Ukraine UKRAINE 2024 - Alyona Alyona & Jerry Heil - Teresa & Maria

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[Sammy]

I mean yeah rap isn't exactly European but it's widely popular.

nothing to do with european. Rap is music from the street, not from a continent. There are great european rappers.

 

[AlekS]

Well, in my case that’s a misconception. I do like rap. I don‘t like this one. Because rap originated from a cultural background that has nothing to do with the two singers nor the theme of the song. It feels awkward. Like you show up to a theme party and you chose the wrong outfit.

What feels even more awkward is limiting and censoring genres, reducing them to one cultural background.

nothing to do with european. Rap is music from the street, not from a continent. There are great european rappers.

alyona alyona's upbringing is a poor village family, she moved to Kyiv and literally her first steps in rap was "music from the streets" against discrimination/fatshaming/sexism, rape, drugs etc. American Vogue called her the most unexpected rap star when she was barely famous here... Skepta begged her to listen to her tracks in his earphones on a fest and he had a blast. She has performed on dozens of festivals from showcase to Sziget, she has toured USA, she's recognized by European rap community and the most badass rappers from the streets who are, thankfully, not narrow-minded and accept people from different backgrounds.

 

[Sammy]

What feels even more awkward is limiting and censoring genres, reducing them to one cultural background.

Who censored anything? I just explained why this specific rap doesn't resonate with me personally. I'm not one of the cultural appropriation-guys, no need to get into defense-mode. But it's a fact that musical genres come from different backgrounds. I think it's legit to take this into consideration.

btw, I gave it in the poll - so I don't dislike the song in general. I hope it's possible to have a differentiated opinion on a song.

 

[I bims]

I mean yeah rap isn't exactly European but it's widely popular.

Part of the foundation of modern hip-hop is the works of the german band "Kraftwerk".
A lot of americans really love to nitpick and act like they invented every popular current music, so I'm gonna nitpick too lol

Also rap has always been the music of the marginalized and we have that in Europe as well. Can't be more marginalized than being victim of a genocide.

 

[Grinch]

1 pt. Out of respect.

 

[AlekS]

Speaking of cultural backgrounds and hip hop

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7318360980197510406
Breakdancing when? Ghetto who? Our bboys have been doing this for centuries

As mentioned before, we went through slavery (tho to a lesser extent of course), genocides, colonization, poverty, drugs epidemy, police bruatality... no wonder we feel rap so much and currently it's even more popular than pop.

 

[Sammy]

Speaking of cultural backgrounds and hip hop

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7318360980197510406
Breakdancing when? Ghetto who? Our bboys have been doing this for centuries

yeah- it‘s two ladies in long gowns and sacral music in the back doing that in the video - just proved my point thank you.

And Mozart was a dragqueen cuz he wore a wig.

 

[AlekS]

yeah- it‘s two ladies in long gowns and sacral music in the back doing that in the video - just proved my point thank you.

And Mozart was a dragqueen cuz he wore a wig.

I'm talking about origins, not the entry. Hide your sarcasm somewhere else

 

[AlekS]

In fact, I think "Teresa & Maria" is closer to hip hop origins than "Stefania".
"Stefania" is a dedication to the leader of the band's mother, also an apology for being drug addicted in the past and causing her lots of pain.
Teresa & Maria is an anthem against discrimination, fat shaming, sexism / just shaming of women for not fitting stereotypes (not being married & having a child, not being thinner or being too thin). Alyona speaks from her own experience of beeing not accepted as female rapper ("you're too soft", also a double meaning for fat shaming).
The lyrics obviously hints at the genocide/ukrophobia/police brutality and all what we went through in the past, channeling our ancestors.

They praise volunteers and ordinary people who help others & compare them to saints. The song touches religion but it's going against patriarchy and "a saint is something supernatural" concept. They also low-key compare ordinary people who face bullying/violence to Jesus ("your thorny path is not for nothing"), which is a little bit controversial from the church's point of view.

 

[Wynnter]

Yeah, you can always count on Ukraine it seems. This is quite beautiful indeed. It doesn't lift me up all the way to high heavens as I would hope for, but the composition is powerful and the rap part is executed really well. The song does hook me in, but unfortunately I would personally need something a little bit more in order to stay bedazzled. They will get a great result though!

Upper end of points.

 

[Sammy]

I'm talking about origins, not the entry. Hide your sarcasm somewhere else

yeah breakdance originated in eastern european folk dance! For sure.

Just because two things have similarities doesn‘t mean there is a link between them.

 

[AlekS]

yeah breakdance originated in eastern european folk dance! For sure.

Just because two things have similarities doesn‘t mean there is a link between them.

Ours certainly did You have seen it in Eurovision's winning performance in 2022

But if 2 things are similar there's already a link I will never say:

Because rap originated from a cultural background that has nothing to do with the two singers nor the theme of the song. It feels awkward. Like you show up to a theme party and you chose the wrong outfit.

because it's not about strictly following someone's cultural background. And I would never compare showcasing somebody's culture/experience to a "theme party".

 

[Sammy]

Ours certainly did You have seen it in Eurovision's winning performance in 2022

But if 2 things are similar there's already a link I will never say:

because it's not about strictly following someone's cultural background. And I would never compare showcasing somebody's culture/experience to a "theme party".

Well, I stand to everything I said. I dont feel anything of it was rude, offensive, false or in any other way inapproriate.
I repeat, I was not stating a rule, an order or whatever that should be obeyed or viewed as a standard. I was explaining my feelings about one part of this entry which actually is the reason we‘re here: exchanging opinions on songs, right?

You‘re free to think, that rap and religious inspired music is a perfect match - I don‘t. And I‘m not even saying in general, am very much into blending styles and cultures. It‘s just in this case - I dont feel it. easy as that.

Are we good now?

 

[AlekS]

I will explain some parts of the lyrics to non-Ukrainians:

"Jere-Jere-jerelo" (a word play on Jerry's name) a spring (water) forces its way" - you have to fight obstacles in your life, fight for your principles.
There's another play on English & Ukrainian words ("money-money-manivtsi tortuous and rocky" line - don't take an easy road/money, stay true to yourself even if you have to choose a winding path).

"Mama Teresa and diva Maria" is intentionally Latinized Ukrainian pronunciation, but obviously mixed with modern ghey slang It's a triple play on words Diva means "virgin" or "girl" (shortened from divchyna) or "diva" in Ukrainian. Virgin Mary, matriarchy, gays.
"Mother Teresa" is a saying in our language, it means someone (even a man) who helps others without asking anything in return. They basically say that there's nothing supernatural in being a saint, potentially it can be anyone. It's an ode to every volunteer or anyone who sacrifices their wellbeing to help others.

Alyona's lyrics refers to our modern days and struggles, something that resonates a lot to every Ukrainian. Keep helping each other and fighting injustice, prejudices, do not give up even if your energy at its lowest.
It's also her personal story about being emotionally abused since childhood, fat shaming, slut shaming, dealing with fake people ("they hide hatred and jealousy behind the smiles, when you let anger into your heart instead of kindness and love").

 

[Lietuvis]

By now hip hop has become global and to me personally it's not weird at all seeing rappers from any culture. And you often see even famous US rappers giving props to foreign rap stars.

 

[AlekS]

Eurovizija.LT effect. #21 on Spotify yesterday, without even performing there. 3rd best increase out of all 200 songs in the chart
Thrice more streams than "Stefania" at this stage.

 

[LakZaNokte]

Tbh I like this more than Stefania.

It is a big contender for a win and I would finally, after few years, be happy with it.

Good luck!

 

[Iker]

I feel like betting my money for the first time for a Eurovision winner and I feel like doing it soon before the odds drop further. I just don't see it possibly not winning. It's a very good song, that is not too niche, very memorable. And don't forget about the power of Ukrainian diaspora on top of it.

 

[Iker]

I mean yeah rap isn't exactly European but it's widely popular.

But somehow nearly all entries that were mostly rap did underperform at the contest. I remember a lot of hype and love from the fandom for Joci Papai but he did not have a result as good as it was expected, especially on his 2nd occasion. Maybe Hungarian was a tough one for people. Hip-hop is very underrepresented at the ESC so is R'n'B. Last time we had a lot of R'n'B entries was when R'n'B was all over in pop music so in the late 00s.

 

[Iker]

I will vote for Ukraine and if they win it will be totally deserved. The best song so far and a hard one to beat in my opinion.

It's the only song so far that gives me winner vibes.