Slowly but surely Eurovision is getting there...

[MyHeartIsYours]

Ok, didnt want to offend you by saying she coz I have not heard your name

I guess we are two very different people which is why we disagree so much

 

[Morty]

Ok, didnt want to offend you by saying she coz I have not heard your name

I guess we are two very different people which is why we disagree so much

Hehe, no problem. Morty isn't a very common name (I think I'm the only one in Norway with that name). Jerry Seinfeld's dad's name is apparently also Morty tho, but he just uses it as a short version of Mortimer.

And yeah, especially when it comes to music, we are VERY different

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

We should just agree to disagree

Sorry for arguing with you

 

[Morty]

Yeah.

No problem, I'm used to arguing with people, I tend to have opinions that stand out a bit.

 

[Metaller]

I think this was one fantastic ESC, and I would say the same if we wouldn't have finished as the winner.

There are 3 things I really, really liked:

- The actual songs that ended up high: I am extremely pleased, that a lot of the top 10 songs aren't your typical ESC songs. No typical Eurodance in the whole top 10 and the few ballads that made it are actually worthwhile (Azerbaijan, because it is really contemporary and Georgia, although a bit old fashioned was sung excellent and also Ukraine with its rather dark theme, which was one of my faves). Just Denmark is a remain of older ESC days in my opinion. Also, there are alot of different musical genres present. From mainstream pop (Germany and Romania), over nu metallish to singer-songwriter. And also the stuff just outside the top 10 is still quite intersting and diverse (France, Serbia).

- The votes: I don't know if it was just the jury votes or if block/neighbour/diaspora voting is finally declining in general, but I got the feeling that the votes were better mixed and way less predictable than ever before. I really hope that trend goes on!

- The ESC in Oslo: Besides the guy disturbing the spanish performance and sometimes a bit poor direction choices during the acts, I got the feeling that this was one of the fastest moving ESCs I can remember. Also the interval act was actually entertaining for once. And the presenters didn't try to be in the focus so much. Also I thought it was very good that the female presenter didn't chat with the presenters of the points, cause that is almost always totally needless and just prolonged the whole stuff.

So in general: A great ESC that might have really helped the popularity of future ESCs. I hope next year will be at least as good as this one!

 

[Matt]

As much as I'm happy Germany won, it's going to be difficult topping this year's show. Great songs, great hosting and fair results overall.

I hope that this may bring some of our old friends (Italy, Austria, Luxembourg etc) back to the contest.

 

[Milos-BC]

I think that Germany will actually give us the best ESC ever I am soooo looking forward to it

Yeah, Norway did give a great show. I was not impressed at all by the first semi organization, but things were going better and better. Much better than the Moscow show.

I am already looking forward to 2011

 

[Etl]

I hope that this may bring some of our old friends (Italy, Austria, Luxembourg etc) back to the contest.

I think they cannot participate in 2011's edition, because they ought to have broadcast the contest this year.

 

[94ayd]

Someone said that this rule doesn't exist anymore and I hope so.

 

[AlekS]

& 2008 was just fans of a singer & Russians voting for their country.

so ... did you ask all people why they voted for that song? You can say that it was the worst Russian song - this is your right, but can you please prove that it was just fans of a singer & Russians voting for their country? With exact numbers and explanations of every single person who voted, please.

or is it because you and your friends disliked that song? because your and their opinion is more important than our?

people have different taste you know

 

[AlekS]

Starting from times when we were pretty successful, every single year we see people who whistle at ex-Soviet votes.

If I liked Estonian song, I'm gonna vote for Estonian song... no matter if some people show their low level of culture, booing at Ukrainians who voted for ex-Soviet entry.

This actually stirred some fuss here.

It was mentioned in the media and in the big blogs.
It was a huge turn off when people wanted to vote for their fave songs and in response they were discriminated in front of the whole world. When we are labeled for having our taste basically. Of course this prejudiced attitude was taken personally by many people who voted for Russia or Azerbaijan for instance, even by people who voted for another entries :evil:

 

[broomhelga]

Russia entered a horrible song and deserved to do much worse than it did.

 

[AlekS]

^ according to your opinion but not our, as appeared.

 

[broomhelga]

The fact that Albania, Portugal, Serbia and Iceland all beat Russia in the semi and lost to them in the final shows that when block voting was lessened with the semi system they did worse but when block voting was more possible they did better.

DELETED - Political discussions are not allowed anywhere but in the Political Forum. We are taking this very seriously and political posts made outside of that forum will be moved and will result in a warning and possible ban. Political discussions in the political forum need to be civilized and respectful. You are allowed to agree/disagree but derogatory comments towards any country will not be tolerated.

 

[AlekS]

^ it's pretty awful that you don'ty pay attention to countries that refused to vote for Iceland or other entries.
If only some region votes for an entry - it's not a bad thing. It seems it's ok when other countries vote for Iceland, Portugal etc... but when some region prefers their own music (lies! we did not vote only for our entries) we are being discriminated.

when 10 entries collide with 15 in the final it's natural that some of them will be lower.

No need in labeling people for having their own taste.

As for gas remark - we can borrow you our own gas go and spread your hatred somewhere else, thanks.

 

[broomhelga]

When the blocks are removed in the semi this leaves more free slots for countries to vote for the good songs. This is why those 4 countries finished above Russia.

In the final when more of each countries slots are taking my neighbourly/diaspora voting then countries like Russia do not suffer and the countries with good songs take a hit.

There is no way Russia's was the 11th best entry in 2010.

I have absolutely no problem with ANY of the Eurovision countries doing well as long as they have the good song to back up the points they receive. I'd have liked Russia to have won in 2003 and 2007....

 

[AlekS]

^ and why should someone take a right from people to vote for their faves? Leave it for others and take it from certain geographical area?

In the final when more of each countries slots are taking my neighbourly/diaspora voting then countries like Russia do not suffer and the countries with good songs take a hit.

No problem. Send something that appeals to us (like Germany or Spain did, this year ) and you'll get what you want.

No need in talking about so cruel neighbour voting every time we vote for our neighbour.
No need in being 1-sided and closing your eyes on our votes for other entries


As for hints that neighbour voting dominates... it's not our fault that we send songs that appeal to other countries and our neighbours especially.
We will NOT refuse from neighbour voting just because someone thinks it's unfair.
Itr's unfair when 250 000 000 have no right to choose what they like :shock:

With neighbour voting Latvia, Lithuania & Estonia did NOT qualify.
With neighbour voting Belarus' became 2nd last and Moldova finished in the bottom 5.
With neighbour voting Germany won with a huge gap and Belgium got into top-5.
With neighbour voting Malta (country without neighbours basically) finished 2nd in 2005 receiving 12 and 10 from Russia and Ukraine.


I'll say it again: "Neighbour voting is not a problem".

Just say what you want to say, don't be afarid - it would be more fair if ex-USSR countries finished in the bottom 5 and the rest didn't qualify because you want so, because you (or someone else) want their faves to finish higher than certain ex-Soviet countries.

But ESC is not only for you. Respect our choice just like we respect yours, please.

No need in offensive xenophobic remarks about gas a-la Terry Wogan. We have our taste and we are gonna choose what we like.
Some of our neighbours sent songs that didn't appeal to us - Ukraine gave them 0's (Moldova and Belarus'), some of our neighbours sent songs that appeal to us (Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia) so we gave them points... as well as we gave points to other countries (Belgium, Spain, Romania, Germany, Israel and Turkey... these countries do not have any diaspora (except Israel maybe) or political ties with us and we used to give 0's to these countries in the past)... last year we voted for the UK (even televoters chose the UK), Denmark and France ...

so tell me please... it's not fair still? ha? Should we vote only for other countries?
I don't think that neighbour voting is really influential with the current system. I don't think that neighbour voting is a bad thing because we have already proved that we do not vote for all neighbours, we have our taste.
I'm not gonna feel guilty if I like Russian song and I vote for it.

 

[charlesf]

Look, Russia or Serbia are never going to make the last place. They have a structural voting advantage whatever song they enter.

But I don't mind that. To actually win, you need votes from across the continent. Some countries will do a fair number of ranks no matter what, but does it really matter if you're 12th or 19th?

Now, certainly Russia (or other countries with an in-built advantage) might just edge past say Belgium (a country without any bloc of note) and win the thing. But that's unlikely. As you can see in 2009 and 2010, the jury voting has contributed to ensuring there's a clear winner. Structural advantages played no part in those victories.

So, imo it's time to relax about voting patterns. We can all have a goodhearted laugh when predictable points are announced. But some aren't anymore as predictable. Romania's jury for instance ensured that Moldavia only "just" got 10 instead of 12 points.

But to get back to the thread's original subject, I think the jury component is giving serious contemporary pop music a real chance. Think Lena, think Tome Dice. Quality won. Kitsch and trash lost out. A very positive trend!

I'm confident that 2011 will see a crop of many modern songs thanks to Lena showing that it can be done.

The ESC's image and substance is clearly improving.

 

[AlekS]

Look, Russia or Serbia are never going to make the last place. They have a structural voting advantage whatever song they enter.

Never say never.
Ukraine has already been in the bottom 5 once so why not Russia (even though they are liked by neighbours more).

As for the jury .... imo, they have equal attitude. At least for my country. They do not discriminate countries just because they vote for neighbours. In 2009 we received almost equal amount of points from the jury & televoters unlike Russia which was faved by televoters btw ))) and we have A LOT of neighbours (geographically & politically and diaspora) ... but still some Western (for instance) countries without diaspora give us higher marks than our neighbours and closest neighbours (Russia gave us 2 pts last year in 2009 - now THAT's what was unpredictable). This year it was the UK and the Netherlands who gave us high marks. Also some points from France - this one was the most surprising for me. Just like our points to Turkey, Germany and Spain.

As for neighbours voting for 2009 and 2010 winners - there was neighbour voting in both cases and it always will be

Also I wouldn't call any songs quality cuz it's all subjective based on peopel's taste, there's no measurement for quality. Some people like the winners and some people dislike them.

As for kitch and trash. I think Lena was trashy.... esp her look and lyrics about underwear.

 

[broomhelga]

The problem is that we could have a fantastic contest and countries like Greece, Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Russia could enter dross and still get into the top 15.

I'd like the voting to be 50/50 but with jury preference when points are tied.