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Latin America in Eurovision (or Wordvision)

Do you thing that the Latin countries (Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, etc..) should join in Eurovision (o

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popavapeur

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This was true until this year. I had the same "family feeling" but, what can you do? If Australia is allowed to take part, so can the rest of the world. This was really the Pandora's box imo

i really don't feel the pandora's box thing. Australia is -for me, sorry aussies if you think i'm wrong- a big lost Island between countries and micro-countries who don't really have a link with them (except NZ) i don't have a clue about what's going on in Australia right now instead of China or USA even Brazil. The country could be big in size, it's little on an international level for me. Like Little as many others europeans countries taking part. I never felt that australia is so different than the western countries, that's just the young brother/sister who is living far away. Having Australia still make me feel the family thing : they watched the show before, there's nothing new with them except a contestant. Yes because they aren't in the EBU so everybody can join, but no because i don't know another country involved as much as Australia in the contest.
 

tuorem

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Yes because they aren't in the EBU so everybody can join, but no because i don't know another country involved as much as Australia in the contest.

Ok, so provided you express some interest, you're legitimate enough to take part? It's not a coincidence if an EBU spokesperson was trying to know what to do with Canada, China and South Africa as they somehow seem to be interested in Eurovision too.

Let's make it clear :lol: I have nothing against Australia, but I like consistency: if they can, why others couldn't? The EBU knew how to overlook member statuses and geographic criterion to let them in, so that's not even an ethical issue :lol:
 

popavapeur

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[MENTION=9195]tuorem[/MENTION]
i mean there's a slight difference between Australia and China. We all know that Australia watch the show since years (how about China?) we know that since 2007-08 they send commentators on a major tv channel (and i still don't know about China or others countries) and there's a big fan base in Australia.
I don't say there's no fan in China or latin america just if it does exist, i'm not aware of these countries sending commentators, ESC parties in their countries or whatever and i don't know for how long they watch and like the show. (BTW i don't even know if ESC is that huge in Australia but it seems it does if we look at how the host likes to send a hello each year to aussies).

So the things is, if the ESC is popular as it is in Australia (and involved as Australia) i won't say no for a participation. Not just "showing interest" (it take years if you look at how long Australia watch the show)
 

tuorem

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[MENTION=14282]popavapeur[/MENTION]
It's difficult to say, China broadcasts the contest (and so does Canada) and there are probably a bunch of fans there since they've been doing their own ranking for a few years now.
I'm not saying there is the same level of enthusiasm in this country, that would be a lie since I guess most people aren't aware of this event. However, if someday they happened to be willing to take part, I think one should welcome them the same way as Australia if interest is the only thing that counts now.

If Australia didn't participate before, I assume it's because the EBU didn't consider this possibility. I still believe it creates a precedent and for that matter, I'd find it difficult to say no to "extra" countries from now on.
 

Sabiondo

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[MENTION=9195]tuorem[/MENTION]

I don't say there's no fan in China or latin america just if it does exist, i'm not aware of these countries sending commentators, ESC parties in their countries or whatever and i don't know for how long they watch and like the show.

In facebook you can find many Eurovision groups from Latin countries like Argentina, Mexico, Colombia, Peru
and my country group Venezuela

Also we are registred like OGAE ROW and we organized Eurovision parties on the final day. As i said before TVE & RTP have almost 20 years telecasting Eurovision for Latin Countries (as well FRTV2 and AVROTROS do for their colonies in the Caribbean sea) and if :au: can join in Eurovision despite their distance (But their money & telecasting history had weight) then the Latin countries like the mie for example can join in ESC in the future, if one of our public TV stations (for example) applies for EBU non associated membership as Australia done and send our own commentators.

After all Eurovision is becoming very popular here in the Latin American countries because the variety of songs, cultures and because we can watch it in a early time than the Aussies or the own European people as well :lol: (for not mention the historical European connection for over 500 years).

If ever join, could do a huge musical contribution to the festival with our Latin Rhythms (Salsa, Merengue, Regeaton, Samba, Cumbia...) to sake European asses as well. :lol:
 

Krishoes

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Why not, Tv Cultura in :br: and Canal 13 in :cl: are EBU's associate members just like SBS in :au:... :mrgreen:

However, I really don't know how to feel about if Latin Americans nations will join the Eurovision :D
 

ParadiseES

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Hypocrisy at its best ;)

It's hilarious how most of the people who are so against are British and they seemed to be so happy with Australia joinning (we all know why ;)). And there are even some pseudo-racist comments banning certain countries to take part (like Argentina).

I don't want them to take part. I want Eurovision to remain as EUROvision. But if Australia is joinning EBU has no reasons to avoid this. That's the mess they did. And rejecting them to take part has a name ;)
 

ParadiseES

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Some people can't undestand that in the same way Australia-New Zealand-Canada-USA are connected with UK,
Latin American countries are connected with Spain & Portugal.

Ignorance ;)
 

ParadiseES

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There are four countries in the world which can be termed "European" but, that are actually well away from the continent - Australia, New Zealand, the United States and Canada. If they ever got independence, you can add Quebec and Greenland to those two as well.

What makes you European is to be part of Europe, not the colonial past. Otherwise all the colonies should count the same. :uk: is not > everyone else ;)
 

tuorem

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I don't want them to take part. I want Eurovision to remain as EUROvision. But if Australia is joinning EBU has no reasons to avoid this. That's the mess they did. And rejecting them to take part has a name ;)

Thank you for rewording my thoughts exactly.
 

MyHeartIsYours

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What makes you European is to be part of Europe, not the colonial past. Otherwise all the colonies should count the same. :uk: is not > everyone else ;)
No because I've specifically singled out four countries that are special cases. If I said yes Jamaica, India and Kenya should participate but not Brazil, Mexico and Argentina, then yes, you would have a valid argument. But I didn't say those three (or any others) should participate because while they have some elements of British (and therefore European) culture, they do not have enough of it to warrant participation in a European contest.

South Africa has a fair bit of Dutch/British culture, about as much as Latin America has Spanish/Portuguese culture. But again I don't call for South African participation because it doesn't have enough European culture. So I will object to Latin American participation too.

Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States are different because their culture is as much European as any European state (in fact probably even more so given mass immigration into Europe). The only way in which they are not "European" is by their geographic location. I don't believe that to be an argument against their participation however. And as I said, if they ever got independence I would call for Quebec and Greenland to participate too, so it's not just me calling for Anglosphere states as you're trying to make out ;).
 

ParadiseES

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No because I've specifically singled out four countries that are special cases. If I said yes Jamaica, India and Kenya should participate but not Brazil, Mexico and Argentina, then yes, you would have a valid argument. But I didn't say those three (or any others) should participate because while they have some elements of British (and therefore European) culture, they do not have enough of it to warrant participation in a European contest.

South Africa has a fair bit of Dutch/British culture, about as much as Latin America has Spanish/Portuguese culture. But again I don't call for South African participation because it doesn't have enough European culture. So I will object to Latin American participation too.

Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States are different because their culture is as much European as any European state (in fact probably even more so given mass immigration into Europe). The only way in which they are not "European" is by their geographic location. I don't believe that to be an argument against their participation however. And as I said, if they ever got independence I would call for Quebec and Greenland to participate too, so it's not just me calling for Anglosphere states as you're trying to make out ;).

1- You prove you know nothing about Latin America (and I'd say about the USA as well).

2- Eurovision is not about cultural ties.
 

MyHeartIsYours

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1- You prove you know nothing about Latin America (and I'd say about the USA as well).

2- Eurovision is not about cultural ties.
1) The United States - yes I know that is flooded with immigrants but its culture is still exclusively European. Personally I'd rather the Americans didn't participate, but I think they should be able to if they ever wanted to do so. Latin America - if you can prove to me that it is more Spanish/Portuguese culturally than South Africa is Dutch/British, I'm willing to learn and change my mind ;)
2) Then what is it about?
 

Sabiondo

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Hypocrisy at its best ;)

It's hilarious how most of the people who are so against are British and they seemed to be so happy with Australia joinning (we all know why ;)). And there are even some pseudo-racist comments banning certain countries to take part (like Argentina).

I don't want them to take part. I want Eurovision to remain as EUROvision. But if Australia is joinning EBU has no reasons to avoid this. That's the mess they did. And rejecting them to take part has a name ;)

Yeahh some people has double standards when integration comes. If sure that :uk: will want soon to put almost their Commonwealth competing in EUROvision ( or Worldvision) as they believed that have the exclusive right do it.
 

Sabiondo

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South Africa has a fair bit of Dutch/British culture, about as much as Latin America has Spanish/Portuguese culture. But again I don't call for South African participation because it doesn't have enough European culture. So I will object to Latin American participation too.

[MENTION=13133]aardvark[/MENTION] Look this..!!
 

MyHeartIsYours

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Yeahh some people has double standards when integration comes. If sure that :uk: will want soon to put almost their Commonwealth competing in EUROvision ( or Worldvision) as they believed that have the exclusive right do it.
The Commonwealth has 53 member states, 4 of whom already participate in Eurovision. Im calling for the addition of 2 more - 1 of whom has already participated in a Eurovision contest in the past. Im sure you wont die.

[MENTION=13133]aardvark[/MENTION] Look this..!!
I know what you're doing here but it wont work ;) Im sure that aardvark has enough respect for other people's opinions to see that not wanting South Africa to participate is not some sort of slight against his country.

I would still like to know why you bothered creating a thread if you simply want people to agree with you? A thread is supposed to be for people to put their varying opinion's across, not just agree with the author of the original post.
 

aardvark

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WOW! How easy it is to be drawn into an argument unwittingly!

So, ok, since you asked here are my opinions on the matter:

Personally, I don't have any opinions on allowing more non-European countries in or leaving them out. Let the powers that be decide, and I'll be fine with the decision. I'm willing to go with the flow and enjoy whatever situation presents itself in future. However, I can't see a situation where an unlimited number of countries are allowed to enter, simply because the competition will become too big and unmanageable. Perhaps, if there is enough demand, it would then be a good idea to have a Worldvision competition running parallel to but separately from Eurovision. The problem is that allowing Australia in has opened up a can of worms now, because, as predicted, if one non-European country is allowed, it would be terribly unfair to deny another.

MHYI, this time I'm calling you out. This thing about 4 non-European countries being culturally European and all others not is rubbish. The problem is that where do you draw this imaginary line to decide which countries are European enough, and which are not. It is simply not possible. It is also very unfortunate that you have chosen 4 countries in the British realm as the anointed ones. The influences, ties and general feeling of togetherness between e.g. Argentina and Spain (and Italy) or Brazil and Portugal, I can assure you, are in no means inferior the the 4 countries you have selected. You see the problem really is that there is no way to distinguish which countries are more or less "culturally European." Does a certain percentage of the population have to speak a European language? Because almost all of Latin America speaks Spanish or Portuguese? Does a certain percentage of the population have to be white Europeans? Because that would be plain racist. Do they have to be in the British realm? Exactly how do you measure and determine cultural closeness?

Furthermore, regardless of their assumed cultural similarities NONE of these 4 countries are in fact European, and no amount of wishing, hoping and argumenting will ever convince me otherwise.

And as far as South Africa goes, let me try to explain a few things: One of the nations living in South Africa is the Afrikaners, of which I am a prime example. We derive from Western European settlers (mostly Dutch, German and French) that arrived here between 1652 and about 1820. Our language is Afrikaans, which is derived from Dutch, as it developed and changed on African soil over the course of 350 years. By about 1900 the Dutch language had changed so much that it wasn't Dutch anymore, and the Afrikaans language was finally recognised in the 1920's. The Afrikaners are as lily-white as any European and still follow many European traditions and customs. However, have no illusions, we are an African people, born and bred on African soil. Apart from the Afrikaners, there are also people of British descent, who arrived from about 1800 onwards. They retained their language and culture and in most cases did not "Africanise". Both these groups together form the white/European portion of the South African population, which currently comprise only about 8% of the total South African population. So it should be clear from this that while there are some people with European customs/ties in South Africa, we are an African country by definition.

As for possible future South African participation in Eurovision: I'm not sure where these rumors about interest are coming from, but it sounds like somebody has been eating too many herb-flavored cookies. Let me say it loud and clear- IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Firstly, the amount of Eurovision fans in South Africa are probably between 9 and 11. Close to nobody has ever heard of it. It has never been broadcast in South Africa. (We get Dutch/Portuguese/Italian etc. channels on Satellite TV, and I have watched it there, though.) Furthermore, our government (and the broadcaster, the SABC, as a semi-government institution by implication) absolutely despises anything they deem to be "Eurocentric". They are laboring very hard to promote an "Afrocentric" agenda, and they won't touch anything that is not "Afrocentric" enough. Something like Eurovision will never ever ever be considered. Just think how much pres. Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe hates Europe and the UK, turn it down half a notch, and you have the South African government and their puppet broadcaster. They will rather sleep on a bed of 1000 poisonous snakes than get involved with Eurovision. So you don't have to worry, we will not be joining Eurovision anytime in this century.
 

ParadiseES

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1) The United States - yes I know that is flooded with immigrants but its culture is still exclusively European. Personally I'd rather the Americans didn't participate, but I think they should be able to if they ever wanted to do so. Latin America - if you can prove to me that it is more Spanish/Portuguese culturally than South Africa is Dutch/British, I'm willing to learn and change my mind ;)
2) Then what is it about?

1) The fact that they are rich and developed doesn't make them Europeans.

2) Is is about countries from the same continent sharing their music. No matter if their cultural ties are strong or not.
 
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