Ukraine UKRAINE 2023 - Tvorchi - Heart of Steel

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[SpiritofKeiino]

So - how will the sympathy vote for Ukraine materialise in the GF this year?

Televote - I do think the sympathy vote will be down a lot on last year although I can see HoS being in the top 5 televote again. I do wonder to what extent will dispersed Ukrainians all over Europe come out and support it.
Jury - this doesn't feel like a jury bait song - I could see it being top 10 jury at a push. Likely not enough to take it over the finish line.

I also wonder, if it draws first half, will it be given a slot from 1-7 with the intention of sinking it as EBU doesn't want them winning again two years in a row.

 

[AlekS]

So - how will the sympathy vote for Ukraine materialise in the GF this year?

Televote - I do think the sympathy vote will be down a lot on last year although I can see HoS being in the top 5 televote again. I do wonder to what extent will dispersed Ukrainians all over Europe come out and support it.
Jury - this doesn't feel like a jury bait song - I could see it being top 10 jury at a push. Likely not enough to take it over the finish line.

I also wonder, if it draws first half, will it be given a slot from 1-7 with the intention of sinking it as EBU doesn't want them winning again two years in a row.

Where was the sympathy vote at JESC?

Ukrainians in Europe didn't vote for Gaitana and O.Torvald, so why should we vote for something we don't like? I'd rather save these money and fund AFU instead

I wouldn't be surprised if the EBU will be so biased like certain "people" on this forum (quotation marks only, after what they've posted against my nationality) or Twitter.
It's not a secret that we are hated by certain part of eurofans. So I'm wondering how many people and the juries will not vote for us, no matter what we send, in the future


Imo, the top 10 in televoting this year will be a miracle (it should be out of top 10 deservedly). The broadcaster doesn't want it in the top 5. Unlike "Stefania", this song is not popular here at all. Local Spotify and YT post-Vidbir fugures are horrific.

 

[StephenMuckle]

Where was the sympathy vote at JESC?

Ukrainians in Europe didn't vote for Gaitana and O.Torvald, so why should we vote for something we don't like? I'd rather save these money and fund AFU instead

I wouldn't be surprised if the EBU will be so biased like certain "people" on this forum (quotation marks only, after what they've posted against my nationality) or Twitter.
It's not a secret that we are hated by certain part of eurofans. So I'm wondering how many people and the juries will not vote for us, no matter what we send, in the future


Imo, the top 10 in televoting this year will be a miracle (it should be out of top 10 deservedly). The broadcaster doesn't want it in the top 5. Unlike "Stefania", this song is not popular here at all. Local Spotify and YT post-Vidbir fugures are horrific.

I think Suspline will throw the kitchen sink to try and win it. They will stage the hell out of it. It wouldn't surprise me if they get Fokas Evangelinos to do the staging. I did hear a while back though that the guy who staged Duncan and Common Linnets might do it. Apparently in 2019 he was also meant to stage Maruv and her staging would have been very different to Vidbir (allegedly would have involved "spider web" visuals and had four dancers and started with a close up of Maruv's eyes)

 

[Bmbriga]

So, this revamp is disappointing.

 

[AlekS]

I think Suspline will throw the kitchen sink to try and win it. They will stage the hell out of it. It wouldn't surprise me if they get Fokas Evangelinos to do the staging. I did hear a while back though that the guy who staged Duncan and Common Linnets might do it. Apparently in 2019 he was also meant to stage Maruv and her staging would have been very different to Vidbir (allegedly would have involved "spider web" visuals and had four dancers and started with a close up of Maruv's eyes)

Lmao, Kirkorov and his "team" are non-grata in most Eastern European countries (literally) and especially here
Hun, it's been already announced who will do the staging. Basically same company that worked on our previous stagings, but headed by different people this time. The dude was in charge of Vidbir at subway station. Yes, he can make a good picture out of literally nothing. It won't help the song.
As for Maruv, she was about to work with Ukrainian company. She herself said that she wants to involve audience in the arena as a part of her staging.

 

[A-lister]

So - how will the sympathy vote for Ukraine materialise in the GF this year?

Televote - I do think the sympathy vote will be down a lot on last year although I can see HoS being in the top 5 televote again. I do wonder to what extent will dispersed Ukrainians all over Europe come out and support it.
Jury - this doesn't feel like a jury bait song - I could see it being top 10 jury at a push. Likely not enough to take it over the finish line.

I also wonder, if it draws first half, will it be given a slot from 1-7 with the intention of sinking it as EBU doesn't want them winning again two years in a row.

What a disgusting post...

 

[midnightsun]

Why?

Unfortunately there are many people in Europe thinking Ukraine will win again this year because of "pity votes" and don’t want to watch Eurovision because it’s "rigged" (in the sense of pity victory). I don’t understand it but honestly, many people are simple and stupid. And the average tv audience doesn’t care about the bubble and all the stuff the months before ESC. They just watch Eurovision, parroting stuff exactly like this ("oh, Ukraine will win anyway because of war"). It’s the same delusional gibberish they always say, like „all countries are neighbour voting, especially Balkans“ and such shit.

And I can totally see f-ing EBU trying to avoid that opinion.

That said, actually most countries don’t want to win a second time after their victory. It’s expensive. That’s why they often send songs which are worse than their average songs. Also people are reluctant to vote for a country that has just won. It worked in the 90s where there was jury only but not now. Unless it’s a real banger.

Heart of Steel is not a contender for the win, we all know that, but it’s BY FAR not the worst song. I really really like it, it just misses my top 10 on a small margin and since we have that „global“ vote I can see it getting points from them since it’s a very international style of music.

 

[SpiritofKeiino]

What a disgusting post...

How is my post offensive?

I liked Kalush last year, it was a great song however the reality is that it would not have won were it not for the sympathy vote.

 

[SpiritofKeiino]

Why?

Unfortunately there are many people in Europe thinking Ukraine will win again this year because of "pity votes" and don’t want to watch Eurovision because it’s "rigged" (in the sense of pity victory). I don’t understand it but honestly, many people are simple and stupid. And the average tv audience doesn’t care about the bubble and all the stuff the months before ESC. They just watch Eurovision, parroting stuff exactly like this ("oh, Ukraine will win anyway because of war"). It’s the same delusional gibberish they always say, like „all countries are neighbour voting, especially Balkans“ and such shit.

And I can totally see f-ing EBU trying to avoid that opinion.

That said, actually most countries don’t want to win a second time after their victory. It’s expensive. That’s why they often send songs which are worse than their average songs. Also people are reluctant to vote for a country that has just won. It worked in the 90s where there was jury only but not now. Unless it’s a real banger.

Heart of Steel is not a contender for the win, we all know that, but it’s BY FAR not the worst song. I really really like it, it just misses my top 10 on a small margin and since we have that „global“ vote I can see it getting points from them since it’s a very international style of music.

I agree, this is the point I am making - I don't see the EBU wanting Ukraine to win again. I can't see how my previous post was 'disgusting' as per the previous poster.

 

[A-lister]

How is my post offensive?

I liked Kalush last year, it was a great song however the reality is that it would not have won were it not for the sympathy vote.

Because these so called "sympathy vote" comments were tiring already a year ago, I think by now they truly come across as offensive imho (even if that might not have been the purpose) and what really is the purpose? It's very tone-deaf to the whole ongoing situation, it's discrediting a country's own merits in the contest and just come across as bad faith all in all. I don't really see the purpose tbh, it's like half of the comments in this thread and the ones in last year's thread are about how Ukraine can't achieve anything in this contest other than "sympathy" and making it sound as if they are milking the awful situation they're in... it's just... lack of better words... "disgusting"...

And everybody's memory is so short, forgetting how high they (Kalush) were ranked even prior the war... forgetting Ukraine's track-record in the contest... like can we not finally?

 

[midnightsun]

it's like half of the comments in this thread and the ones in last year's thread (…)

But unfortunately especially many people OUTSIDE the bubble (bubble = this forum, social media etc.) are simple minded when it comes to this.

I’ve read more than once people don’t bother to watch this year „because Ukraine will win anyway".

So there is a point in what SpiritofKeiino wrote, I didn’t feel it was meant offensive.

 

[A-lister]

But unfortunately especially many people OUTSIDE the bubble (bubble = this forum, social media etc.) are simple minded when it comes to this.

I’ve read more than once people don’t bother to watch this year „because Ukraine will win anyway".

So there is a point in what SpiritofKeiino wrote, I didn’t feel it was meant offensive.

Well, that's their issue... but I do think these comments leave a bad taste tbh, I don't say that all of them are coming from a bad place but unfortunately it does come across that way. Everybody is repeating the same myths like Kalush was a flop if it wasn't for the war, forgetting that they were in the top. 3 or so in the odds even prior the war...

 

[Looren]

I agree with the point that there were sympathy votes for Ukraine and all last year

What I don't agree with is that people say Ukraine would've flopped without war, that song was obviously a contender for the win/top 3 from the beginning

I personally think it would've won with or without war

But yeah anyway, sympathy or not, a winner is a winner, Kalush won Eurovision and that won't change

 

[A-lister]

I agree with the point that there were sympathy votes for Ukraine and all last year

What I don't agree with is that people say Ukraine would've flopped without war, that song was obviously a contender for the win/top 3 from the beginning

I personally think it would've won with or without war

But yeah anyway, sympathy or not, a winner is a winner, Kalush won Eurovision and that won't change

I think no one is denying that there were sympathy votes, but these constant posts, just like you say, try to basically discredit Ukraine in the contest all and all and make it look like the country is only succeeding on sympathy votes and this narrative is old and unfair.

 

[Mainshow]

But unfortunately especially many people OUTSIDE the bubble (bubble = this forum, social media etc.) are simple minded when it comes to this.

I’ve read more than once people don’t bother to watch this year „because Ukraine will win anyway".

Tons of such comments could have been read prior May 2022 as well.

It´s always the same - Social media is a nasty place and people are stupid.
People don´t watch Eurovision because of the "trashy music", "the camp performances", "Conchita Wurst", "diaspora and neighbouring votes", "Ukraine", "politics", "the War", "RuZZia´s withdrawal", "Germany and the UK having to pay for it and getting big fat despite submitting amazing and very competitive radio-friendly stuff", "Eastern European countries"....

It´s always the same sh*t and the contest survived and still got 160 to 200 million viewers each year (in recent years).

In 2021, the Top 3 looked like this: , and - and in 2022, "everyone" was complaining about and Eastern European countries voting for each other again... seriously, we all should be giving zero f*cks at this point. People making such comments are either a) totally dumb, b) are racist or c) don´t watch the contest anyway.

 

[Remembrance]

Yeah, I like the improvements to the track (the strings in particular).
But I'm still not totally sold on the song itself. It's different from most Ukrainian offerings, which I do appreciate

Good luck, Ukraine.

 

[AlekS]

I also wonder, if it draws first half, will it be given a slot from 1-7 with the intention of sinking it as EBU doesn't want them winning again two years in a row.

And it's the middle of the 2nd half

Ukraine 19th and the United Kingdom 26th in Grand Final

Ukraine has been drawn to perform 19th in the Grand Final of Eurovision 2023, while the United Kingdom randomly drew 26th position.

eurovision.tv

 

[Realest]

Short Reminder about last Years #19.

Or 1 Year before:

 

[AlekS]

^We started that tradition, we will break it

 

[StephenMuckle]

^We started that tradition, we will break it

You're not too confident aren't you? All depends on who is performing around them.