow their English is good.' I'd personally put Serhat high here for example as he truly made us all feel his message with both the vibe of the song and the lyrics.


[4]Representation/Uniqueness:
Eurovision brings so many different cultures and nations together and that's one of the things we also love about it. Obviously it's 2020, when I mean representation of a country this might also be representation of of minorities and different types of groups inside AND outside the nation. Some people that would rate high in my ranking for example are Netta (and I'm not a big fan), but also Hatari definitely for the unique flavour they brought to the contest and the winner of last year copycats would probably not do well.

One last reminder that this is all entirely still SUBJECTIVE, you might like different tunes, think that some lyrics that others feel suck are great, you might think that staging everyone hates actually worked with the entry or that the message was well brought and heard for some entry others think wasn't.

Sorry for the long post

 

[cegs5]

I think juries should just follow their heart and rank them according to how they feel the entry, not how they are supposed to. i.e. An entry can have (in your opinion) a great video/staging, powerful message, good singer, unique among other contestants... yet you don't really like the song... so why would you rank it high following a score system?
Of course, this is in the end up to each individual.

 

[DenizESC]

I think juries should just follow their heart and rank them according to how they feel the entry, not how they are supposed to. i.e. An entry can have (in your opinion) a great video/staging, powerful message, good singer, unique among other contestants... yet you don't really like the song... so why would you rank it high following a score system?
Of course, this is in the end up to each individual.

I think in my case with the first two being about things that a lot of times make an ESC song for me and it having 10 pts, I feel it usually would bring out my faves still on top but with a 3rd section cut into 2 will bring some other values for more objectivity. But this is indeed completely up to the individual, was just a suggestion as many people struggled to think of ways to make it more objective, if it doesn't end up representing you of course don't follow it ...ever or tweak it to your wishes.

 

[DenizESC]

Trece: *reads lyrics*

DENIZ IS CANCELLED

 

[Trece]

Trece: *reads lyrics*

DENIZ IS CANCELLED

Trece is cancelled

 

[Leydan]

I think juries should just follow their heart and rank them according to how they feel the entry, not how they are supposed to. i.e. An entry can have (in your opinion) a great video/staging, powerful message, good singer, unique among other contestants... yet you don't really like the song... so why would you rank it high following a score system?
Of course, this is in the end up to each individual.

Really this is what it comes down to. People can try to be subjective but personal preference will always play a part, and any set of vote will be influenced one way or another. A song can have a 'message' but if you're totally disconnected from that message or simply don't care then it doesn't matter. This is the same for originality or uniqueness, if you can't tolerate for a second what that originality is then you can't possibly rank it high, UK 2015 was definitely original but almost everyone hates it. I said to the people in the UK jury to rank the songs as they like, whether it's through preference or following close to the jury criteria. Just make sure it is fair and their ranks are correct.

 

[Stargazer]

My long list of criterias when judging these songs will be as follows:

Do I like the tune? Yes/No

And... that's it. For me the music is the most and only important thing. If I don't like the actual song, it won't matter how flashy, creative and unique the performance or the artist is. I should be able to listen to the song with my eyes closed or hear it hummed by a 195 year old cave troll and still enjoy it.

 

[DenizESC]

But I don't recall saying u should vote for any messages, lyrics, perf. even if it makes u feel nothing, specifically said you should look at ur own subjective feelings towards it, so the ones u do feel and u can connect with and if you think it maybe does add something to the overall performance

Personally I think there is a lot of things that affect our feelings towards an entry conscious or unconsciously. Igranka is a good example of this, I already loved the song but at ESC I was STANNING.

To me Eurovision is not just about a song, I have seen many songs I loved and didn't necessarily root for them in the show.

Anyways, making a system was just a SUGGESTION, I'm sure I'll tweak mine too, it's just my love for numbers and statistics.

 

[midnightsun]

I think juries should just follow their heart and rank them according to how they feel the entry, not how they are supposed to.

So why are there juries then? Why do they have to be in the music industry then? (In the official jury that is)

Of course, in the end every jury voting is subjective. Even if I try to be as objective as I can be - my criteria what objectivity is (to me) is still subjective. And of course I wouldn’t rank any song I dislike or even loathe in my top 10 only because it‘s sophisticated or „juryfriendly“.

I think it’s about finding the right balance between my own taste but also acknowledging songs many people put a lot of effort in. In the end, personal taste will always win over quality.
But imo juries are there to give good songs a chance which otherwise wouldn’t stand one because of usual blocvoting and such. So I can see myself ranking Song A at 10 which I would have had normally set at 11 and Song B which I slightly prefer over A at 11 instead of 10. Minor changes that is. Not big ones.

 

[JamieBrown]

I agree on both side of views as well. Not because I have no own opinion, but I can totally agree with you voting how you feel. It's impossible to rank an entry better, if you want to believe in it, yet you can't connect to it. That's reasonable, plus to see an artificial/meaningful message in a song is not less subjective.

Personally I do want to take some "professional" aspects into consideration. I can totally like an entry, yet I recognize all the flaws it has. At least it's authentic, so I can give some extra points for that at least. Yet I can't be keen on one song but admit that the artist gives life to it (e.g. Netta, Eleni, Luca). This will be harder to judge if there is no live act, but to me as an musician myself it is important. Thus, for the same reason, I feel like I have to recognize a well-made production or well-thought compositions. It's what I want to get back for my ideas as well.

 

[mauve]

So why are there juries then? Why do they have to be in the music industry then? (In the official jury that is)

Of course, in the end every jury voting is subjective. Even if I try to be as objective as I can be - my criteria what objectivity is (to me) is still subjective. And of course I wouldn’t rank any song I dislike or even loathe in my top 10 only because it‘s sophisticated or „juryfriendly“.

I think it’s about finding the right balance between my own taste but also acknowledging songs many people put a lot of effort in. In the end, personal taste will always win over quality.
But imo juries are there to give good songs a chance which otherwise wouldn’t stand one because of usual blocvoting and such. So I can see myself ranking Song A at 10 which I would have had normally set at 11 and Song B which I slightly prefer over A at 11 instead of 10. Minor changes that is. Not big ones.

That's exactly how I feel. I have listed my songs as a Juror already and realized that I definitely ranked some of my faves down because for the sake of objectivity and some higher that I am not so inclined to. You defintely need to find a good balance between objectivity and subjectivity. It's indeed more difficult than I thought because there need to be a difference between the Jury and televote.

 

[Nemo89]

I liked all Jury jokes but in all seriousness I made a way I personally will try to make the judging more objective as much as it is possibly of course. Y'all could follow it as well if you want or make your own system!

Voting System

Each song can get points distributed between 1-5 based on 4 categories and how well they performed in that department and with intersections of 0.5 points. (So 1-1.5-2-2.5-3-3.5-4-4.5-5)
I'll rate every entry I have to judge based on the 4 categories and hand points: the first 2 categories in my case hand/are worth 5 points each and number 3 and 4 hand 2.5 each (the 5 points you gave/2) so a total of max 15 points available per song. While in the televotes I'll just throw my votes at my faves, here I will follow whoever led in this system. The top 10 in the ranking will get the ESC style votes.


The 4 categories:

[1]Tune:
Obviously if you don't like the tune of a song and don't think it's melodious, catchy etc. then what's the point even. These will be the songs that you'll probably listen to the most and in other cases, guilty pleasures for example.

[2]Performance: (Stage and/or Video)
We all know how staging can make or break an entry, you'll rank the best here, the ones that catches your attention the most, enhances a song etc.

[3]Lyrics and/or Message:
Great lyrics and/or a good message can really draw us to a song at times, maybe even when it isn't usually your cup of tea. Reminder here once again, this all is still subjective: great lyrics = not equal to 'wow their English is good.' I'd personally put Serhat high here for example as he truly made us all feel his message with both the vibe of the song and the lyrics.


[4]Representation/Uniqueness:
Eurovision brings so many different cultures and nations together and that's one of the things we also love about it. Obviously it's 2020, when I mean representation of a country this might also be representation of of minorities and different types of groups inside AND outside the nation. Some people that would rate high in my ranking for example are Netta (and I'm not a big fan), but also Hatari definitely for the unique flavour they brought to the contest and the winner of last year copycats would probably not do well.

One last reminder that this is all entirely still SUBJECTIVE, you might like different tunes, think that some lyrics that others feel suck are great, you might think that staging everyone hates actually worked with the entry or that the message was well brought and heard for some entry others think wasn't.

Sorry for the long post

DenizESC, I appreciate very much that you have established a balanced and interesting judgment system You have chosen to be part of those (very few ) juries that follow point A as I spoke about last night as a criterion. This honors you and your jury (if you can manage it ). Remember well, your judgment system also has limitations. In Italy it says "Found a law, found a deception" Your system, if accepted by everyone , can always be manipulated (with a few more calculations) However, even if you get many smiles and compliments , the juries will always vote in their congenial way: point B and C I spoke to you about yesterday (personal taste without study or only to achieve victory or a good ranking ).

A word of advice, don't believe in the goodness of the voters

With that said, your system opens another thread. Days ago, I advised Sean to establish the other jury awards: "Press Award", "Artistic Award" and "Composer Award" Your categories as well as being used for the general jury vote can be excellent for deciding the winners of the other award categories If we calculate that the "Ranking Game" can be seen as the "OGAE ranking", our community could create an Online ESC equal in all to the real ESC

 

[Nemo89]

So why are there juries then? Why do they have to be in the music industry then? (In the official jury that is)

Of course, in the end every jury voting is subjective. Even if I try to be as objective as I can be - my criteria what objectivity is (to me) is still subjective. And of course I wouldn’t rank any song I dislike or even loathe in my top 10 only because it‘s sophisticated or „juryfriendly“.

I think it’s about finding the right balance between my own taste but also acknowledging songs many people put a lot of effort in. In the end, personal taste will always win over quality.
But imo juries are there to give good songs a chance which otherwise wouldn’t stand one because of usual blocvoting and such. So I can see myself ranking Song A at 10 which I would have had normally set at 11 and Song B which I slightly prefer over A at 11 instead of 10. Minor changes that is. Not big ones.

There is only one difference between subjectivity and objectivity in art. Objectivity, which cannot be separated from subjectivity, must be balanced. Lack of balance is precisely the problem. The moral of this whole story? Each jury will vote as they wish.

 

[Petar]

It is really hard not to be bias and subjective when rating anything, you have to be educated in a certain field to be able to have an unbiased opinion and even then it's not completely unbiased.

A song could get more sympathy points if the singer is really good vocally, but the song is nothing special and that's that. Everything else is biased.

 

[Steffan]

I just did my preliminary ranking. How I did it is I did 2 rankings: 1) My personal ranking fave to least fave, 2) I assigned each song a score out of 10 for Song/Impression/Juryability and then sorted the total scores highest to lowest and assigned a rank like this. Then I summed up the 2 ranks and sorted the scores once again. Then I made minor adjustments where I felt they were needed.

What I think is ultimately everyone will have their own way of ranking the songs which may be more or less "jury like" and more or less "personal taste", which is perfect, as this is just how it is in real juries... Radio hosts member will have different level of un-bias and different criteria than an opera singer. And remember that sometimes the songs we think the juries will smash actually end up winning jury votes, so don't just go into the mold of "juries love classical, powerballads with high notes etc".

Basically, just have fun

The ranking in case anyone is curious:

 

[ESC94]

I just finished my ranking. Beside my personal preferences I also looked on how authentic the whole "package" of song and artist is for me.

But it wasn´t easy, in the last minute I changed some positions.

 

[Petar]

What @Steffan did is a good example of trying to simulate the jury vote.

 

[Leydan]

I just did my preliminary ranking. How I did it is I did 2 rankings: 1) My personal ranking fave to least fave, 2) I assigned each song a score out of 10 for Song/Impression/Juryability and then sorted the total scores highest to lowest and assigned a rank like this. Then I summed up the 2 ranks and sorted the scores once again. Then I made minor adjustments where I felt they were needed.

What I think is ultimately everyone will have their own way of ranking the songs which may be more or less "jury like" and more or less "personal taste", which is perfect, as this is just how it is in real juries... Radio hosts member will have different level of un-bias and different criteria than an opera singer. And remember that sometimes the songs we think the juries will smash actually end up winning jury votes, so don't just go into the mold of "juries love classical, powerballads with high notes etc".

Basically, just have fun

The ranking in case anyone is curious:

This actually looks like a really good balance of them both to get an overall rank, ill probably end up doing something a little like this as it wouldn't feel right doing a full preference only vote. I agree with your last part in particular as well, radio friendly is important and often juries praise songs that aren't always huge vocals or ballads.

 

[Seok-jin]

I just did my preliminary ranking. How I did it is I did 2 rankings: 1) My personal ranking fave to least fave, 2) I assigned each song a score out of 10 for Song/Impression/Juryability and then sorted the total scores highest to lowest and assigned a rank like this. Then I summed up the 2 ranks and sorted the scores once again. Then I made minor adjustments where I felt they were needed.

What I think is ultimately everyone will have their own way of ranking the songs which may be more or less "jury like" and more or less "personal taste", which is perfect, as this is just how it is in real juries... Radio hosts member will have different level of un-bias and different criteria than an opera singer. And remember that sometimes the songs we think the juries will smash actually end up winning jury votes, so don't just go into the mold of "juries love classical, powerballads with high notes etc".

Basically, just have fun

The ranking in case anyone is curious:

This is a very good idea

 

[midnightsun]

I did a little ESC with my family (husband, mother, sister, brother and me). I sent them all songs in packs of 3. The fav got 3 points, the second 1 point and the last one zero points, just like in soccer. Out of the three only the winner got through to the final. We had ten finalists which each of us ranked from 12, 10, 8, 7 to 1. So we had a winner and a ranking down to no. 10.
I will include these votes (of course only those songs that will be in the final in our vote here) in my telephone sms votes here so that all of my family is represented here.