Russia RUSSIA 2015 - Polina Gagarina - A Million Voices

[Carian]

Kinda off topic... but it bothers me how Western media spins the booing and general disdain for Russia's entries into being an LGBT issue, or about Russia being a socially restrictive state. Then why don't they boo Belarus and Azerbaijan? The reason for the booing is the war, not LGBT issues.... at least try to get the reasons right!

Did anyone boo United Kingdom back in 2004 when they backed USA in the war against Hussein that proved too be totally nonsensincal and today it has resulted in bloody war and the rise of Islamic state that butchers non-believers and destroys historical monuments from antiquity??? Nope, nope, nope... So, Fluke, you get my like. We all have faults, so the booing is really unfair and I am glad that this protest is coming from someone up North of Europe

 

[Carian]

Hey, enough of politics. One question for native Russian fans on this forum. How popular is Fadeev in Russia? I am asking cuz he is making such great music.... Serebro, that tattooed girl, Yulia Savicheva and many more artists that I love sing his songs... Btw, one more question: what are some current pop hits in Russia that eveyone listens to over the last few months? Apart from Polina... I need soemthing fresh, cuz I've got really sick to listening to one and same Russian songs that I know
Oh, oh, oh, one more question: how popular is Svetlana Loboda in Russia, and Max Barskih? Is their image somewhat damaged now because of the war and political tensions with Ukraine? I really wanna know, cuz they are both great

 

[ElRuso]

[MENTION=14374]Carian[/MENTION] Well, Max Fadeev is pretty popular here, but his best days are gone. Besides, Savicheva in Eurovision was considered a failure by himself, and he promised that he would never go to Eurovision again. Yeah. Svetlana Loboda is popular here, I can say that she is spending more time in that in . The situation in Ukraine divided people, so some Ukrainian singers moved to Russia. Also, she made a duo with Emin Agalarov recently. As for Max Barskih he is not popular here, but yet has some fans.
As for the music, you can write me in PM, and I can advise you some good singers.

 

[Pawhlen]

In the main Russian newspaper is still trying to understand why Lithuanians give a big fat 0 to Polina as well..

Will they start a simular sandbox thing like they did after 2013 when didn´t gave them any points? That was quite pathetic

 

[ElRuso]

Will they start a simular sandbox thing like they did after 2013 when didn´t gave them any points? That was quite pathetic

What do you mean?

 

[ElRuso]

Lithuanian juror Lauras Luchiunas said that he marked Russia low, because he doesnt like far-fetched songs. He also said he likes alternative music, and if Finland would qualify, he would gave it 12 points. 12 to . Yeah.

 

[Krishoes]

Lithuanian juror Lauras Luchiunas said that he marked Russia low, because he doesnt like far-fetched songs. He also said he likes alternative music, and if Finland would qualify, he would gave it 12 points. 12 to . Yeah.

So thank you Lauras to make us understand that at this point jury is totally useless. If you vote only following your tastes you don't deserve a special place in a "professional jury", you just need your mobile phone.

 

[AGRush]

what are some current pop hits in Russia that eveyone listens to over the last few months? Apart from Polina... I need soemthing fresh, cuz I've got really sick to listening to one and same Russian songs that I know

 

[Scooby]

Well, my issue with this OGAY crowd (I loved this one, douze points to GWTW1939 from Carian) is not only because they boo Russia for whatever war or law they make, but it is blatantly evident that certain countries are subject to different criteria than others when judged. Does anyone talk or mention Latvia's or Lithuania's anti-Russian laws that put Russian minority in impossible situation to live there? Does anyone booes Hungary for almost Nazi laws they have introduced recently? Does anyone boo France for having deported Romanian gypsies? Does anyone boo British for their imperialistic policies? Or Swedish anti-Muslim and anti-Jewish laws that prevent them to live according to their traditional laws (I talk about prohibiting Jews and Muslim to kill animals in the way that is known simply as "kosher")? Nope, nope, nope. Besides, what is the difference between Russian anti-gay laws and those countries that still didn't legalize gay marriages? Well, if we boo Russia, lets be fair and lets boo one another for various racist, homophobic, or any laws of this kind that almost any European country still has - in covert or explicit form.
Furthermore, as a member of one of the Slavic nations, I have started wondering because of the last two ESC editions whether these double criteria apply not only to Russia, but anyone who doesn't belong to one of the "most democratic" goverments of the Western Europe... The aftertaste is definitively not good, and after having discovered that the new rules for jury ranking/voting since 2013 can anihilate the televoting of "Eastern block votings", this feeling/impression is only worsened.

What to say on this, I can only

 

[Sammy]

Besides, what is the difference between Russian anti-gay laws and those countries that still didn't legalize gay marriages?

Well, I suggest you just try it out! Go to a gaypride in Moscow and one in let's say Rome and see what's happening there!

You are mixing things up, which are not comparable. For instance your example with the swedish law. It does NOT forbid to kill the animals in a kosher way. They just have to be anesthetizes. Only extremists use this example to pretend an anti-muslim/jewish attitude. There are several renowned muslim and jewish theologists who have stated that these regulation do NOT violate muslim/jewish faith.
Hungary may for sure have questionable laws, but they did not invade another country and denied it first and then kind of admitted it (like in the russian documentary about the annexation of Crimea).
France was in fact heavily criticized for the expelling (which is NOT the same as deportation!) internationally and they reacted to it.

I give you the point, that countries are judged by different standards sometimes. And you are right that in various european countries (as maybe your example with the anti-russian laws in some baltic states, but sure also in western countries there are issues) there is still a lot to do to improve the situation. But pretending all of your examples are equal is quite a dangerous and also unfair approach.

Rather then suggesting to boo at any country because of a failure which comes to mind, I'd suggest not to boo at ANY country for political reasons.

 

[VikingTiger]

I really dont find the ESC the right place to judge any country. The singers are not responsible for the politics, the actions of their politicians or the social structures in their respective countries - nor for the view on matters like homosexuality, religion etc in their countries.
God knows there are issues in many of the participating countries. But I am leaving my feelings behind when watching and participating in the big party of Eurovision!

 

[VikingTiger]

By the way, I must say Russia was the biggest grower on me in the final. I was never a big fan of the song. But it all came together on stage. And it was all very impressive and very effective! A million voices leaped several places in my ranking! And I can fully understand the result!

 

[Sammy]

By the way, I must say Russia was the biggest grower on me in the final. I was never a big fan of the song. But it all came together on stage. And it was all very impressive and very effective! A million voices leaped several places in my ranking! And I can fully understand the result!

yes, let's turn to the song again.
For me, it was always a nice song, not outstanding, still nice to listen to. But a bit too cheesy for my taste, when it comes to the lyrics. (As in the case of San Marino). So in my ranking, it was always a good top 15, but nothing more. The singing was phenomenal and Polina is a great performer. Still, for me it didn't raise so high. I'd say close to top ten, but there were really a lot of great entries this year.

 

[VikingTiger]

yes, let's turn to the song again.
For me, it was always a nice song, not outstanding, still nice to listen to. But a bit too cheesy for my taste, when it comes to the lyrics. (As in the case of San Marino). So in my ranking, it was always a good top 15, but nothing more. The singing was phenomenal and Polina is a great performer. Still, for me it didn't raise so high. I'd say close to top ten, but there were really a lot of great entries this year.

The result would be the same for me... close to a top 10. But it rised from around 20 or so...
My top 10 this year was VERY good!! I have thought 2015 is a really strong year for a long time. That did not change after the live shows.

 

[GRE]

She was overreacting in the Final.
Besides from this,
Polina was in a very difficult situation.
In Vienna she had to face eurofans who don't like Russia because it's a homophobic country.
And back in Russia she had to face the local people who dissaproved the fact she talked with Conchita and said some nice things about her.

 

[ElRuso]

She was overreacting in the Final.
Besides from this,
Polina was in a very difficult situation.
In Vienna she had to face eurofans who don't like Russia because it's a homophobic country.
And back in Russia she had to face the local people who dissaproved the fact she talked with Conchita and said some nice things about her.

Milonov and 0,1% of the population?

 

[Carian]

Well, I suggest you just try it out! Go to a gaypride in Moscow and one in let's say Rome and see what's happening there!

You are mixing things up, which are not comparable. For instance your example with the swedish law. It does NOT forbid to kill the animals in a kosher way. They just have to be anesthetizes. Only extremists use this example to pretend an anti-muslim/jewish attitude. There are several renowned muslim and jewish theologists who have stated that these regulation do NOT violate muslim/jewish faith.
Hungary may for sure have questionable laws, but they did not invade another country and denied it first and then kind of admitted it (like in the russian documentary about the annexation of Crimea).
France was in fact heavily criticized for the expelling (which is NOT the same as deportation!) internationally and they reacted to it.

I give you the point, that countries are judged by different standards sometimes. And you are right that in various european countries (as maybe your example with the anti-russian laws in some baltic states, but sure also in western countries there are issues) there is still a lot to do to improve the situation. But pretending all of your examples are equal is quite a dangerous and also unfair approach.

Rather then suggesting to boo at any country because of a failure which comes to mind, I'd suggest not to boo at ANY country for political reasons.

I haven't argued that all these examples are equal, however, dispensing with them as unequal actually makes my point even more valid. In a way, you are saying that certain acts deserve to be criticize more severely than others. My question is according to whom and what criteria? Anyways, I have only given a list of problematic laws or actions by various European countries that deserved to be boed for they didnt reflect the ideal of "democratic" Europe, of that Europe which is quick to judge Russia (and other countries that purportedly do not meet the standards, set by Western democracies).

But according to reactions of some guys here, I have realized I am not the only one here who feels that way. So, what is my deduction? Although eveyone is trying his best in EBU to cancel the "politics" out from the ESC, in fact, the whole ESC is wholly and entirely about politics. You wanna know what Europeans think about you and your national identity? Well, plug in and watch ESC. Soon you will find it out

 

[Sammy]

I haven't argued that all these examples are equal, however, dispensing with them as unequal actually makes my point even more valid. In a way, you are saying that certain acts deserve to be criticize more severely than others. My question is according to whom and what criteria? Anyways, I have only given a list of problematic laws or actions by various European countries that deserved to be boed for they didnt reflect the ideal of "democratic" Europe, of that Europe which is quick to judge Russia (and other countries that purportedly do not meet the standards, set by Western democracies).

But according to reactions of some guys here, I have realized I am not the only one here who feels that way. So, what is my deduction? Although eveyone is trying his best in EBU to cancel the "politics" out from the ESC, in fact, the whole ESC is wholly and entirely about politics. You wanna know what Europeans think about you and your national identity? Well, plug in and watch ESC. Soon you will find it out

Yes, exactly! Some acts ARE in fact to be criticized more severely than others. The criteria for this would be international law, human rights, philosophical ethics. But I do think, and that's the point where we seem to agree, that the artist that represents a country should not be held responsible for political actions of his/her country.
Therefore, I was sorry for Polina that she was booed, even if I do find the choice of the song (which may not have been her own) a bit .... let's say not ideal.
But I wouldn't go as far as to say it's entirely about politics. If that was the case, Polina would not have got so many points - especially from western countries some of which heavily criticized Russia in politics.

 

[Carian]

Yes, exactly! Some acts ARE in fact to be criticized more severely than others. The criteria for this would be international law, human rights, philosophical ethics. But I do think, and that's the point where we seem to agree, that the artist that represents a country should not be held responsible for political actions of his/her country.
Therefore, I was sorry for Polina that she was booed, even if I do find the choice of the song (which may not have been her own) a bit .... let's say not ideal.
But I wouldn't go as far as to say it's entirely about politics. If that was the case, Polina would not have got so many points - especially from western countries some of which heavily criticized Russia in politics.

Well, as I am entitled to my opinion, so are you. I respect it, but I don't agree with you. I would further discuss this issue, but I am afraid you will take this whole issue to a place I don't want to go here. So I end this debate at this point. See you around Sammy and have fun weekend

 

[Carian]

Milonov and 0,1% of the population?

In my opinion, one can be as gay as he wants in Russia - but only as long as he doesn't talk about it nor advertise it. However, people easily forget that many American celebrities until recently also didn't dare to talk nor advertise their homosexuality. Further, Europeans are forgetting that if we can be as gay as we want in some larger cities or circles that this doesn't mean that it is okay to be gay everywhere in the super democratic Western countries.

So, yes, are one law and a handful of its supporters the face of the whole nation? Moreover, critics here forget that Russia also gave a good deal of points last year to Conchita. And saying that Russia is being hypocritical when sending songs about peace and love to ESC is nothing less hypocritical as listening to peace and love songs sung by British, while they are starting wars or fighting hand in hand with USA... So, how come that only Russians are being judged hypocrits?

And after one week of debate about this political issue here on this forum, I must say I am dead tired of it. Only one thing is sure: last year I was only suspecting some things, this year I have learnt in this forum that I was right. In Europe, we are not all equal: national identities are still strong divisive lines among nations, but the only difference between today and let's say 50 years ago is that these nationalistic divisions are better conceiled.